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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 07:29 AM
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Re: My perspective on my birds lives

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Quote: Originally Posted by EllenD View Post

I only posted my story to make a point ParrotLover2001, again you have taken it as an attack against you. The point I was trying to make to you, or multiple points, have apparently just gone right over your head once again. You need to not make assumptions about how other people feel, what other people have gone through, and most importantly you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself because it gets you nowhere and only makes things worse for yourself. I also had to learn that lesson because I too would just keep asking why this was happening to me. I told people that they couldn't possibly understand what I was going through and that my pain was far above anything that they had ever possibly felt. That is until I was in the hospital and saw 5 year olds undergoing chemotherapy and their parents losing their homes, cars, everything they owned because they had to stop working to take care of their sick child. There's nothing that will kick you in the butt faster than watching a young child that is dealing with a fatal disease. I was also trying to make you see what is important, and it's not you keeping pets that you cannot be responsible for in order to make yourself feel better with total disregard for their well-being. I too thought I deserved to be able to keep my pets while I was going through hard times, after all that is when I needed them the most. But then I thought "What will I do if one of the birds get sick? What if one of the dogs hurts itself? How will I even get them their shots?" In essence I had to say to myself "Yes, my pets are my family and they do make me feel better, and I do deserve to be able to keep them. However, they deserve to be secure, healthy, and happy. Their well-being should not be second to my feelings". And my pets had never had any horrible accidents or been in a home where other people were purposely trying to harm them or kill them. I decided to put their lives and their needs above my own, even though I was going through hell and back myself. The ability to put others that you care about before yourself is something that comes with maturity and life experience.

I think the bottom line in your situation is that if you add up all of the reasons you cannot be responsible for taking care of your birds, all of the things that you cannot control being your age, it's a very long list of valid reasons you should not have pets right now, but these reasons combined aren't the main reason you shouldn't have them. Not being able to financially afford their medical care, not always having that support from your parents with whom you live with, having siblings constantly out to hurt and kill them and your parents seemingly not trying to stop them, all of these reasons should be more than enough for you to say to yourself "Wow, I really have had a lot happen to my birds, I've had more than a couple die for various reasons, they are in danger all the time and I can't afford to get them help when these things happen...I really should get them into responsible, loving homes, because I really do love them and want what is best for them". And still these are not the main reason you shouldn't have any pets that must rely upon you for their well-being right now, but rather the fact that you need to learn to be responsible for yourself first. If you can't take care of yourself, how in the world can you take care of another living creature, let alone 4?

You need to work on yourself for a while, work on growing up, maturing, and not only learning how to be in control of your own life but be able to control it without depending on anyone else financially and otherwise. I too commend you for getting a part-time job, which is certainly the most you can handle while doing school work and everything else a teenager has going on. But I commend you more for finally being a responsible person and actually doing something that is good for your birds rather than doing what is good for you or what you want. Getting your 4 birds into homes that can take care of them, provide for them, and keep them safe and out of harm's way is not only the responsible thing to do, but it's a big step towards maturity. For the first time you'd be putting yourself second and the lives of the creatures who depend on you first. That's a big deal.



"Dance like nobody's watching..."


I haven't taken it as an attack. Where did I say that?
Anyway, you might not like this but, my friends can only foster them until June 3rd. The one fostering Jordan will only foster until May 19th.
I said on TC that my friend will be able to foster the budgies and Elvis for a year, but she can't anymore. Her parents are hoping to move by Fall, so I'll end up with my birds again. Nothing to worry about now though, that's June.
Also, I wasn't going to foster out Jordan because I moved into the basement back on Friday, but my crush came over yesterday (he's the one fostering her) and said that he could take her in, so I let him take Jordan.
1 down, 3 to go.
Does anyone think they could help me with advise before I get them back? If so I'll start a new thread.



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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:04 PM
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Re: My perspective on my birds lives

Saw all of this coming. Grow up. That's my advice.

