Leg Chains :(

charmedbyekkie

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Just needed a place to say how sad I am that, where I live, it's culturally acceptable and, to a certain extent, expected that people use leg chains on their birds.

For the longest time, I just tried to tell myself, "I won't do that, but it's not my place to comment on another culture."

Until today, when I saw in a local Facebook that somebody was so annoyed their B&G macaw was opening his/her leg chain, and everybody was recommending to use a padlock "like [they] do." A PADLOCK. ON THE LEG. Yes, they did say to get a small, lightweight padlock. BUT A F*ING PADLOCK?!

I'm so upset just to read about it. And the people promoting this practice are the main people in charge of the majority of the parrot groups (both on social media and off) in this place.

It's almost a greater push for me to adopt an ekkie locally. Just save one bird from a person 'giving up the hobby.' Give him proper food and space and freedom.

Argh, I'm just so sad :(
 

ChristaNL

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It is shocking this is still done to parrots. :eek: :mad:



Even back in the days when we did not much in the way of prevention of cruelty to animals it is one of the first things that got BANNED.
Not just because we cared so much about parrots in general but also because they kept breaking and dislocating their leggs and that was just too expensive...
(We dutch are very practical - if you lose money on something, do something else. Sometimes finances are a better incentive for change than just 'being civilized'.)


Parrots are not like birds of prey- who use their far sturdier legs for hunting, fighting etc. and also seldom gnaw through the leathers which make up their jesses.
(Leather is a lot friendlier on legs than metal anyway...)
So it is very stupid to think what works for one group of animals also works for another.


Sorry you have to deal with this - maybe someday soon people will come to their senses...
 

wrench13

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In Asia this is very very common way of restraining parrots outside on t-stands. I saw this at the Hong Kong Bird mart, where out of 20 or so parrots 19 were leg chained, and one was in harness. Several had no restrains and so one may guess they are recalled trained, but by far most had leg chains.
 

MonicaMc

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I am not for chains *AT ALL*, but here's a a different perspective....


Cages are 'ugly'. Putting a bird in a cage is like putting them in jail. How can you appreciate the beauty of a bird when they are behind cage bars?

Chaining them to a perch allows you to fully appreciate their beauty and allows you to be able to better interact with them without bars present.
 

LordTriggs

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see that's funny Monica regardin Cages being 'ugly' maybe I'm weird but I like cages, I think given more effort than none at all cages can look really nice with perches and toys for birdies. I didn't even like to call rio's cage a cage though cause it wasn't that. It was his room, not somewhere to entrap him but a place for his toys, to sleep and to be safe when I wasn't home
 
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charmedbyekkie

charmedbyekkie

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In Asia this is very very common way of restraining parrots outside on t-stands. I saw this at the Hong Kong Bird mart, where out of 20 or so parrots 19 were leg chained, and one was in harness. Several had no restrains and so one may guess they are recalled trained, but by far most had leg chains.

Yeah, I'm in a country with the same heritage as HKers and half of my family hails from the same background, so I'm familiar with what you're describing :). The other side of my family is completely Western, grown up in the countryside with all sorts of critters - domesticated and wild; I was raised in that same environment and belief system.

So while I can accept leg chains and tiny cages as just how life works here, I grapple with the mentality that comes with it. I still struggle to empathise with my Asian relatives where traditionally animals are completely below humans - family dogs casually rehomed to prevent scratches on the new flooring, 'defective' birds nonchalantly tossed aside because they've lost their 'value' (both true accounts). The implication of a padlock on a leg that can easily snap just reminds me how different/foreign I am here as someone who prefers non-human company.

Luckily the younger generation is more considerate towards animals, with a focus on dogs and cats. But I'm hoping that soon birds will be included in their thoughts :)
 
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charmedbyekkie

charmedbyekkie

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I am not for chains *AT ALL*, but here's a a different perspective....


Cages are 'ugly'. Putting a bird in a cage is like putting them in jail. How can you appreciate the beauty of a bird when they are behind cage bars?

Chaining them to a perch allows you to fully appreciate their beauty and allows you to be able to better interact with them without bars present.

I get what you're saying - and THANK YOU!!! for taking the time to think from the other side :) It means a lot to me to see it happening (multicultural kid things?).

It's just that where I live, birds are chained while even in their own house.. Yeah, like in their owner's bedroom and chained to a metal t-stand with no toys in sight (I've seen enough photos posted from these folks :( even the tiny cages have at most one toy if at all). They're almost expected to be statues that amuse by imitating human language. In fact, this person mentioned that the macaw was chained to prevent any damage to the house (not for the macaw's own safety).
 

dhraiden

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Definitely a difference in cultural perception that is quite upsetting to ponder when I see it on display in my travels to Southeast Asia. I remember seeing a small falcon in Saigon who was chained like that. On the one hand, maybe it might've been sick/injured/died in the wild. On the other, maybe it was just found as a fledgling and deliberately kept like that for entertainment. It's not a mindset that will change immediately any time soon...maybe with the slow introduction of Western-style mores, but that will bring its own issues.
 

