First thoughts as a bird owner after reading this

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/04/hair-raising-feather-mite-vacuum-cleaner-birds

So I saw this article about the feather mites that live on virtually all birds this morning and my first thought when reading it turned to birds who pluck with no obvious cause. Perhaps, like an imbalance of gut bacteria (probiotics) can lead to all kind of issues including behavioral, some kind of imbalance or lacking of healthy feather mites may contribute to plucking behavior? We already know hand fed babies are at a disadvantage to parent fed because the passing of healthy gut bacteria does not occur with formula, perhaps not being near their parents/in a dirty nest (let’s face it, birds nests are nasty!) means they also don’t get the benefit of feather mites colonizing their first feathers. We know now that human babies benefit from skin to skin contact with their parents because of transfer of beneficial ‘germs’. We also know children raised in overly clean homes tend to have weaker immune systems. So perhaps chicks hatched in a brooder, not exposed to healthy adult birds and who are kept in too sterile of conditions are at a disadvantage regarding healthy feather mites?

These are obviously just my thoughts but I figured it was worth sharing, especially since we have breeders on here. Any thoughts or friendly discourse welcome!

This is so interesting! Thanks for sharing. I once saw an article someone wrote online where his theory was that plucking may be genetic. His reasoning was that wild caught birds almost never pluck no matter how stressed out they get (according to him and his observations that is-he ran a bird sanctuary). So, he thought there must be a genetic aspect since captive bred birds may carry a gene in some bloodlines that cause plucking. He goes on to say that since some people view plucking as a way of expressing sexual frustration, these plucked birds are allowed to mate and we are unknowingly making the problem worse. All his theories of course, and I'm not sure what to think of them other than that it was an interesting way to look at things that most of us had never heard before. This new article you shared is fascinating because I'm sure none of us considered that being brought up in a more sterile environment may play a factor in plucking also. Even if you have a bird that plucks since it doesn't have the beneficial mites and it has offspring that also pluck, is it a trait that was passed on genetically or is it because the plucked parent did not have any mites to pass on to its chicks? Thanks again for sharing this since it gave such a fresh angle on something we've all heard of but often times, can't explain.

this will gross you out. what would you do without your eyelash mites? now don't start rubbing your eyes! lol https://www.healthyandnaturalworld.com/how-to-detect-and-eliminate-demodex-mites-naturally/

I actually thought about eyelash mites! More, the fact that as a woman who does not really wear cosmetics, my eyelashes probably have lots of healthy mites and thus seem healthier than I notice many women who regularly wear the mascara stuff (men also tend to have longer and healthier looking eyelashes, presumably from healthy eyelash mites).

All creatures have evolved with symbiotic relationships with microscopic critters of many kinds. They aren’t all ‘gross’, many germs, mites etc... keep us healthy and our bodies functioning at optimal condition! Parrots too have symbiotic relationships with their own special microbiomes.

Kalel said:

This is so interesting! Thanks for sharing. I once saw an article someone wrote online where his theory was that plucking may be genetic. His reasoning was that wild caught birds almost never pluck no matter how stressed out they get (according to him and his observations that is-he ran a bird sanctuary). So, he thought there must be a genetic aspect since captive bred birds may carry a gene in some bloodlines that cause plucking. He goes on to say that since some people view plucking as a way of expressing sexual frustration, these plucked birds are allowed to mate and we are unknowingly making the problem worse. All his theories of course, and I'm not sure what to think of them other than that it was an interesting way to look at things that most of us had never heard before. This new article you shared is fascinating because I'm sure none of us considered that being brought up in a more sterile environment may play a factor in plucking also. Even if you have a bird that plucks since it doesn't have the beneficial mites and it has offspring that also pluck, is it a trait that was passed on genetically or is it because the plucked parent did not have any mites to pass on to its chicks? Thanks again for sharing this since it gave such a fresh angle on something we've all heard of but often times, can't explain.

Click to expand...

