In my opinion, Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

Kentuckienne

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I am sure this will cause some controversy. Parrot people have been advising feeding sprouted seeds to birds, partly to help wean them off an all-seed diet, for a long time. Many folks have come to see sprouts as some sort of healthier version of seeds, beneficial to the eater. I can see how sprouting can help to transition a seed eater to a veggie-eater, but there are risks involved with feeding sprouts to people or birds, and you might at least like to know what they are.

You can google up a lot of words online about the toxicity of beans and sprouts. Short answer, many beans, legumes, contain toxins that are only destroyed by cooking, and should not be eaten raw. The common red kidney bean is one of these. There are arguments that the benefits of sprouting outweigh the risk of a small amount of toxin.

I don't believe there is a significant benefit to eating a sprouted bean. What happens with sprouts is the stored starch and proteins begin to be converted into more easily digestible (for humans) forms. But there are no miraculous new compounds created by sprouting to make any difference in your health. I think it's something about the sprout, being in this mysterious place where it's more than a seed but less than a boring plant, and anything so full of life must then confer that life on the eater. That's called sympathetic magic, like eating a lion's heart to become strong, and has no basis in fact.

The real danger of sprouts is in the bacterial load they inherit from the seed.

Sprouted seeds, I believe it was mung beans, were responsible for an e.coli outbreak in Germany that killed more than 30 people and left others with kidney damage. Sprouts are believed to have caused the worst outbreaks of e.coli infections in the world. How did it happen?

First, think of where seeds come from. They are out in the field, surrounded by nature, and nature is full of bacteria and fungi. Some of these settle on the seeds. Then, the seeds are harvested and stored in big silos or barns or tubs or baskets or whatever unsterilized thing is big enough to hold them. The bacteria begin to go dormant as the seed dries up, but they don't die.

Now, you take those non-sterile beans, soak the in water to distribute the pathogens on one seed to all of them, then keep them warm or at least at room temperature for a day or more. Would you eat a hamburger left on the counter for two days? What happens is exponential growth of any pathogens present.

Then the sprouts get washed, which doesn't remove the pathogens, and stored in the fridge, which doesn't kill the pathogens, then fed to people with warm digestive tracts perfect for more growth.

What kind of bacteria? E.coli, salmonella, listeria, and many more. If you know someone who says they have the "24 hour flu" what they have is probably food poisoning. Sprouts are very common now, and it's difficult to trace back an outbreak to the source, much less a single case.

I argue that the risk of infection from a sprout is far greater than any possible benefit. If you have a bird that will ONLY eat seeds, and they WILL eat sprouts, then maybe do it as a stopgap measure. If the bird will eat steamed sprouts, or otherwise cooked long enough/hot enough to destroy pathogens, that would be better. Then get them off the sprouts as soon as you can.

I can't think of a single benefit, other than modification of diet, that comes from eating sprouts that can't be supplied otherwise. Parrots live a long time, and the longer the exposure to sprouted foods the greater the chance of running into a contaminated batch. They are sensitive to pathogens and it's very hard to diagnose and treat these infections in birds.

Don't feed any sprouts to birds. Don't feed any uncooked beans to birds or eat them yourself. Be careful of where your seeds come from, choosing only human-grade nuts and seeds for food. Store them properly, in the freezer to prevent rancidity if they won't be consumed in a short time, wash the container every time you put new seeds in it, and throw away any seeds with mold, fungus, discoloration, or funny smells. It's a small thing we can do for them.
 
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plumsmum2005

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

Wow that is some sharp stick! Will come back in a bit.

To start with the Kidney Bean is not one that I would sprout and on any lists I have seen, anyone with a shred of common sense should realise that if you have to cook it for so long to remove toxins then sprouting it is not going to do it, is it?

I always use GSE (Grapefruit Seed Extract) as recommended by Leslie Morán. This has been shown to be effective against 800 bacteria and virus strains, 100 strains of fungus and a large number of single cell parasites. FYI studies have also concluded that GSE is effective in killing numerous gram negative and gram positive bacteria, fungus and yeast including but not limited to staphylococcus, strep, candida, salmonella, e-coli, and giardia. Due to it's natural antibacterial and antifungal properties using GSE during the soaking process when sprouting for birds as a preventative measure will stop bacteria and mold before it can even get started. The antimicrobial properties occur at very low concentrations.

Sproutable foods have between seven and 40% protein, during germination starches are converted into simple sugars, protein chains are broken down into their basic amino acids, fats are converted into soluble fatty acids and vitamins are produced. Sprouts are a rich source of Vit A, C, E, B as well as antioxidants. For example Vit C in Oats increases 600% after sprouting.

I believe you are wrong in your recommendation not to feed sprouts and suggest you have a look for Leslie Moran and do some research. It is not possible to 100% guarantee that any food for ourselves or our fids are completely safe and in this day and age of money and profit margins rule, will get harder as short cuts are taken to produce food for this well overstocked and wasteful world.

