Parrot Forum Header Left  
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Community > Off Topic

Off Topic Post here for non parrot related topics

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2019, 11:58 AM
charmedbyekkie's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Cairo the Ekkie!
Join Date: May 2018
Location: US/SG
Thanks: 1,282
Thanked 1,930 Times in 605 Posts
charmedbyekkie is on a distinguished road
re: Dirty Laundry!

I've been a bit less on this forum largely because I'm still trying to sort out my feelings on what happened. Since I live where I live, I've seen things happen live while North America tends to be sleeping (yay timezones?) before the mods can edit or otherwise clean up a post/thread..

I guess what is causing me turmoil is this:
I grew up with parents who grew up in two different countries, in two different cultures, in two different sets of right/wrong and appropriate/not-appropriate and good/bad. My partner and I also grew up in two different countries, in two different cultures, and two different sets of right/wrong etc.

I don't think of myself as a particularly kind or forgiving person. But I do recognise and give allowances for the fact that I grew up in a culture that prioritises being polite and keeping the peace. And I have enjoyed the friendship of many who come from different cultures/countries that prioritise honesty above all. While I often disagree, I treasure their different perspective and manner of speaking/writing because it causes me to reflect on my own assumptions and my own beliefs as well as open my eyes to a different perspective and expand my knowledge.

As a minority/foreigner living in a different culture with whole different rules of how to be a good member of society (the way you move, the way you talk, the way you think, the way you conduct interpersonal relationships....), I can empathise with defaulting to the culture you were raised in. Sometimes it's exhausting to be 'local', sometimes my childhood culture compels me to speak/act in certain situations. Lighter example: I know I step on some locals' toes when I say that you can't expect a bird to just accept a harness, that you have to take time to train. More serious example: some parents slap their children and verbally abuse them in public, and no one says a word whereas I'm more than willing to discuss how filial piety laws don't make sense when you have physically/emotionally/mentally abusive parents.

At the same time, I have moderated in-person groups before.. I know a group culture has to be set because not everyone can handle communication across mistranslations and cultural differences (including cultural ignorance). I know I constantly tried to translate (even though my family always spoke English) cultural differences between my parents when they were talking on two different radio/cultural frequencies. And I know I'm constantly dialling into my partner's frequency (it's so hard for him to understand how to dial into my childhood cultural frequency since he doesn't have much exposure to it), but it's exhausting and frustrating sometimes. It'll always be a source of tension and occasional conflict unless there's a compromise from both sides.



I guess, at the end of the day, I'm mourning the loss of a perspective that, despite our occasional disagreements, I felt a kinship with and a perspective that caused me to grow in self-awareness and as a contributing member.
__________________
Parront to Cairo (pronounced chai-row, or 菜肉)*!

*He grew up in a Malay-speaking family, so we have to respect his name and preferred pronunciation

@cairothedino on Instagram
Reply With Quote
The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to charmedbyekkie For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-10-2019), Anansi  (05-11-2019), Aspie_Aviphile (07-06-2019), dhraiden (05-15-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-14-2019), Flboy Supporting Member (05-10-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-11-2019), LaManuka Supporting Member (05-11-2019), noodles123 (05-11-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Scott  (05-10-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019)
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2019, 12:51 PM
clark_conure's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Cinnamon Green Cheeked Conure CLARK (F) and a Regular Green Cheeked Conure ZOD (F)
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Minnesota
Thanks: 1,309
Thanked 2,808 Times in 1,305 Posts
clark_conure is on a distinguished road
re: Dirty Laundry!

well I finally got a response and I'm ok with the decision...thank you to the person that knows who you are.

All it took was a little honesty.

I understand the whole protecting a person.....but just a bit of subtext I'd be like ooooooohhhhhhhh ok I get it.


So ok yeah I'm on your side now.

Thanks every one.....{zod drops the mike sideways, as Clark ruffles my hair }

Also I get the other secrecy thing but ....well sigh...I guess I dunno


n short to anyone who has NO IDEA what is going on, the mods got it right.
Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to clark_conure For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-11-2019), Anansi  (05-11-2019), Aspie_Aviphile (07-06-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-14-2019), Flboy Supporting Member (05-11-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Inger Supporting Member (05-11-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Scott  (05-11-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019), WakaWaka Supporting Member (05-12-2019)
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2019, 03:35 PM
Scott's Avatar
Super Moderator
Parrots:
Goffins: Gabby, Abby, Squeaky, Peanut, Popcorn / Citron: Alice / Eclectus: Angel /Timneh Grey: ET / Blue Fronted Amazon: Gonzo / RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Diego, California USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Thanks: 72,591
Thanked 36,677 Times in 13,217 Posts
Scott is on a distinguished road
re: Dirty Laundry!

