HELP! Propagating plants from cuttings?

noodles123

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Okay, so there is this amazing Koreanspice Viburnum tree growing a few blocks from me and they are IMPOSSIBLE to find in store and when you do find them, they cost a TON!

Anyway, I got permission to take some cuttings....I have never done this before...BUT I REALLY WANT IT TO WORK SOOOO BADLY.

I know they can take up to 6 weeks to root, but is there a point at which I can be fairly certain they will survive until then? I mean, I want to be optimistic because I took these cuttings on Monday morning at like 6 AM (after a rain)---so over 5 days ago----and they still look exactly as they did when I put them in the containers. The leaves are green, no signs of blackening or wilting....So does that mean if I keep doing this I will likely have success? I basically am wondering if there a a hump we have to make it over before that 6 week point that would be an indicator of likely eventual success...

1. My scissors were not "sterile" (oops--apparently that was a mistake).
2. I DID use rooting hormone.
3. I used a mix of potting soil and succulent soil (because of drainability)..dk if that was smart.

4. I have them on a window ledge with plastic bags over them (with holes in the bags for air). My goal is moisture for leaves without root rot.

5. The soil is "moist" but def. not wet. I have been misting inside the bags daily when I no longer see condensation.

6. When I first put them into the soil, I watered like I would another plant but quickly decided that was stupid, removed them, remixed the soil so that it was moist and re-planted them (this all happened over the course of an hour Monday morning).

Any advice would be appreciated!
noodles123-albums-random-picture22434-viburnum-cuttings-cut-5-4-20-picture-taken-5-9-20-will-they-root-eek.png


noodles123-albums-random-picture22433-viburnum-cuttings-cut-5-4-20-pic-taken-5-9-20.png
 
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noodles123

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Often, when rooting, you remove the older leaves! Leaving just the buds!

I picked away a bunch of the leaves toward the base and scraped off some of the bark at the bottoms of the stem (and covered in rooting hormone) . I left 2 leaves on most (but I did cut at least one in half (1 of the 2 leaves) on one of the plants--- but I was afraid to do it to all of them.

If they made it this far, what are the odds of them rooting?

I think some of them didn't have any nodes under the soil....but they still look healthy...can a stem root without a node on a cutting?
 
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SailBoat

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Congratulations for getting into a new hobby. Just know when the roots push out, you automatically become a plant nerd and if any of your other plants die -- its classified as premeditated murder... :D

FYI #1: "sterile" is just a bit topping out! The likely goal of that note is to get those trying this to keep their tools clean! A wash in the dish washer will do.

FYI #2: Which you likely did, cut at a forty degree angle as it maximizes exposed surface while retaining strength near the point.

And, of course everything my good friend and much more experience in this art than I states. :D
 
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noodles123

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I dk if I cut at a 40 degree angle..I cut them at bit if an angle (def. when I took them from the bush) but not sure if I did as good of a job when breaking the larger cutting into separate cuttings lol.

If I keep doing what I am doing (as long as they stay alive) do you think they will root? I mean, is it possible that 8 weeks from now, a stem with perfect leaves could have no roots at all and never develop them? Wouldn't the leaves die?
 

SailBoat

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Not the pro here by any means, but I have seen cut Christmas trees root!

IMHO, the 45 degree thing is a target range (+/- a few degrees).
 

Jen5200

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Everything you have done sounds right to me. I cut and root things sometimes- and normally the leaves start to wither after a few weeks if nothing is happening under the dirt. I normally look for signs of “growth” like new buds before I assume that it probably has roots under it. I’ve heard you can test by giving it a gentle tug to see if it holds itself in - but have never done it, as I’m too afraid to damage baby roots :silly:
 

chris-md

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Jen - nothing wrong with the tug - test method. Tried and true! It won’t hurt anything.

Don’t stress about cutting angles or sterilization. That’s more applicable to active horticulturists who have high likelihood of having pruned diseased plant materials recently.

For cutting angles, listen: if it wants to root, it’ll root. I’ve done angled cuts, fligh cuts. Never made much difference.

One thing I want to recommend, though I don’t see it recommended on any sites outlining viburnum cuttings specifically - but something I was taught early on for just about every cutting I ever DID take, and I was in charge of production at a greenhouse for a while - was to cut the remaining leaves in half at lease, laterally across the center (across the mid vein, not along it).

Existing leaves become a liability on a cutting, because they become a place where water escapes. Reducing that respiratory load increases likelihood of success significantly.

You might experiment on one or two of your cuttings using this method.

I’m concerned about this plastic wrap method. The Rooting process Nevessairly creates An environment favorable to pathogen growth (High humidity/moist environment, which suppressed water loss through the leaves and keeps them alive without roots. Though powdered rooting hormone often does have fungicide in it to help), which is usually kept at bay with air circulation — the fans usually found in greenhouses. Absent that, I’d personally just keep them on. The windowsill (unobstructed southfacing window is preferable, west is second best) without any further interference like these bags, except maybe a humidifier if you are so inclined.