Foods that can be sprouted fall into 4 categories: seeds, grains, legumes and nuts. (ALWAYS BUY GOOD QUALITY FOODSTUFFS TO SPROUT ESSENTIALLY ORGANIC)
Seeds - fenugreek, flax, millet, pumpkin, radish, sesame, safflower and sunflower.
Grains - amaranth, quinoa, unhulled barley, buckwheat groats, brown rice, wheat berries, rye and whole oats.
Legumes - alfalfa, red clover, adzuki beans, mung beans, garbanzo/chick peas, black turtle beans and french lentils. Soy and pinto beans BUT NO KIDNEY BEANS!!!
 
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Flboy

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

I agree with some of your arguments, certain beans must not be eaten raw, or undercooked! I make many bean dishes and used to make the mistake of cooking them at a too low temperature. Yes, they were tender, but still contained toxins, ugly bathroom tails!
But every food has it's risks if handled incorrectly! Look at meat! OMG, a dead animal, partially decomposed, and you are going to eat it? Yep!
Vegetable and greens(sprouts too) have the ability to pull minerals out of the soil in a form that we can use.
There is much more magic to sprouting than simple starch conversion. Risks? Depends on many factors!
 
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Kentuckienne

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

I am a very gullible person and easily convinced by facts. Google health benefits of grapefruit seed extract and yes, there are lots of positive references. I think the Wikipedia entry for it has the best neutral summary. Detailed research studies found no anti microbial properties in GSE, and the extract available to consumers contains other compounds, added to it during processing - such as benzethonium chloride and benzalkonium chloride - which are responsible for the observed antimicronial effects in prior studies. More and more, natural health practitioners are recommending that GSE should only be used topically and not taken internally.

I don't claim that sprouting of seeds doesn't improve their nutritional profile - only that it doesn't add any nutrients that can't be obtained otherwise from foods that don't carry the risk of the increased bacterial load created by sprouting seeds in warm, moist conditions.

Really not intending to wave a sharp stick around! I do try to keep most quibbles to myself, but there have been so many posts lately relating to sprouting that I jumped in. I did a lot of research on this a few years back when I was making some dietary changes, and many things - including GSE data - caught my attention, and I've been paying attention when I see things come across the news. Sprouts I had been on the fence until that huge outbreak in Germany a few years back that killed many people, which made me dig into it again and confirmed my reservations.

Even if seeds could be completely sterilized before sprouting - and they can't - the incubation process would bring the numbers right back up. And it's not possible to completely sterilize the finished product, either, as pathogens can be deeply embedded. GSE is not a selective antimicronial in any case, killing good bacteria along with bad.

Everybody can and will decide for themselves what to feed the fids. I only want to make some contradictory information available to anyone researching the subject. This is what peer review is all about - you show me your sources, and I'll show you mine, and folks can make informed choices based on a wider range of information. Much love to all of you, everything here is based on love!
 

chris-md

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

The concern over E. coli is a valid concern. warm moist environments are prime conditions for bacterial growth.

That said, a bit of common sense and following standard procedure for frequent rinses go a long way to mitigating the risks such that they really aren't much of a concern when done properly.

And yes there are plenty of things that don't belong on a sprouting list. A bit of simple research will Reveal all these.
 

plumsmum2005

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

You leave me speechless and we will let the readers of your posts decide for themselves.

Much love to you too!
 

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

Ughh, and we know how messy love is!
 

SailBoat

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

This discussion has me looking at my long held belief that the 24 hour Flu is not the Flu.

And on the lighter side, is you're going to sprout something, just let it go all the way to Beer! Much safer.

Great discussion!

I'm thinking that reality /truth will likely be found between the two end points with some seeds found just to dangerous and others safer.
 

plumsmum2005

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

This discussion has me looking at my long held belief that the 24 hour Flu is not the Flu.

And on the lighter side, is you're going to sprout something, just let it go all the way to Beer! Much safer.

Great discussion!

I'm thinking that reality /truth will likely be found between the two end points with some seeds found just to dangerous and others safer.

Don't think seeds germinate in Pedigree unfortunately ;)
 

SailBoat

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

This discussion has me looking at my long held belief that the 24 hour Flu is not the Flu.

And on the lighter side, is you're going to sprout something, just let it go all the way to Beer! Much safer.

Great discussion!

I'm thinking that reality /truth will likely be found between the two end points with some seeds found just to dangerous and others safer.

Don't think seeds germinate in Pedigree unfortunately ;)

Dang it! And, that was going to be my story to the Mrs' as part a my healthier diet program for 2017!
 

Flboy

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

This discussion has me looking at my long held belief that the 24 hour Flu is not the Flu.

And on the lighter side, is you're going to sprout something, just let it go all the way to Beer! Much safer.

Great discussion!

I'm thinking that reality /truth will likely be found between the two end points with some seeds found just to dangerous and others safer.

