Some questions about corn

Couldn't fall asleep because I keep thinking about this business of toe tapping in eclectus parrots that's maybe connected to corn in the diet. Why corn? Is there something in the nutritional makeup of the corn, that some birds can't digest it? Is is something about the mechanical structure with the indigestible outer bran maybe irritating or blocking the walls of the digestive tract? Why do so many people advocate corn as a great food for ekkies, and some say avoid it?

I found info about corn being notorious for harboring mycotoxins, some of which cause neurological damage: https://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/pp/notes/Corn/corn001.htm

A huge percentage of commercial corn is genetically modified. For example, Round-up kills corn, but there is a Roundup-resistant strain that allows the corn to be treated with this herbicide, so a lot of it is used on corn. Roundup affects cholinesterase which can cause significant neurological problems, but is there enough of that in corn to bother a parrot?

Also some genetically modified corn contains genes taken from Bt - botulinum toxin - which kills the bugs before they can eat much of it. What does it do to parrots?

Add to this that the eclectus has a longer digestive tract, meaning they pull more of everything out of their food, whether it's vitamins or toxins. Dr. Speers wrote that this is a reason not to feed pellets, which are usually all doped up with extra vitamins. He says it nicer than that:
"toe-tapping" in Eclectus Parrot

That's all the relevant info I could find. I think I'll start buying organic corn. And not give any to Gus.

Ok, now all my corn-fusion is out of my brain, so I can maybe sleep now. Would be immensely grateful for any enlightenment on the subject.

I like corn...Clark likes corn...I really think that's all we have to contribute to the subject.

Unfortunately it’s not just corn. Someone here, I forget who, connected it to blueberries for her bird.

It’s possibly a minor symptom of hypervitaminosis, excess vitamins from extra vitamin rich foods. People always say longer tract = higher fiber, which is true. Also, longer tract = more efficient absorption. Also true, and KEY. Why do they need a longer system in nature?

It’s a sign that hey are adapted to a vitamin deficient diet in the wild, and need that extra surface area to extract every last possible drop of nutrition. Their diet in nature is relatively vitamin deficient compared to other parrots. This is their way of adapting tot heir food source.

It’s just a sign you have to be mindful of what you give your birds at all times.

Whats a macaw owner doing losing sleep over this issue anyways? leave that worry at the feet of those of us who actually have to loose sleep

This is why I do my best to eat only non-gmo corn! This ‘stuff’ introduced at such a level,in the food bypasses any natural defenses we may have! You are what you eat!

When I started down the road of finding a diet to extend our time with our Amazons, I looked at what types of 'foods' was available in their different regions. As each new arrival took-over the the house, I would look at its region. What I found was Central and South America had both widely spread 'food' types and also highly specialized 'food' types. As a result, the mixture for each member changes and became more specific.

Interestingly; corn, peanuts and sunflower seeds are rare to non-existing in South America and only in very specific regions in Central America and the far southern edge of North America.

Considering that until the late 1600's corn was unheard of anywhere outside of the Americas.

Amazons are very prone to health problems when their diet includes varying levels of both Sunflower and Peanuts. I am not aware of any studies that have looked at the effects of corn! Its vast rarity over the wide range Amazons populate should at least bring some questions into play.

As a pure guess; Corn provided to any Parrot outside of the Americas could easily be seen as a potential source of health problems and that would be prior to any discussion regarding the genetically modified variants.

Foods = The wide variation of plants and bugs available by region! Also types of clays available to off-set or balance their digestive chemistry!

We provide a very limited amount of Pellets as part of our Amazon's diet as we continue to reconfigure the dry food mixture to match available 'foods' from their natural region.

I think it is too early to 100% pull Pellets from any Parrots diet with the exception of maybe the Eclectus species. That said with great caution, since I have no wear near the knowledge base with them as I do with Amazons.

I’m not sure you can quite break it down like that, Boatsy. This logic of “its not endemic to my habitat, ergo it’s bad for me” means humans are screeeeeeeeeeewed.

chris-md said:

I’m not sure you can quite break it down like that, Boatsy. This logic of “its not endemic to my habitat, ergo it’s bad for me” means humans are screeeeeeeeeeewed.

Click to expand...

I truly understand what you are saying. I think that I failed to go a bit deeper and as a result understated the effect of volume as a percentage of the mixture. But even that is a bit weak! I should have consider that based on the vast variation of diets Humans consume compared to regions, compared to the length of our track!

On the reverse side as the volume of sunflower and/or peanuts are added to an Amazons diet, the greater health problems they have.

Thanks for pointing that out!

So, that 'Roundup' chaser is not a bad idea!?!

Just as a little bit of a counter point, ALL corn we eat is genetically modified. Corn wasn't edible before we selectively bred and cross bred (which is still considered genetically modifying!)

While Roundup and Monsanto crops are a problem, even "organic" produce still has it's major downfalls, and those organic pesticides can cause more of an issue than chemical ones, and many of them are retained in the crops and soil over time.

There's really no right answer for dealing with produce, but my best advice is to buy local if you can, and ask questions about how the produce is grown.

As for Eclectus and neurological symptoms, I believe there are a lot of factors that go into it. It's hard to say if excess vitamins cause the issues, because many vitamins are water soluble, meaning what's not used will be passed through without issue. Issues mostly arise with fat soluble vitamins, as they're not as easily passed and tend to accumulate in the body. Most (healthy) parrots have little body fat, but have very sensitive bodies. Vitamin A is likely one of the culprits in neurological symptoms, even though it's an important part of their diet. It comes in many forms and it's possible that the form found in most pellets (which are fortified) is incompatible with their body and accumulates in an unusable form because they absorb more of it than intended for the average parrot.

The same can be said for other types of fat soluble vitamins, especially ones that come in different forms, and may affect food choices for each individual.

I've long been aware of GMO controversy and have many questions. Perhaps the most basic is the process of digestion from a raw or cooked food to the elemental constituents that are processed by the body.

My ignorant layperson assumption is the body absorbs needed nutrients, but are they markedly different based on origin? Does the body distinguish between a digested tomato, kernel of corn, or piece of spinach based on origin as GMO or naturally seeded? Or is the concern altered foods introduce elements we have difficulty processing?

I'm not paranoid about GMO stuff in general. Breeding for selective traits is a form of genetic modification. But inserting genetic material from another species is a bit farther along the spectrum. The major point there was that the modification allows the corn to contain higher levels of pesticide residue, along with some insecticidal chemicals (Bt genetic material) and that these higher levels might cause problems in a sensitive bird. Roundup is a cholinesterase inhibitor, which can cause elevated levels of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. In Parkinson's disease, decreasing levels of dopamine leave the acetylcholine unopposed (they sort of work against one another) resulting in tremor, locking up, and other muscular problems. It seems not impossible that high levels of residual organophosphate might affect cholinesterase levels and cause some neurological problems. But I don't have any idea what normal levels are for a parrot...

Eckies are diet sensitive birds. Some are more sensitive than others.

Macaws and amazons are little piggies. My birds would inhale corn if I let them have it all the time. I do occasionally give them corn on the cob. But the issue with macs and zons isn't toe tap, it's FAT BIRDS...

Round is no an ideal shape for a macaw.