Thanks, Allee, for highlighting the consideration a member is given before a temporary or permanent ban from the forum. To our dear members, we weigh with deep respect a dire altercation with lifetime contribution before rendering a unanimous or majority decision. In all cases we seek to remain true to the credo of everyone "enjoying your stay." That truly means moderating lightly yet protecting members from the most egregious conflicts.
__________________

Last edited by Allee; 05-11-2019 at 11:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Scott For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-11-2019), Anansi  (05-11-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-14-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-11-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019), WakaWaka Supporting Member (05-12-2019)
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2019, 01:34 PM
Senior Member
Parrots:
Umbrella Cockatoo- 11 years old
Join Date: Jul 2018
Thanks: 3,293
Thanked 5,590 Times in 2,254 Posts
noodles123 will become famous soon enough
Re: Dirty Laundry!

So, here is my question...If a member is banned, is there any hope of them returning?

People say offensive things sometimes...They don't always know that what they have said is offensive...I am very much in favor of keeping this forum a safe-place, but sometimes, people say things without understanding their weight...Especially if those people have trouble with perspective-taking.

As a teacher, I worry about the impact a ban could have on those within our community who may be less tuned-in to social rules...Brilliant people who may be socially awkward (much like our birds in that respect). We (the collective) NEED that perspective because it is unique and informative. Furthermore, if someone who is less social has made an effort to join the community, stripping that away could result in very personal consequences (not just to the community, but to the individual).

Think about it----if Temple Grandin were a member....she would likely be banned....
Should we ban people when they offend us? When their contributions outweigh their differences, I think we must consider that as well.




I don't need a reply. This is just intended to be food for thought...

Last edited by noodles123; 05-11-2019 at 01:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 14 Users Say Thank You to noodles123 For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-11-2019), Anansi  (05-11-2019), Aspie_Aviphile (07-06-2019), dhraiden (05-15-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-14-2019), Flboy Supporting Member (05-11-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Jen5200 Supporting Member (05-11-2019), LaManuka Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Rozalka (05-11-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Scott  (05-11-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019), WakaWaka Supporting Member (05-12-2019)
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2019, 02:47 PM
texsize's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
1 YNA (Bingo) 1 OWA (Plumas R.I.P.) 1 RLA (Pacho R.I.P.) 2 GCA(Luna,Merlin) 1 Congo AG (Bella) 8 Cockatiels
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: so-cal
Thanks: 1,477
Thanked 3,427 Times in 1,333 Posts
texsize is on a distinguished road
Re: Dirty Laundry!

Gee, I feel like I missed something.

Oh well Guess I will live through it.

texsize
__________________
cockatiel family :
Lucky (M pied)
Baby (M pied)
Pinky (F lutino)
Sunny mother (cinnamon)
Cheeky father (whitface)
Angel (eldest lutino F)
Mango (middle pearl F)
Popeye (male grey M)
Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to texsize For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-11-2019), Anansi  (05-11-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-14-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Inger Supporting Member (05-11-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Scott  (05-11-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019), WakaWaka Supporting Member (05-12-2019)
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2019, 03:17 PM
LaManuka's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Fang (8yo (ab)normal grey cockatiel), HRH Crown Princess Lilly Pilly (purple-crowned lorikeet gotcha date 28 Oct 2018) & Valentino (budgie, gotcha date 14 Feb 2019 at approx 6mo)
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Brisbane Australia
Thanks: 3,458
Thanked 4,813 Times in 1,312 Posts
LaManuka is on a distinguished road
Re: Dirty Laundry!

To err is human; to forgive, divine.

I know it’s against the rules to write to a mod to plead the case for someone who has been banned, but I have done so because I believe this member is worth it and has proven so more times than any of us can count. The member has been a great friend to so many, in the fun times, but more importantly, in times of great pain and grief. I truly believe this member has only the best interests of the feathered members of PF at front of mind and core of heart, and in my very humble opinion it’s the birds who are the big losers if this ban remains permanent.