Agree, many cases of 24 hour Flu is mild food poisoning! I used to eat many stupid old things out of the fridge. I do not get colds, but gee, every other week, a 'stomach virus'. Duh!
I am a home brewer, and will tell you, my JoJo loves malted barley kernels!
 

SailBoat

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

This discussion has me looking at my long held belief that the 24 hour Flu is not the Flu.

And on the lighter side, is you're going to sprout something, just let it go all the way to Beer! Much safer.

Great discussion!

I'm thinking that reality /truth will likely be found between the two end points with some seeds found just to dangerous and others safer.

Agree, many cases of 24 hour Flu is mild food poisoning! I used to eat many stupid old things out of the fridge. I do not get colds, but gee, every other week, a 'stomach virus'. Duh!
I am a home brewer, and will tell you, my JoJo loves malted barley kernels!

This is great information! I can reword the discussion and get our Amazon on my side! With him on my side I'm sure to convince her!!!

Yaaa, traveled far to much prior to retirement. Any over-night reaction had me crossing specific eateries off my list! I went to all 24 hour flu is mild food poisoning! Your being to kind!
 

OutlawedSpirit

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

Hmm...now you have me thinking. I will need to look more into what you are saying, if for no other reason than to satisfy my curiosity now.
 
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Kentuckienne

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Re: Sprouts are not safe for birds to eat.

Hmm...now you have me thinking. I will need to look more into what you are saying, if for no other reason than to satisfy my curiosity now.

I would be grateful for anything you share. It isn't easy to find real information online. So much depends on what I search for. If I search for "sprouts cure cancer" I'll find supporting evidence. If I search for "sprouts are Satan's fingernail clippings" I'll find supporting evidence. I wind up reading things on both sides and looking to see what research the article cites, and then go look at that original source. If I find many references to "everyone knows" or "of course" then I assign it to anecdotal evidence which may or may not mean something. If I find an article in a peer-reviewed journal, it carries more weight but I still have to consider the source - was the study funded by a commercial pet food vendor? And hopefully, I get to something I actually know something about, like a chemical structure or a description of some kind of process that I can validate on my own. The more eyes who truly look, the better, and the better chance of arriving at the most accurate explanations.

But nothing is truly binary, and the middle ground is everywhere. I figure, at the very least someone who likes to feed sprouts will compromise on frequent washing or whatever practice turns out to be considered safest, and someone who feels uncomfortable with them won't need to feel like a bad mommy for avoiding them.

''''''''

I found that it usually took me at least a couple weeks of eating local cuisine to dare the street markets, and have survived skate cooked in a half oil drum in a Malaysian street market and puffer fish sushi in Japan, yet succumbed to four days of near-fatal illness from a frozen dinner I bought at Safeway in California.
 

chris-md

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Kentuckienne you often just have to use your common sense in many cases. With sprouts, there is an entire industry surrounding them. For everyone you know that eat them or feeds them to their animals, how many cases can you think of where someone got E. coli poisoning?

There's always risk inherent in everything we do. There's a risk I'll break my hip bone falling as I'm walking. But as a 32 year old male, do I really need to be overly concerned about that risk?
 

Flboy

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This may set everyone on edge, but my method is a bit different for sprouts. And if absolutely wrong, changes tomorrow!
I use a lot of sprouts, Tops, Napoleon, and All in one. Also(becoming my favorite) Abba Seed Soak. Abba's approach is different. Their seeds have a lot of hard minerals mixed in, and at first, I was a bit concerned. Their approach to sprouting is to delay the first rinse. At first I didn't understand why, then it clicked! The growing seed pulled in the minerals, thus making it usable for digestion!
So much for the sales pitch! My deviation!
I sprout a small amount two/three times a week- remember, my bud is a single GCC-
But when I put it out for JoJo, I put it in a fairly large dish, so it dries very quickly.
Very quick is 3-4 hours tops.
Pellets for him are, Roudybush, Tops, Zupreen-colored and 'natural'. Except for Tops, the others, first ingredients? Corn or soy! By the way, this stinker? He has several hangouts each with it's own food, you change it an both you and the food are trash!

I feel with the sprouts dried, I remove the risk of spoilage, at a small sacrifice of nutrition. Tast test? JoJo gives a real, ?thumbs? Up!
 

Rival_of_the_Rickeybird

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Speaking as a bit of an outsider...... rival, all that......
I'm also a regular cyclist, health nut, "natural foods (what IS that even?) devotee"......
I dont do sprouts. Too much controversy, not that delicious.
 

plumsmum2005

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Here is an artical relating to food poisoning in Germany https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jun/06/e-coli-germany-bean-sprouts

Interestingly they also also said to avoid raw cucumbers, tomatoes and salad leaves so will be expecting another thread on avoiding these possibly in the near future?

I do in fact remember health scares relating to imported bean sprouts for stir fries and salads among many other health scares that are issued.
 

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