Sorry to be hostile, but I'm done giving you attention. Have a nice day.


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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 01:47 PM
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Re: My perspective on my birds lives

I'm sorry but is your 'crush' and your friends even familiar with birds? I think you mentioned one of your friends having a flock of her own that were sick but other than that there have been absolutely no mentions of the people who will be fostering this birds for at least a couple months having any knowledge about birds what so ever.

The only somewhat mature thing I've seen you do regarding your birds so far have been in the YouTube comments on one of your videos where you said you didn't need to foster your birds yet but still will to make sure the basement is safe first. Which is really good, congratulations!

You never directly said you took what we've been saying as attacks but you certainly implied it.

Quote:
I don't get it, I've got them ready to go to a new home and this is what I get?
In addition I'd like to say, THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU. This is a bird forum, we help advise people on BIRDS making sure the owner is responsible and keeps the birds safe and healthy and happy.

Last edited by Owlet; 03-20-2017 at 01:53 PM.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:23 PM
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Re: My perspective on my birds lives

Quote: Originally Posted by Owlet View Post
I'm sorry but is your 'crush' and your friends even familiar with birds? I think you mentioned one of your friends having a flock of her own that were sick but other than that there have been absolutely no mentions of the people who will be fostering this birds for at least a couple months having any knowledge about birds what so ever.

The only somewhat mature thing I've seen you do regarding your birds so far have been in the YouTube comments on one of your videos where you said you didn't need to foster your birds yet but still will to make sure the basement is safe first. Which is really good, congratulations!

You never directly said you took what we've been saying as attacks but you certainly implied it.

Quote:
I don't get it, I've got them ready to go to a new home and this is what I get?
In addition I'd like to say, THIS ISN'T ABOUT YOU. This is a bird forum, we help advise people on BIRDS making sure the owner is responsible and keeps the birds safe and healthy and happy.


Yes, my crush as his own lovebird pair, which he's had for 7 years. I trust him with Jordan.

Sorry about the whole "thinking there attacks" thing. Didn't mean to.

And yes I know this is a bird forum. That's why I joined.


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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:27 PM
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Re: My perspective on my birds lives

Also, I'll try to be a bit more mature and make better decisions.
I understand everyone is just worried about the health and wellbeing of the birds, and I hope that one day this whole thing will be forgiven and forgotten.




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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 11:23 PM
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Re: My perspective on my birds lives

I don't really want to comment on this publicly, since it's weighing in on a topic with a background which apparently precedes me. But for some reason I need 20 posts before I can use the PM function, the highest threshold of any forum I've been on. I think I won't have that for a couple days and wanted to comment on this ASAP. So I'm rewriting what was meant to be a short PM to a longer, hopefully more nuanced, post.

First off, I'm new here and haven't read all the other threads which other people are commenting on. It's possible that you were being unreasonable in those threads, but I understand where you're coming from. From this thread, your situation seems to combine the two worst parts of my experience with birds: when I was 11-12 and playing varying roles in the deaths of three birds, and when I was 23 and had to decide whether to give my remaining birds up.

But even based on this thread alone I agree to some extent with what other people have been saying, particularly that making decisions based on what annoys your parents is immature. That's not something I would have ever done regarding my birds on my worst day, but then I realize I'm also fortunate to have a good relationship with both my parents. (And once my parents agreed to let me have birds, they took on the financial responsibility for everything except toys, and never stinted on vet visits. It sounds like you may not be so fortunate, and I can understand being frustrated.)

I don't think making mistakes disqualifies you from having birds; were the case, I would have been disqualified from having birds three times over in my first year and a half. I also don't think it's wrong to let what's best for you play a role in your decisions about the birds, as long as it's not a truly terrible decision. I don't think either having people watch them for a period or rehoming them are terrible for the birds, but it sounds like you really don't want to give them up. However if you want to keep your birds I do think it's important that you can take responsibility for your own mistakes (even if other people may also have played a role), and make an active effort to learn to avid such mistakes in the future.