You might play by removing the plastic from half the cuttings.
 
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noodles123

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Jen - nothing wrong with the tug - test method. Tried and true! It won’t hurt anything.

Don’t stress about cutting angles or sterilization. That’s more applicable to active horticulturists who have high likelihood of having pruned diseased plant materials recently.

For cutting angles, listen: if it wants to root, it’ll root. I’ve done angled cuts, fligh cuts. Never made much difference.

One thing I want to recommend, though I don’t see it recommended on any sites outlining viburnum cuttings specifically - but something I was taught early on for just about every cutting I ever DID take, and I was in charge of production at a greenhouse for a while - was to cut the remaining leaves in half at lease, laterally across the center (across the mid vein, not along it).

Existing leaves become a liability on a cutting, because they become a place where water escapes. Reducing that respiratory load increases likelihood of success significantly.

You might experiment on one or two of your cuttings using this method.

Will they root at the base of the cutting if there were no leaf nodes under the soil (Like I said, I did strip the bark at the base to expose the green, so they are injured).

I’m concerned about this plastic wrap method. The Rooting process Nevessairly creates An environment favorable to pathogen growth (High humidity/moist environment, which suppressed water loss through the leaves and keeps them alive without roots. Though powdered rooting hormone often does have fungicide in it to help), which is usually kept at bay with air circulation – the fans usually found in greenhouses. Absent that, I’d personally just keep them on. The windowsill (unobstructed southfacing window is preferable, west is second best) without any further interference like these bags, except maybe a humidifier if you are so inclined.

You might play by removing the plastic from half the cuttings.

I was scared to cut the leaves like you suggested, but prior to posting, I did do it to one plant because I read that it reduces transpiration and makes the plant reply more heavily on root production. I wonder if I should do it to the others....?

The transpiration is what concerned me, hence the plastic, but I also cut holes in the plastic. I don't want the leaves to dry out before it has a chance to root....I've read mixed reviews on plastic vs non...but def considered it. They just seem to be doing well so far *knock on wood* so I am afraid to change it up...I have a feeling they will all die before they root anyway :( BUT if I can make at least 2 root, I would be ecstatic (one for me, one for my mom) lol.

If I keep the leaves moist, could I end up with great looking leaves and no roots 3 months from now??? (they usually root within 6-8 weeks w/o hormones)


Can I put them in the ground over the summer if/when they do root, or do I need to baby them indoors a bit longer?

Also- would rooting hormone need to be reapplied to the actual roots at the time of transplant to either the ground or a larger container?

I want this to work SO badly..when they bloom, you can smell them for blocks and the smell is lovely, but not overpowering...almost like an improved lilac scent...I had a few blossoms in water and they filled my house with such a nice scent (even though they were tiny!!)
The one near me is probably 14 feet tall (which is insane) as they are slow growers...I imagine it was probably planted in the 1800s, so it's unlikely I will find many like it anywhere else lol

Viburnum_Spice-Island-Main.jpg
 
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chris-md

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Keeping the leaves moist = reduces stress = higher likelihood of success, QUICKER.

Holes in the plastic don’t help. Water vapor is a gas. Gasses diffuse along a gradient From high concentration to low concentration. It’ll just escape the plants and “humidify” the rest of the room. Effectively all you’ve done is found a way to lower humidity a bit, perhaps significantly depending on quantity and size of the holes. SO, Either you’ve 1) defeated the purpose of the plastic to begin with, OR 2) reduced humidity a bit, but not addressed the underlying issue of stagnant air. Take your pick. Nothing good usually comes from set ups like this.

Regarding overwintering, I’ll be honest with you I don’t know the ACTUAL answer as I’ve never confronted hardy bush propagation and transplantation head on in my career (More tropical and annuals). But my gut usually proves fruitful for me in such situations. My gut says baby it if you can through the summer, then plant. Get them into the ground with a strong root system perhaps in October. Viburnum require winter dormancy; Hardy plants denied their dormancy will die a slow death over time. Usually 2-3 years for plants like oak trees, which shows how detrimental it can be.
 
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noodles123

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Keeping the leaves moist = reduces stress = higher likelihood of success, QUICKER.

Holes in the plastic don’t help. Water vapor is a gas. Gasses diffuse along a gradient From high concentration to low concentration. It’ll just escape the plants and “humidify” the rest of the room. Effectively all you’ve done is found a way to lower humidity a bit, perhaps significantly depending on quantity and size of the holes. SO, Either you’ve 1) defeated the purpose of the plastic to begin with, OR 2) reduced humidity a bit, but not addressed the underlying issue of stagnant air. Take your pick. Nothing good usually comes from set ups like this.

Regarding overwintering, I’ll be honest with you I don’t know the ACTUAL answer as I’ve never confronted hardy bush propagation and transplantation head on in my career (More tropical and annuals). But my gut usually proves fruitful for me in such situations. My gut says baby it if you can through the summer, then plant. Get them into the ground with a strong root system perhaps in October. Viburnum require winter dormancy; Hardy plants denied their dormancy will die a slow death over time. Usually 2-3 years for plants like oak trees, which shows how detrimental it can be.