MonicaMc

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I'm mixed blood/Heinz 57, although I do have 1/8th Filipino in me... and nothing from the full blooded Filipino relative was passed down through the generations. (lets just say... something along the lines of the milkman's child! ;) ) In some ways, that makes me sad, in others, I'm grateful. (I don't like fish... or pigs blood...)

What I have learned through the years with speaking with people from Asian countries though is that they can have a very different thought perspective. This could be good or it could be bad, depending on situation. I know many don't mean any harm, but it's a cultural thing. Just the way things are done. I know that lovebirds are often called budgies or parakeets, which has lead to a few confusion posts when someone asks if their lovebird can mate with their budgie/parakeet, then says it happens and some chicks look more like "mom" and others look more like 'dad'.

That difference in perspective I only learned from an Asian person who couldn't understand why it made any sense to put a bird in a cage - for those exact reasons.

And it made me wonder... are cages actually *ANY* better? Even in a proper sized cage with proper bar spacing, birds can *STILL* find ways to injure themselves. I feel like a bird in a small cage is as equally bad as a bird chained to a small stand.

Either one could be greatly improved, but it's up to the person to do so. I've had a bedroom converted bird room where I had made my own stands that were standing or perches that were hanging, a hanging feeding station, etc. Nothing fancy by any means but my birds were able to fly around and exercise. My birds are now in cages, and not the ones I'd like them to be in, but they are still larger than what many people use *in general* for birds of the same size and potentially larger. That is, I've seen larger birds in smaller cages...
 

ChristaNL

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Ehm, maybe I wasn't very clear:


legchains eventually lead to sprained, dislocated and/or broken legs.
It is not about 'what is more/ less beautifull' of even 'culturally accepted' it is about damaging your bird!
(Setting your bird up to damage itself.)

And that is always plain stupid!







(Of course we still lock them up, shackels or cages "for their own good"/ "the good of their owners" which is really, really weird if you stop to think about it. We love our birds and yet they are more or less prisoners and at our mercy ...)


ROFL @ mixed blood, since we are all (human x human) it cracks me up every single time.


Animal cruelty has many faces, like those designerdogs with a huge wardrobe and jewels -> are they allowed to run and play? No they pose ... "but al least they are not mistreated" -> all depends on your definition of mistreating, of course ;P
 

Jottlebot

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Yeah, I like the different perspective, but it's a safety or welfare issue really I think. Birds absolutely can injure themselves on cages, even on toys that are exactly the same as previous toys, but they have to work quite hard at it and be unlucky. Taking flight and being tethered by a leg chain is highly likely to cause injury.

Aesthetically I think leg chains are attractive, they can be quite delicate and subtle so, as previously said, you can see the full beauty of the bird. They are not safe however and so are not acceptable.
 

Kentuckienne

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Ah, the root of the problem. Humans believe we are so entitled to do what we want, especially if itā€™s ā€œour property.ā€ I paid for that bird, itā€™s mine, Iā€™ll do what I want and who cares what other people say. I paid for the land that 1000 year old tree lives on, and I have the right to cut it down if I want. I paid for my fishing license so I have the right to catch an endangered sailfish. I paid for this refinery on the bayou so I have the right to dump waste in the water. I paid for a mining lease so I have the right to dig in a national wilderness. I paid for this oil so I have the right to build a pipeline anywhere I want even if it pollutes your drinking water. Over and over and over again this is the chant of our species. We own this, it belongs to us, we have the god-given right to do what we want to it. I hate being human sometimes.

Yes, a person has the absolute legal right to starve or kill an unweaned baby out of ignorance or miserliness. Yes, a person has the absolute legal right to keep a huge winged creature in such a small cage that it canā€™t even stretch its wings fully out. Yes, a person has the right to chain up a bird, a dog, any animal they want. Because the animals donā€™t love us and they have their own natures and their own free will, and if we didnā€™t chain or cage them they would get away as soon as they could. And we paid good money for that macaw, or that tree, or that mining lease. Donā€™t tell ME what to do, Iā€™m free, white and 21.

And this saddens me deeply. We donā€™t acknowledge our kinship with the rest of creation. We donā€™t even recognize it. Dr. Pepperbergā€™s work with Alex shook the scientific community because it challenged the basis of our human vanity: the belief that humans are different ... that ponly humans are aware, able to think and reason, to come up with new ideas. Alex discovered for himself the concept of zero, something that took humans millenia to do. He proved that the absolute barriers we use to set ourselves apart from other animals and were nothing but illusions, words, matters of degree.