I understand the position you're in, and if I was in your position I wouldn't want to give up my birds either. I initially made plans to bring my birds with me when I became established abroad, then when it became clear that getting established would take an indefinite amount of time (and ultimately didn't happen), I gave up my last two birds believing it was best for them. While it felt like the right thing at a time, I worry now that the retiree I gave them to died or became incapacitated soon after he got them (since he stopped sending updates suddenly and hasn't responded to any of my emails), in which case who knows where they are now, particularly the Senegal who should have a good 10-15 years left to live if he's being cared for properly, which is not guaranteed even if he's still with the retired guy I gave him to and is even less likely if he isn't.

What's not clear to me from your posts is why you need to give your birds up for fostering, how long that will be, and how long each person can watch them. I assume this was discussed on other threads?

The people who said that shifting through a lot of foster homes will be stressful are right, however rehoming your birds doesn't guarantee them a "forever home," whereas hopefully you will be able to provide that yourself once you're on your feet. You're right that I don't know you, but I'm certainly sympathetic and I'm not going to suggest you give you birds up unless you seem clearly incapable of caring for them and unwilling to learn. (Like, I seem to recall a guy on Craigslist rehoming an eclectus whom he mentioned loved a variety of human junk food which parrots should never be eating; that bird was headed for an early grave. Since in my experience people who feed junk food to animals get very defensive when you tell them not to, I was very glad to see he was giving him up.)

I wanted to let you know that while I do agree with posters here that some of your decision-making is questionable, I think you do care about your birds and I think I have some inkling of where you're coming from. I wish you the best whatever you decide, and I hope that if you decide to keep them you make an effort to address the issues which other posters have apparently raised. I've messed up in the past severely myself, and I the best way to address it is to take responsibility, figure out how to prevent it in the future, and redouble your efforts to determine if there's any other mistakes which you're still making, which is something that both this forum and your vet can hep you with.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:26 AM
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Re: My perspective on my birds lives

So I posted my previous post and then went through your post history. I should have done the reverse, but I joined this forum after leaving another forum where I thought people were attacking me unreasonably, and it took far less time than this thread has lasted. I was concerned you might do the same here; even though it looks like you've been here awhile, it also looks like your relations with people here have become increasingly strained and I wasn't sure when you might decide you'd had enough. I want to stress that unlike on the forum I joined, I get the impression most people here do want what's best for your birds, and not for the sake of feeling superior.

It looks like what has people concerned is that you have a cat and siblings who are trying to kill your birds, and your reactions to them have been rather more defeatist than ours would be. You couldn't go more than an hour to find an emergency vet when your budgie was attacked by your cat; you put your birds in a cardboard box overnight when a sibling attacked your birds with MiracleGro. On one hand, you're a kid and not being 15 anymore I can't put myself into my mindset then, but on the other hand I'm fairly certain my instincts were better than that even at that point. However I got that way partially because after I lost my third bird (after a year where I hadn't lost any), I asked my vet a lot of questions, and he instilled a sense of paranoia that urgent action is required whenever a parrot seems ill. It's possible that I would have reacted much as you did if those early experiences and conversations with the vet hadn't taught me that parrots are delicate, and action can't wait.

It's unfortunate that you don't like any of your vets, because your vet and not an internet forum should be your first resort when things go wrong. Can you not find a vet who has a bird of their own and is likely to be sensitive to their needs and yours? It also sounds like your delay in taking your birds to the vet isn't that you can't afford them, but that your parents are reluctant to take you, preferring a "wait-and-see" attitude. My father was like this initially but I was able to get around it by having my mother take me in emergencies. If both of your parents are ignorant about the importance of early treatment with birds, you need to educate them.