Yes the member has transgressed forum rules a few times, but my goodness how many more times has she displayed what a compassionate heart she has?! How many people have been comforted by her extra-ordinary words of kindness following the loss of a beloved bird? And how many more have benefited from her experience, insight, knowledge and amazing wisdom when faced with a situation with their bird that they may otherwise struggle with - to the detriment of the bird?! I do not believe the best interests of the majority are being served with this permanent ban. I understand that the forum needs to be a “safe” place for all, however the very reason people read our posts and/or join up is for the betterment of the birds in their care. That is the fundamental reason for this forum’s existence and what makes it so great, and I do not believe that permanently banning this member helps in that endeavour.

I’m quite sure every one of us can recall a time when we have received forgiveness when we thought all hope of redemption was completely lost. It is my enduring hope that hearts may eventually soften and that this member may be allowed to return. The forum I believe is a poorer place without her.
__________________
"Words speak us more than we speak them.” Hercule Poirot (I know he’s fictional, but he’s my favourite “Belgian upstart”!)
Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to LaManuka For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-11-2019), Anansi  (05-11-2019), clark_conure Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-24-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-11-2019), noodles123 (05-11-2019), Rozalka (05-12-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Scott  (05-11-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019), WakaWaka Supporting Member (05-12-2019)
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2019, 04:19 PM
Flboy's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
JoJo, 'Special' GCC, Bongo, Cinnamon GCC(wife's)
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Greater Orlando area, Florida
Thanks: 10,885
Thanked 10,218 Times in 4,946 Posts
Flboy is on a distinguished road
Re: Dirty Laundry!

I knew this ban was inevitable, I had been following the anger building! I went back and forth on sending a pm, but I had one attack, very minor, from her in the past, and I know she can be trigger happy!
Remember, for someone to be forgiven, it is a two way proposition!

This is not the case here, but I say no, you can not always overlook someone’s faults because of their contributions!
When someone is banned, I am sure a lot of pain and tears went into the decision!
__________________
..David..
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Flboy For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-11-2019), Anansi  (05-11-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-14-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-11-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Scott  (05-11-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019), WakaWaka Supporting Member (05-12-2019)
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2019, 08:27 PM
Anansi's Avatar
Super Moderator
Parrots:
Maya (Female Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Jolly (Male Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Bixby (Male, red-sided eclectus. RIP), Suzie (Male cockatiel. RIP)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somerset,NJ
Thanks: 73,789
Thanked 48,056 Times in 15,350 Posts
Anansi will become famous soon enoughAnansi will become famous soon enough
Re: Dirty Laundry!

Quote: Originally Posted by noodles123 View Post
So, here is my question...If a member is banned, is there any hope of them returning?
In the case of a temporary ban? Of course. In the case of a permanent ban, it has only happened once (to my knowledge).

Quote: Originally Posted by noodles123
People say offensive things sometimes...They don't always know that what they have said is offensive...I am very much in favor of keeping this forum a safe-place, but sometimes, people say things without understanding their weight...Especially if those people have trouble with perspective-taking.
Well said, and I agree 100%

Quote: Originally Posted by noodles123
Should we ban people when they offend us? When their contributions outweigh their differences, I think we must consider that as well.
Again, I agree 100%.

Now let me ask you a question. Why do you assume that we have not considered any of this? Why do you assume that one insensitive thing was said or done that has led to a banning? Has it never occurred to you that multiple warnings and even infractions may already have been extended? That a banning may have had less to do with an isolated incident of social awkwardness than a continual and repeated refusal to abide by the rules of the site?

Look, I empathize with what you're doing here. And I really respect it. But you're making an argument based on incomplete information.

Now some would have us go into detail, chapter and verse, in order to basically justify our decisions. To that, I'll say what any mod worth their salt would: "No." We do not adjudicate by committee. I don't say this to be harsh, because I understand where you're coming from. But mods cannot effectively maintain a forum and seek approval from all involved. Our policy is what it is, and everyone who joined at least tacitly agreed to abide by the rules and structures currently in place.