I honestly think people imposing their gemophobia on their birds makes them more prone to illness and behavioral problems. And breeders with the best of intentions set their chicks up for a lifetime of issues with not letting the parents have any/enough contact with their chicks and keeping the chicks environment to modern human cleaning standards. People go all out with that vet-grade cleaner and some even clean their birds entire area top to bottom every day or multiple times a day (!). And not being mean, but in my observations, it seems those peoples birds seem to have more frequent health and behavioral concerns over birds whose owners clean them a couple times a week, wash the cages a few times a year and don’t freak if there’s a little poo or food residue on a branch. In the context of newly hatched chicks, being in a rather nasty by our standards nest eating what is effectively their parents vomit likely builds their immune system and microbiome the way nature intended. We humans have taken our knowledge of disease and turned it into an outright paranoia/war against the microscopic world and now impose that on our pets too!

BTW, did anyone see that new study about fecal transplants improving the lives of children with autism? Again, another study/trial indicating biome influences behavior. If it is so in humans, why not in birds (who do not exhibit these behaviors in nature nor do wild caught/parent raised birds as often as human reared babies). For anyone interested in this human study:
https://www.sciencealert.com/autism...o-underwent-radical-faecal-transplant-therapy

so now the real question is, how do you introduce healthy feather mites to your bird?

Owlet said:

so now the real question is, how do you introduce healthy feather mites to your bird?

Click to expand...

I wonder if any vets or vet schools would be interested in studying this further? There really may be something to the idea of natural healthy feather mites helping some chronic pluckers. There may also be something to probiotics helping through similar ways as they are with autism. It may also be invaluable info for breeders to make different decisions with how they raise their birds.

*The article is the work of real scientists but the rest of this thread and is pure speculation based on what I know about the human biome and emerging info about hand vs paren5 raised birds

I really, totally love the things you come up with!

I do not think feathermites alone are the solution to plucking (I have non-plucker and plucker sharing a cage... so I am pretty confident they share mites as well) - but we need scientific proof of course.
But it may help in preventing the starting up of the plucking behaviour!



D. (my second grey) was a plucker because she had a type of cancer that also occurs in humans and the main symptom is unbearable itchiness and difuse pain all over the body.
(That reminds me- I still have to ask one of my CAVs if he finished the research and the article he was writing about it.)
We eventually had to euthanize for humane reasons: she would not die of it, but was deeply miserable and in some pain all the time (no quality of life), medication did nothing to help/ we tried everything else first!



I do not think plucking is genetic-> where would it come from?
Living in a cage causes genemutations?
Parrots have not been bred long enough (well most of them, budgies en cockatiels may be the exception - and they do not usually pluck) for inbreeding to be the cause. (they are just a few generations from the wild-non-plucking relatives.


I still lean towards the plucked too early from parental care (there is scientific proof now that parrentbirds actively stimulate and contribute to the imuumsystem -almost like the colostrum in mammals- only for a longer period than the 2 weeks the "breeders" generally give them) and 'being lost' in how to care for feathers propperly (no rolemodels at an early age) and of course boredom/ stressrelief etc..


Sunny's feathers were an irritant to her because they were completely brittle and unpleasant because of a crappy diet, not some other illness.
Like having a bunch of knitting needles stuck in her butt instead of springy, bendy feathers... so nutrition really plays a part!
Now she is stuck with the habit of grabbing feathers first instead of toys when she need to vent frustration or other emotions/feeling. (Working on it)

Just because the feathers were there, toys...not so much, and of course she could not move around in the (small small) cage to get rid of energy the normal way.
(Flapping wings is really, really important, not just for physical benefits -cardio workout etc.- but als to get rid of "nervous energy" and get their heads settled.)





and if you want disgusting: ceasarian section (human) babies usually had health-issues just because they did not get colonized by mums bacteria on the natural way out.
(and yes many women will defecate during the final stages of labour -> al that straining etc.- that may actually be beneficial as well because there are many more gutbacteria present than usual.)
Of course once they found out how important those are the doctors nowadays will make sure to introduce mums bacteria to the newborn asap.