Vegetarian meat substitutes - anyone know if they're safe?

It's not something I'm intending to use as part of her diet, but I was wondering whether anyone knows whether meat substitutes such as tofu, Quorn, and soya products could be harmful to birds? They're common ingredients in my own diet, and Alice is becoming a master of the teatime ambush - I'd like to know where I stand if she pulls off a successful heist!

Soy based products are ok in SMALL amounts, kind of like how actual meat is ok in small amounts I've fed Kiwi bites of soy meat before. Don't make it a regular or significant part of her diet though. That quorn stuff- NO! It's of questionable safety for humans (many people, including myself, react horribly to that stuff). It shouldn't be offered to animals period. I make my own chicken alternative out of vital wheat gluten and flour, no soy (I can't tolerate much soy). I do not offer Kiwi any of that, as I'm not sure how he'd handle it. I allow him to eat as much as he wants of juice-pulp burgers (make him his own little one before adding onions to ours, it's not like we don't have tons of juice pulp around here) and lentil loaf.

I've been giving my birds straight up unsalted roasted soybeans everyday for probably 10 years now. I mix that in as part of my everyday pellet/nut/seed mix.

It's a good natural protein source, one they would normally find in nature.

Soybeans and tofu are some of the most favorite things my bird loves to eat.

Because of the apparent number of members who seem to be proponents of soy based foods, I suppose this thread or at least my reply is going to become a cause for contention.....

A 1997 article posted to the website of The Parrot Society Of The UK, but carrying a 2013 copyright pretty much decries soy bean products in the diets of a number of animals.

Soy Based Food Products for Parrots

Also, a 2006 article posted to The Guardian's website, seems to also show the dangers of feeding soy bean products to companion birds: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/03/28/avoid-using-soy-on-pets.aspx

A March 2012 newsletter article titled Here’s One Protein Dog and Cat Owners Should Steer Clear Of on the Website Healthy Pets, authored by Dr. Karen Becker goes further than the previously mentioned articles when she ends her article with "In my opinion, the potential risks associated with feeding soy are simply unacceptable … especially when you consider your carnivorous cat or dog prefers and receives a much higher level of nutrition from animal protein sources."

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/03/28/avoid-using-soy-on-pets.aspx

Though I am not vegan or vegetarian, though I have a step daughter who is, I respect an individual's right of choice, but those members who are, may find these articles enlightening also, because of the apparent dangers to some humans also.....

Excess soy is not good for any animal's diet, but no, a few bites will not harm a bird, and I think it's fine in moderation for humans as well.

Isn't Quorn made from mycoprotein, and thus soy free? We don't have as many of their products in the USA, I think, but I love the "chik'n" nuggets. Flower loves to steal bites of them too!

aether-drifter said:

Excess soy is not good for any animal's diet, but no, a few bites will not harm a bird, and I think it's fine in moderation for humans as well.

Isn't Quorn made from mycoprotein, and thus soy free? We don't have as many of their products in the USA, I think, but I love the "chik'n" nuggets. Flower loves to steal bites of them too!

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Quorn is made from "mycoprotien", or less appetizingly (but more truthfully) put- a special variety of mold. Though the company would lead one to believe it is made from mushrooms or something of the like. They grow it in large sheets in a laboratory setting, which they then process and compress into the "meat". It is also not vegan, as it contains egg as a binder. I tried it once when it was very new on the market and got violently ill. I have heard over the years that is not an uncommon reaction to their products. Of course, some people can tolerate it just fine and have no issues consuming it Still, I strongly urge you if you eat a lot of it (like multiple times a week kind of thing) to do your own research into what it is and some of the concerns surrounding it. If you just eat it ever so often, and don't react, then I wouldn't worry about it. I still wouldn't let Flower eat it. It is questionable if we humans should eat it, and most certainly not something to risk a bird eating IMO.