It discourages me to read that we will open a wildlife refuge for oil drilling. It disheartens me to read that we will allow endangered migratory birds to be killed if it saves money. It disappoints me that we donā€™t intervene with abuse and exploitation because property is protected. A humanā€™s ownership of something matters more in court than the thing or being that is owned. I say we are not owners, not masters. We are a part of the world. We are brothers and sisters, not gods. There is a defect in the human genetic code that releases a reward chemical, dopamine, when we get a prize, eat something tasty, find a mate, gather possessions. We are driven by emotions and hormones, not by logic and compassion. That is our nature. But we donā€™t have to be enslaved by our nature. We can use our will to step back, reconsider, put ourselves in another beingā€™s place. We can refrain from taking what is in our power to take, from destroying what itā€™s our legal right to destroy, and from enslaving a free being because itā€™s nit human. We can do better.

I believe everyone on this forum is here because they want to do better, because they want to be better, because they respect the feathered lives under their roofs and want to do right by them. The parrot in our cage - and letā€™s donā€™t sanitize the truth, it is a cage - isnā€™t our property, heā€™s our brother. He has a mind, an awareness, and a will of his own. Itā€™s not in our power to undo the wrongs done to him and to his ancestors, to give him freedom, to give him an authentic macaw life. Itā€™s only in our power to do right by him as much as we can. Quibbling about chains vs cages assumes that we have the right to do either. We donā€™t. At the same time, that macaw would not survive if we opened the door and threw him into the air. So we have the moral obligation to restrain him as kindly, as compassionately and as gently as we need to for his own safety. Maybe spend more money on good food for him, even if it means we go without something we desire. Maybe see through him his wild brothers and sisters being trapped, being killed, their homes destroyed to grow hamburgers for us, their babies stolen to be playthings for us, and maybe choose to help those invisible birds just a little. Maybe we will write a check to the World Parrot Trust or write a letter to the editor or write a helpful post on the Parrot Forum site. Maybe. Maybe. We canā€™t change the parrot world, and we canā€™t change human nature or society. We can only choose to be kind and loving to those around us, human or avian, and be as honorable as we can in our conduct toward these our brothers and sisters. To everyone here, thank you. Thank you for doing good. Thank you for caring. Thank you for being a light in the savage darkness. Thank you for being good guardians of the beings in your care. Thank you for coming here, out of all the internet, to connect with those who need to hear your words, and for supporting your fellow parronts in times of joy and sorrow. I hope you find the same love and light reflected back to you during your brief time on earth.
 

Amadeo

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Kentuckienne, reading your post brings to mind a saying I once heard.
It goes something like this, "Who is more evil; the carnivore on the plain killing for survival who does not feel compassion, or the human that is capable of compassion but will hunt and kill for the sheer pleasure or greed but not for need?"

The whole subject of animal welfare is a muddy subject to disgusts. A persons' attitude towards animals, wildlife and the planet as a whole is molded by, not only our culture, but also our upbringing. If you grow up surrounded by a lack of concideration and care for animals' welfare and wildlife its likely you'll show a similar attitude in the future, passing it from each generation to the next.
Leg chains aren't suitable for parrots though, so it's something that should be banned and replaced by another method. Unfortunately, regardless of what you do, it would still have to be restrictive to the animal.
 

MonicaMc

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I've had one cockatiel get her wing caught between the cage bars.... cage bars that were 1/2" apart. The recommended cage spacing for a cockatiel.

Another cockatiel managed to get her wing caught between the cage wall (at the front) and the cage tray because there was no grate in the cage.

Someone else I know had a parrotlet get it's foot caught in the grate of the cage because of a leg band.


At least two of those situations could have potentially been avoided... one by using a grate, the other by removing the leg band. But what about the bird who got her wing caught in the cage bars? Smaller bar spacing? Or perhaps, smaller openings? Such as a cage that has 1/2" by 1/2" bars? The wire mesh cages... which can be even more of a pain to clean, IMO!


Open top cages, cages with "V" shaped wires (especially seen on some corner cages or cages with dome tops or the legs of some cages), or any with any fancy scroll work or things meant to make the cages look nicer all have the potential to cause harm to birds....
 

Amadeo

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I've had one cockatiel get her wing caught between the cage bars.... cage bars that were 1/2" apart. The recommended cage spacing for a cockatiel

That's the issue. Whatever you do there is always going to be the chance your bird could get injured. Anything from the way we house them, to the toys we provide them, even the food we give them.

Your cockatiel getting stuck in the cage bars brings to mind Sherberts' late buddy, who once got his foot caught on a toy.
I was out of the house at the time, thankfully my Mum released him before he could do any harm to himself.
But like with your cage, what am I supposed to do?
Remove all the toys? That would leave my birds awfully board but anything I provide poses a risk.
The best we can do is use our common sense, past experiences and others experience to avoid things that are more likely to cause harm or suffering. Life is full of unavoidable risks.
 

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