So leave the plastic on or remove it? I can tell you that I had a "cutting" (not really a cutting-- more like a stemmed blossom that I broke off just for the smell) and shoved into some dirt as an early experiment (before I actually researched) and it died and attracted insects within 2 days. I did make sure that I took these most recent cuttings from branches without flowers....This SEEMS to be working (so far), but I am worried about the same things you are...What do you suggest?
 
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chris-md

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The good news is your timing for viburnum cutting is great. On hardy Woody plants, timing is everything.

I suggest experimenting to increase likelihood of success with at least 2 rooting. 1/2 plants out of plastic, 1/2 in plastic. 1/2 cut leaves, 1/2 leave the leaves uncut.

If the owner will let you, go back for a few more cuttings and try rooting them in water. This can also be quite successful.
 
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noodles123

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The good news is your timing for viburnum cutting is great. On hardy Woody plants, timing is everything.

I suggest experimenting to increase likelihood of success with at least 2 rooting. 1/2 plants out of plastic, 1/2 in plastic. 1/2 cut leaves, 1/2 leave the leaves uncut.

If the owner will let you, go back for a few more cuttings and try rooting them in water. This can also be quite successful.

LOL- I would have to call again haha-- the person was very nice, but it is technically owned by a rather interesting church. Plus, I felt like a criminal even after I had permission because I didn't want people to see me! How important is it to cut them in the early morning after a rain? I did that because I read that it mattered (like...6:30 AM, still sprinkling outside) but it was a pain because of the bird, among other things, lol (she had to stay covered longer than usual and was not pleased, as it was the second day I had her in until 8AM lol)

Is there a time at which I can begin to feel confident that they will root (prior to the 6- 8 week timeline)? Kind of like in movies when a doctor says, "if she survives the night, she will be okay, but I wouldn't hold my breath"..LOL-- I just hate to think that I spend so much time looking after them, only for them to randomly die 2 weeks from now!!! :( so I am looking for a light at the end of the tunnel (prior to the 6-8 week rooting timeline).
 
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chris-md

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Lol! Check at the 5 week mark.

But a good sign that you’re likely to succeed is....well...if they don’t Die before that time! On a woody cuttings, I’d expect Death comes at a moderate pace, Couple weeks maybe.
 

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What Chris-md says, X2!
Been many years since I have done large scale cuttings! I forgot about trimming the leaves! I, also had bad results with bagging the plants, they developed rot! I know you are most successful using new growth, but, it’s true, they root when they root! I have a monster, devils backbone, that I nursed from a single branch! I did everything wrong, stuck it in sand, water, forget for a week, repeat! It struggled for a year! Last year, I moved it to a huge pot with good dirt, it really responded!
That viburnum looks really interesting! I may hunt one down! Writings say it propagates easily!
Up north, my dad was lilac crazy! Taking cut branches, he would walk around, sticking them in the ground! Nothing else! They all grew!
 
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noodles123

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What Chris-md says, X2!
Been many years since I have done large scale cuttings! I forgot about trimming the leaves! I, also had bad results with bagging the plants, they developed rot! I know you are most successful using new growth, but, it’s true, they root when they root! I have a monster, devils backbone, that I nursed from a single branch! I did everything wrong, stuck it in sand, water, forget for a week, repeat! It struggled for a year! Last year, I moved it to a huge pot with good dirt, it really responded!
That viburnum looks really interesting! I may hunt one down! Writings say it propagates easily!
Up north, my dad was lilac crazy! Taking cut branches, he would walk around, sticking them in the ground! Nothing else! They all grew!

Lol that is reassuring at least lol! I just hated taking this cuttings because I was embarrassed lol! It really is a very lovely plant-- I literally sniffed it out and that was how I found it hahah!
I'm going to be very disappointed if they don't make it just because they have survived this long!

Question though---I have a succulent problem that you may be able to help me with...Let me take a picture and report back lol! I think I will just make a new thread for that separate issue lol
 
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noodles123

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Okay- so 5/6 of my plants survived (thus far) but I checked one of them for roots and it had hardly any--the roots it did have were only about 1 mm long and there were 3 or so (1 mm each) on the plant I checked. The leaves are still green and at the surface, it looks healthy...Does this mean I wasn't keeping the soil moist enough or something? Is it too late for it to root further, or could I change the conditions somehow (like more soil moisture or something) and reactivate the rooting process??? I am so irritated-- I thought for sure it was successful because the plants look so healthy. I am afraid to check the others and disrupt the process (if there is anything happening at all) :(

I started this on the 5th of May, and as I said, the cuttings look healthy, but the one I checked had hardly any roots at all---at a glance, you would be inclined to say it didn't have any, unless you look really closely.
 
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chris-md

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How long were they potted before you reached out? It’s been three weeks since your post, week 5 is really youre mile marker here. What you’ve described is not really surprising.
 
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noodles123

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Okay- so this is normal? I potted and cut them MAY 5th.
 

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