After posting my previous reply to this thread I went back & did some more perusing of the internet & found similar wariness to soy foods voiced on competing bird forums, along with a questionable explanation of use by Harrison's, claiming that the negative press on soy beans is a product of "anonymous claims from internet sources." I may have missed something in reading the articles that I posted earlier, but I would think that the authors are quite well identified.....might be that the particular Harrison's spin doctor that wrote that particular paragraph might have had a bad weekend or had an argument with their significant other & just missed all the verifiable claims by prominent claimants-read for yourself:

A question about soy | Harrison's Bird Foods

no soy | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum

Think twice before feeding Soy Beans

http://caiquesite.com/foods/dangerous_human_foods.htm

soy


Though it might appear I'm trying to start some controversy here, I really am not, rather I'm a firm believer that many of us are advertising junkies...too many of us tend to believe what we want, with all the glitzy advertising and marketing spin of corporate ad writers rather than doing the boring research necessary to verify or condemn what a manufacture wants you to believe, so I would rather post contravening information & let the reader make their "informed" decision, separate from even the anecdotal posts of friends & others who may not know what they're talking about.....

Of all the internet links I've been reading through, I'm going to end on "This is a tough one and requires a judgment call on the parrot owner’s part. Many parrot foods contain soy and the vast majority of parrots eat it with no negative side effects. However, there is some evidence that soy (under certain circumstances) can contain toxins or develop a type of fungus that can harm your bird. Our general policy is to treat soy like other beans and to never feed it raw unless it is one of the ingredients in a reputable parrot seed mix. Tofu and roasted “soy nuts” (unsalted) have usually been cooked in such a way that any toxins or fungus will have been destroyed and will probably not cause your bird any problems."

From the weblink Articles

So, if you want to be an "informed" parront, happy reading.....

Kiwibird said:

aether-drifter said:

Excess soy is not good for any animal's diet, but no, a few bites will not harm a bird, and I think it's fine in moderation for humans as well.

Isn't Quorn made from mycoprotein, and thus soy free? We don't have as many of their products in the USA, I think, but I love the "chik'n" nuggets. Flower loves to steal bites of them too!

Click to expand...

Quorn is made from "mycoprotien", or less appetizingly (but more truthfully) put- a special variety of mold. Though the company would lead one to believe it is made from mushrooms or something of the like. They grow it in large sheets in a laboratory setting, which they then process and compress into the "meat". It is also not vegan, as it contains egg as a binder. I tried it once when it was very new on the market and got violently ill. I have heard over the years that is not an uncommon reaction to their products. Of course, some people can tolerate it just fine and have no issues consuming it Still, I strongly urge you if you eat a lot of it (like multiple times a week kind of thing) to do your own research into what it is and some of the concerns surrounding it. If you just eat it ever so often, and don't react, then I wouldn't worry about it. I still wouldn't let Flower eat it. It is questionable if we humans should eat it, and most certainly not something to risk a bird eating IMO.

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Lab-grown compressed fungus meat....YUM! lol. I had not heard of anyone getting sick from their products. I personally like them, though I wish they were vegan.

Oh, and I don't really let Flower eat it, but she is crafty and manages to sneak a few bites of things sometimes, haha. She stalks those nuggets! But she seems more into stealing the breading than the inside.

aether-drifter said:

Lab-grown compressed fungus meat....YUM! lol. I had not heard of anyone getting sick from their products. I personally like them, though I wish they were vegan.

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I went veg in 99, and I think Quorn appeared in the US within a few years of when I stopped eating meat. I remember my mom bought it for me because it was new and the doctor said I needed to eat less soy. We assumed it was "food poisoning" and she had bought me a bad batch or cooked it wrong, but I never tried it again. Some years later, I heard formal complaints were being filed because so many people had the same adverse reaction. Though, being a totally new substance people have literally never eaten before, it may very well be theres certain people who are intolerant or allergic just like to every other food, only they get called out because it's an entirely man-made product. Though I do think they are a bit deceptive in how they represent their product. In general, I stay away from meat replacements, or make them myself where I know exactly what goes in it and that I don't have issues with it. I do get the "Gardein" brand from time to time though...

