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Old 09-27-2012, 06:21 PM
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Birdtricks

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Hi guys, first off-my apologies if this question has been asked before, but there are A LOT of threads on this forum also wasn't realy sure what topic to post it under but sure anywayz...

Does anyone here have experience with birdtricks products? I can only find very conflicting reviews about them, ranging from over the moon excited people to biggest scam on the internet... Was thinking of getting the dvd's off them but id like to find out more about them from some genuine experiences.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:30 PM
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Re: Birdtricks

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Check the above link. That is every thread that has the "birdtricks" name it it. Enjoy the read.

My personal experience is they are great people who love their birds. If you're looking at getting one of their training vids, they are very expensive and it is likely the same info you can find online.

Some people will say they are only in it for the money and are using improper methods of training but no one has shown me in writing where there are doing anything wrong. Do your reading and make your own judgment call.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:47 PM
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Re: Birdtricks

ask 10 people and you will probably get 10 different responses~ I like to read and watch everything, then I can take and use the parts I want to, I recently got one of their videos and liked it very much~ the only problem is you get tons of emails from them, some helpful, others not
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:49 PM
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Re: Birdtricks

I've never bought any of their DVD's, but I do have some experience.
  • Flooding - Much of their old DVD's used to rely on flooding techniques, that is, you force your bird to endure something that they do not like until they accept it. Flooding may lead to worse behaviors, not better. They are supposedly training via Positive Reinforcement now, however I can't verify this, nor whether or not they are still using the flooding techniques.
  • E-mail - If you got on their e-mail list, you would get flooded with "spam" telling you to buy this, or to buy that and telling you about all these great training techniques. Very annoying.
  • Marketing - They used to have a video of them "barreling over cliffs" and "swimming with sharks". Sounded real scary and daring! Watch the video? They were in a helicopter flying over cliffs over the ocean. Sharks? Black tipped reef sharks. Danger to humans? Extremely low. Probably about as dangerous as nurse sharks are to humans. Not impressed.
  • Website - On their website, they had/have these testimonials all over the site of how great their training is. Sometimes, if you compared the testimonials, they read the EXACT SAME!!! The differences? The species of the bird and the photo provided by the supposed person who sent in the testimonial. Everything else pretty much read the same, including the birds name.


I have heard that well respected trainers scoff at the Womach Brothers. I'm sure they (Womach brothers) love their birds! I don't doubt that! And I don't doubt that they want to help enrich the lives of pet parrots! But I simply cannot agree with the things that I've seen.


From Parrot & Bird Training Terminology | Good Bird Training

Quote:
Flooding: A process of teaching an animal to cope with a situation it fears. The process is generally traumatic and relentless. The animal learns nothing it does will change the outcome and learns to submit or tolerate the situation. Not recommended!
Example of flooding:
Everyday a Quaker parrot is required to be moved from one location to another. The bird does not step up voluntarily. It is decided the bird must be moved and the bird is chased with a towel until the parrot is captured. This is repeated two times daily to move the bird inside and outside. Eventually the bird stops running away from the towel and freezes when it sees the towel. This allows the bird to be captured easily.

Learned Helplessness: The result of flooding procedures. Parrots learn nothing they do can influence the outcome and give up. Not recommended!

Don’t Fall for Deceptive Bird Training Tricks – Guest Post by Sid Price of Avian Ambassadors Best in Flock – Parrot Blog
The Real Secrets of Training Success and Where to Find Them Bird Training Blog

Couple of Q&A's on flooding specifically
The depressed bird - ParrotChronicles Why Does My Bird Do That? Q&A
Teaching your parrot to "step up" - ParrotChronicles Why Does My Bird Do That? Q&A



When I recommend Barbara Heidenreich, Susan Friedman, Melinda Johnson and Karen Pryor, I really can't recommend them enough! And that's not to mention the other great trainers out there such as Steve Martin, Jim McKendry, Sid Price, etc!

Last edited by MonicaMc; 09-29-2012 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:46 AM
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Re: Birdtricks

Thank you so much Monica! very helpfull
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:41 AM
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Re: Birdtricks

I contacted Bird Tricks ONCE. Since then I have been bombarded by hundreds of annoying "in your face" spam with no Unsubscribe.
Whatever you do don't email them. These are very persistent and annoying people.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:28 AM
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Re: Birdtricks

They love to spam and thier positive reinforcement disappears when they're off camera so they pretty much torture the birds til they give in. Some things in thier videos seem a little helpful, but I wouldn't say much. You may want to contact Chris Brio for any trainng help. He teaches freeflight training, but he is a very wonderful advice willing to give you nay help you need nd he actually trained BirdTricks first bird- an african grey.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:55 PM
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Re: Birdtricks

I have not heard of them abusing their birds. The worse thing, besides stealing other trainers teaching techniques (as in, getting some training sessions, but not taking a course on it to really understand what they are doing) is food deprivation. That is, starving the birds so that they'll work for food.

The truth of the matter is, a bird who isn't hungry is less likely to work for treats than a bird that is. That doesn't mean you have to starve your bird, only work out a meal plan that will allow a time and place for food rewards to be used with your bird.


Speaking of Chris Biro.... another article that may be worth reading in regards to Birdtricks training... as well as another one I came across.
birdtricksters.com | LibertyWings.com
Is Chet Womach a Clicker Trainer? (Updated 6/08) | Karen Pryor Clickertraining


I probably should go out and buy all of Birdtricks *current* DVD's that they are selling, however I don't have that kind of money. If I did, I might have a different opinion of them, if things have changed since a few years ago. I say this, because they willingly admitted their mistake in their training courses - which goes back to who taught them originally.
Flooding - A Bad Parrot Training Technique
Parrot training videos? (last comment)


All-in-all though, I would have to say it would be better to go with a well respected trainer. Maybe someday the Womach brothers can be included within this group!



Rana, I'm glad that the information was helpful! I don't like putting Birdtricks down, but if they are still using flooding techniques, or marketing flooding techniques, I just can't recommend them... and it's easy to get just as good advice and better from other trainers for less!
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:13 AM
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I use birdtricks all the time great customer service,great products never had a problem,I just ordered there new DVDs that just came out recently I own every training DVD they own from the taming training and tricks I use there monthly bird toys program before and I also use there bird food , I also used there monthly parrot subscription but had to stop do to monthly bills other then that I will still be using that program but there food and toys are a monthly thin for me I really recomed to anybody.

Henry
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:30 AM
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Just wanna clear something up they stress a lot not to starve your bird but you need to get him slightly hungry so he can accept treats like u if your full are u going to get more?no your gonna need space that's what they suggest u do,another the email back in the days where annoying but they stopped all the good info goes into there blog now birdtricks.com/blog they email every now and then but you can tell them to stop sending you emails and they will,I have seen Dave womach and his wife in person with there birds and the birds are more spoiled then a only child...they even got a great cook book out just for birds.im not sure about the stealing training techniques but let me put it like this There are only a few ways to train a bird,how else can u train a bird (do u clicker train,target train)? Does this mean your stealing the techniques???? Who invented the clicker trainer ? Does that mean everyone else stole from him or he have it to the public to use? Another thing we all make mistakes it just takes a few to admit it and they do if you want go check around eBay or amazon or even there website I believe there old DVDs aren't for sale anymore because of the mistakes made but you can get your hand on them if u wanna check it out I have a flight traning DVD from them that sells for about 50 bucks I believe I will sell it for 25 its brand new never been opened enjoy
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