As for the issue in the OP; I get the impression you're only thinking of fostering your birds out until you get the basement set up? I understand now why you're trying to move to the basement. That sounds like a better solution than rehoming, and I wouldn't be as concerned about mold in Maine (I'm from Massachusetts originally, and we never had a mold problem in the basement), as I would further south. What I would be concerned about how much natural light your birds will get. Unless it's one of those basements which is a walkout on one side; I'd suggest getting a full-spectrum light if you're going to live there and keep your birds with you there, as well as asking the vet what they think.
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 07:37 AM
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Re: My perspective on my birds lives

Quote: Originally Posted by gavagai View Post
So I posted my previous post and then went through your post history. I should have done the reverse, but I joined this forum after leaving another forum where I thought people were attacking me unreasonably, and it took far less time than this thread has lasted. I was concerned you might do the same here; even though it looks like you've been here awhile, it also looks like your relations with people here have become increasingly strained and I wasn't sure when you might decide you'd had enough. I want to stress that unlike on the forum I joined, I get the impression most people here do want what's best for your birds, and not for the sake of feeling superior.

It looks like what has people concerned is that you have a cat and siblings who are trying to kill your birds, and your reactions to them have been rather more defeatist than ours would be. You couldn't go more than an hour to find an emergency vet when your budgie was attacked by your cat; you put your birds in a cardboard box overnight when a sibling attacked your birds with MiracleGro. On one hand, you're a kid and not being 15 anymore I can't put myself into my mindset then, but on the other hand I'm fairly certain my instincts were better than that even at that point. However I got that way partially because after I lost my third bird (after a year where I hadn't lost any), I asked my vet a lot of questions, and he instilled a sense of paranoia that urgent action is required whenever a parrot seems ill. It's possible that I would have reacted much as you did if those early experiences and conversations with the vet hadn't taught me that parrots are delicate, and action can't wait.

It's unfortunate that you don't like any of your vets, because your vet and not an internet forum should be your first resort when things go wrong. Can you not find a vet who has a bird of their own and is likely to be sensitive to their needs and yours? It also sounds like your delay in taking your birds to the vet isn't that you can't afford them, but that your parents are reluctant to take you, preferring a "wait-and-see" attitude. My father was like this initially but I was able to get around it by having my mother take me in emergencies. If both of your parents are ignorant about the importance of early treatment with birds, you need to educate them.

As for the issue in the OP; I get the impression you're only thinking of fostering your birds out until you get the basement set up? I understand now why you're trying to move to the basement. That sounds like a better solution than rehoming, and I wouldn't be as concerned about mold in Maine (I'm from Massachusetts originally, and we never had a mold problem in the basement), as I would further south. What I would be concerned about how much natural light your birds will get. Unless it's one of those basements which is a walkout on one side; I'd suggest getting a full-spectrum light if you're going to live there and keep your birds with you there, as well as asking the vet what they think.



You are very understanding. I like that.
Anywho, no mold, lots of light, seems like we never left the second floor.
I have them in the kitchen (because of the hard wood floor. (It's an in-law apartment)) and there are a couple Windows and a double glass door (outside door) so they get plenty of light.
It's very hard to find bird vets around here, it's not a "wait and see" thing, more like a "when we have time" thing. My parents are always busy, and the fact dad was on-call that week made it even more difficult to get out of the house (he had to go to work Saturday, so I took them Sunday). It's my mom who thinks bird are just a cheap, dirty, disposal, replaceable animal, she thought I could just get a new one if they die, so I had to get dad to take me to the emergency vet.


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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:52 AM
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Re: My perspective on my birds lives

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as one of your birds was dying, instead of seeking vet care, did you not go out and buy another bird with your grandfather? (:

You know. Like something cheap, dirty, and replaceable.


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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:55 AM
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My perspective on my birds lives

I do not like how... responding to you makes me act. I do not like the anger or hostility that I feel when I think about you or the animals under your care. I keep thinking it best that I just leave you alone to deal with your own mistakes, but I feel like you still NEED to blame someone else. Your mom, no wait your siblings, no wait your dad. I so desperately want you to hold yourself accountable, but of course that won't happen if you refuse to be.

But of course I just don't understand right.


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