But that said, I will say that we do take the factors into account that you have addressed above. In fact, we take great pains to do so. But while some might be focused solely on the unfortunate event of one member's banning, they of a necessity remain blind to all that has preceded it. They remain blind to any infractions, to any 2nd, 3rd, or even 7th chances, to any number of edits, or to the possibility of any pm'd complaints from other members. Sometimes it gets to a point where you have to ask yourself whether you're okay with the rules for some being mere suggestions for others.

Quote: Originally Posted by LaManuka View Post
To err is human; to forgive, divine.

I know it’s against the rules to write to a mod to plead the case for someone who has been banned, but I have done so because I believe this member is worth it and has proven so more times than any of us can count. The member has been a great friend to so many, in the fun times, but more importantly, in times of great pain and grief. I truly believe this member has only the best interests of the feathered members of PF at front of mind and core of heart, and in my very humble opinion it’s the birds who are the big losers if this ban remains permanent...
Just to be absolutely clear here, it is not against the rules to plead the case of someone who has been banned via pm. You just shouldn't expect us to give an explanation as to why that member was banned.

Now, please understand that this thread was intended to be general in nature. We are making a soft exception here, but public discussion of someone's banning, even to this limited capacity, will not be a regular occurrence. That said, the banning in question was not an indictment of this person's character. Personally, I've always been rather fond of said member. So this decision was not undertaken lightly. Again, I won't go into any further detail save to say that you have not been privy to the rather extensive history of this case. I have a lot of respect for you as a positive contributing member of our community, and I appreciate the caring for your friend that prompts you to make this post, but try to take into account that while this discussion is new for the rest of you, it's months old for us.

Quote: Originally Posted by Flboy View Post
...This is not the case here, but I say no, you can not always overlook someone’s faults because of their contributions!
Exactly. Or rather, you can to a point, but there has to be a limit.

Quote: Originally Posted by Flboy
When someone is banned, I am sure a lot of pain and tears went into the decision!
Very true, my friend. Thank you, David, for giving us the benefit of the doubt.

Quote: Originally Posted by charmedbyekkie View Post
...I guess, at the end of the day, I'm mourning the loss of a perspective that, despite our occasional disagreements, I felt a kinship with and a perspective that caused me to grow in self-awareness and as a contributing member.
Charmed, I appreciate your well thought out and balanced post. Most of what you said, I trust/hope, has already been addressed by my other responses. But your last sentence bares repeating. Believe it or not, we mourn the loss of such perspectives as well.
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Anansi For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-11-2019), dhraiden (05-15-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-14-2019), Flboy Supporting Member (05-11-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-12-2019), Rozalka (05-12-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Scott  (05-11-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019), WakaWaka Supporting Member (05-12-2019)
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2019, 08:50 PM
clark_conure's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Cinnamon Green Cheeked Conure CLARK (F) and a Regular Green Cheeked Conure ZOD (F)
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Minnesota
Thanks: 1,309
Thanked 2,808 Times in 1,305 Posts
clark_conure is on a distinguished road
Wink Re: Dirty Laundry!

Not for nothing I think anyone that owns a parrot has had some dirty laundry, especially a tee shirt .... from time to time.

The title of the thread amused me.......
Reply With Quote
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to clark_conure For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-11-2019), Anansi  (05-11-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-14-2019), Flboy Supporting Member (05-11-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-12-2019), Inger Supporting Member (05-11-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Scott  (05-11-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019), WakaWaka Supporting Member (05-12-2019)
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:19 PM
Senior Member
Parrots:
Umbrella Cockatoo- 11 years old
Join Date: Jul 2018
Thanks: 3,293
Thanked 5,590 Times in 2,254 Posts
noodles123 will become famous soon enough
Re: Dirty Laundry!

Quote: Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by noodles123 View Post
So, here is my question...If a member is banned, is there any hope of them returning?
In the case of a temporary ban? Of course. In the case of a permanent ban, it has only happened once (to my knowledge).

Quote: Originally Posted by noodles123
People say offensive things sometimes...They don't always know that what they have said is offensive...I am very much in favor of keeping this forum a safe-place, but sometimes, people say things without understanding their weight...Especially if those people have trouble with perspective-taking.
Well said, and I agree 100%



Again, I agree 100%.