My husband actually likes a type of Quorn "chicken" that has some kind of "cheese" and cranberries inside it He doesn't eat it very often, but he's never had a reaction. He's not even a vegetarian, he just really likes the cheese and cranberries being inside the patty:32:

Oh, and I don't really let Flower eat it, but she is crafty and manages to sneak a few bites of things sometimes, haha. She stalks those nuggets! But she seems more into stealing the breading than the inside.

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The breading is usually all Kiwi goes after too, on the soy nuggets AND the real ones my hubby eats sometimes. He chucks the "meat" part. Though he is fond of the Gardien mandarin chicken, and stole a HUGE chunk one day and held on for dear life until I finally gave up trying to get it back (and he ate almost all of it too the little demon).

Interesting, lots to read up on. I've been eating Quorn products maybe once a week for as long as I can remember and I like the taste of it but but I'll read the links. I don't intend actually feeding her any of these, it's more the problem of when she wants something off my plate she can be quite crafty and very tenacious, so useful to know whether it's actually dangerous for her.

Gilbert loves tofu and tiny bites of veggie 'meat' (usually Gardein in our house). I just give him a little bite from time to time but he wants to steal it right out of my mouth! He loves it.

I do not think Quorn, and soya products can be problematic but should be given in small quantity and also check Beegans and Vegans Online Website, a vegan blog for more suggestions.

jitn89 said:

I do not think Quorn, and soya products can be problematic but should be given in small quantity and also check Beegans and Vegans Online Website, a vegan blog for more suggestions.

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You have found and are responding to an older Thread that I had not come across. In addition to the subject, it has also provide support for my opinion of individuals that I have long supported. For that, I thank you!

Regarding the subject; For any number of reasons, as these and other created stuff have come onto the market, I had stayed away from them. Likely due, in part to, a memory of words from a close friend: "Humans are old technology and mix poorly with new stuff. If whatever it is can be made from 1700's or older technology, it is likely something that the body can use without issue."

jitn89 said:

I do not think Quorn, and soya products can be problematic but should be given in small quantity and also check Beegans and Vegans Online Website, a vegan blog for more suggestions.

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For anyone reading this thread DO NOT feed Quorn brand products to your birds! It is a mycopene (fungus) based meat substitute and can cause serious GI distress in humans. If a bird had a similar reaction, they may not survive it. No need to risk it!

Soy based meat substitutes should be ok in small amounts, though there are healthier things to feed a bird, especially since most soy based substitutes contain preservatives, artificial flavors/colors, lots of salt, fat, sugar etc... The concerns with soy itself comes from the phytoestrogens, over which there is much debate over just how problematic they may or may not be. When not eaten frequently or in great quantities, soy is safe for people and birds. It's all the other stuff they add to soy meat substitutes that makes it "iffy" as something to share with a bird.

Kiwibird said:

Soy based meat substitutes should be ok in small amounts, though there are healthier things to feed a bird, especially since most soy based substitutes contain preservatives, artificial flavors/colors, lots of salt, fat, sugar etc... The concerns with soy itself comes from the phytoestrogens, over which there is much debate over just how problematic they may or may not be. When not eaten frequently or in great quantities, soy is safe for people and birds. It's all the other stuff they add to soy meat substitutes that makes it "iffy" as something to share with a bird.

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So correct about phytoestrogens, April. Very long story short, about 15 months ago I had a bout of double vision that lasted nearly 3 days. Exhaustive testing failed to find a definitive cause, though a TIA or blood vessel occlusion was suspected but not imaged. A tantalizing clue revealed by blood chemistry testing is that I have a genetic mutation that overproduces the clotting factor Prothrombin. During my consult with a hematologist I mentioned a mostly vegetarian diet and she cautioned against excessive soy consumption. For precisely the reasons you posted! So I rarely eat soy, though "splurged" on Thanksgiving with a Gardein Holiday Roast! Double vision has never returned, and I simply take one baby aspirin daily to prevent clotting.

I've noticed Qorn products but the description and ingredients seem unappetizing!

Needless to say, I don't feed any such products to my fids. Some enjoy a few edamame pods.