Now let me ask you a question. Why do you assume that we have not considered any of this? Why do you assume that one insensitive thing was said or done that has led to a banning? Has it never occurred to you that multiple warnings and even infractions may already have been extended? That a banning may have had less to do with an isolated incident of social awkwardness than a continual and repeated refusal to abide by the rules of the site?

Look, I empathize with what you're doing here. And I really respect it. But you're making an argument based on incomplete information.

Now some would have us go into detail, chapter and verse, in order to basically justify our decisions. To that, I'll say what any mod worth their salt would: "No." We do not adjudicate by committee. I don't say this to be harsh, because I understand where you're coming from. But mods cannot effectively maintain a forum and seek approval from all involved. Our policy is what it is, and everyone who joined at least tacitly agreed to abide by the rules and structures currently in place.

But that said, I will say that we do take the factors into account that you have addressed above. In fact, we take great pains to do so. But while some might be focused solely on the unfortunate event of one member's banning, they of a necessity remain blind to all that has preceded it. They remain blind to any infractions, to any 2nd, 3rd, or even 7th chances, to any number of edits, or to the possibility of any pm'd complaints from other members. Sometimes it gets to a point where you have to ask yourself whether you're okay with the rules for some being mere suggestions for others.



Just to be absolutely clear here, it is not against the rules to plead the case of someone who has been banned via pm. You just shouldn't expect us to give an explanation as to why that member was banned.

Now, please understand that this thread was intended to be general in nature. We are making a soft exception here, but public discussion of someone's banning, even to this limited capacity, will not be a regular occurrence. That said, the banning in question was not an indictment of this person's character. Personally, I've always been rather fond of said member. So this decision was not undertaken lightly. Again, I won't go into any further detail save to say that you have not been privy to the rather extensive history of this case. I have a lot of respect for you as a positive contributing member of our community, and I appreciate the caring for your friend that prompts you to make this post, but try to take into account that while this discussion is new for the rest of you, it's months old for us.



Exactly. Or rather, you can to a point, but there has to be a limit.

Quote: Originally Posted by Flboy
When someone is banned, I am sure a lot of pain and tears went into the decision!
Very true, my friend. Thank you, David, for giving us the benefit of the doubt.

Quote: Originally Posted by charmedbyekkie View Post
...I guess, at the end of the day, I'm mourning the loss of a perspective that, despite our occasional disagreements, I felt a kinship with and a perspective that caused me to grow in self-awareness and as a contributing member.
Charmed, I appreciate your well thought out and balanced post. Most of what you said, I trust/hope, has already been addressed by my other responses. But your last sentence bares repeating. Believe it or not, we mourn the loss of such perspectives as well.
I haven't assumed anything. I wasn't criticizing, so much as I was commenting. I do not blame the moderators for their decisions, but without details, it is hard to fully understand. I am not asking for details either...it is very clear that those cannot be given. I just felt the need to say something. No offense was intended. If I weren't giving you (collective) the benefit of the doubt, I wouldn't be here. That having been said, it isn't unhealthy to wonder or for a community to feel a sort of loss when a long-time member departs. That is not a criticism- just a reality. Again, I am not trying to be a fire-starter. That was why I specifically said that no comment was needed on my post. I don't know the details and I doubt I ever will, but that having been said, I felt the need to say what I said just in case my perspective was unique.

Last edited by noodles123; 05-11-2019 at 09:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to noodles123 For This Useful Post:
Allee  (05-11-2019), Anansi  (05-11-2019), Ellie777Australia (05-14-2019), Flboy Supporting Member (05-11-2019), GaleriaGila Supporting Member (05-12-2019), LaManuka Supporting Member (05-12-2019), Rozalka (05-12-2019), SailBoat Supporting Member (05-11-2019), Scott  (05-11-2019), Terry57  (05-11-2019), WakaWaka Supporting Member (05-12-2019)
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Community > Off Topic

Tags
membership, moderation

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Laundry Song getwozzy Budgies/Parakeets 16 02-05-2015 10:59 PM
Cody does laundry, lol. WannaBeAParrot Conures 3 11-12-2014 10:00 PM
Laundry Sanitizer? RavensGryf Off Topic 4 08-18-2014 08:50 PM
Last load of laundry done..... Bundiibird Alexandrines 15 04-06-2014 03:33 AM
Sunday Laundry MrsWharfrat Macaws 13 07-28-2012 09:50 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.