TOY or TERROR? Opinions, please...

GaleriaGila · Aug 24, 2016

I posted this in the Rickeybird's Scrapbook (link in my Signature), but... moderators, may I post in separate thread? I know everybody doesn't necessarily check the Rb's book regularly, and I really want some opinions, please. I keep worrying about this issue. Am I traumatizing him or entertaining him?

[ORIGINAL POST]

Here is my knight in shining feather, doing battle with two great demons, the Bouncey Ball (thanks to Mr. Wrench for the give-away!) and the Yellow Disc. He subdues them and ejects them from his penthouse in short order. One thing I still wonder... how can I be sure he's having fun, not vanquishing stress-inducing enemies? Then again, maybe a little vanquishing is good for a mighty warrior rooster now and then. Opinions, please???

My hero!

The Bouncey Ball ... begone!

The Yellow Disc ... he's screaming "NO!" but he doesn't sound his Ns very well.

Allee · Aug 24, 2016

Yes, you may post in a separate thread, perfectly okay under these circumstances.

Thank the RB for sharing his fight video! Bravo, RB, you truly are a mighty warrior. Oh no, does the RB have a new rival?

I don't know your boy personally but it looks like he was having a great time! My quakers love to kill stuff they find on top of their cages. I think it's good for them to conquer evil toys!

SailBoat · Aug 25, 2016

As I was watching your videos, it came to me that the energy that your King was putting into this play was near equal, if not equal, to an attack on a fool that challenged his Kingdom. So, it could be taken as a warning to the fool that this is but a small sample of what would be in store should you ever make much an unwise move.

However, it also seem to me that this kind of play also serves as a release valve for the energy that sits naturally available, On Call, if you will. This to support a natural fight or flight response. It also occurred to me that if a 'release' is not provided we likely have Parrots that are loaded with energy and could be consider 'Locked and Loaded' and the smallest push maybe just enough to trigger an unexpected response.

Most of us have come to know that a Parrot that is overly tried from a lack of sleep is more likely to have behavioral problems then one that has a healthy sleep cycle. So, what is the likelihood that on the other end of the scale, a Parrot that has little or no release of stored energy is not just as likely to present behavioral problems?

It has been a very common position of members here, including myself, that providing our Parrots with 'Toys' is a very positive thing. That providing our Parrots with activities that allow them to 'self entertain' is very important to their overall health and happiness.

So, it would seem that 'Toys' that inspire our Parrots to push what could be seen as 'measured' aggressive behavior toward 'Toys' is likely or is a healthy thing - compared to it teaching aggressive behavior. Clearly, if taken to a point that the play transitions into an emotionally 'Overload' Parrot - that is not a good thing and play should be halted before that occurs.

Returning to your Video, I would guess that play stops when 'The King' has tied of play, or you have tried of placing the Toy back into play, or likely a combination of the two, correct? Regardless, the play does not come to a point that the Parrot becomes emotionally 'Overloaded.' That all being true, I would say that you are not teaching your King TERROR, you are simply providing a release. After all, he already knows the TERROR part all to well.

jenphilly · Aug 25, 2016

The best way to know what he really thinks of the items is to put them into a toy bucket mixed in with toys you know he loves to play with. If he takes the ball out and plays with it and tosses it off the cage and watches it bounce, then safe to say he is only playing. If he goes from playing with items in his toy bucket to being very animated and vocal, then it might be something that he sees as a threat.

I would not say he is afraid of them, there is not a fear response, no sense of retreat, more the 'I'll kick your butt' behavior, which can still be play, just big tough bird play

jenphilly · Aug 25, 2016

and by the way, he's gorgeous!!

Flboy · Aug 25, 2016

SailBoat said:
As I was watching your videos, it came to me that the energy that your King was putting into this play was near equal, if not equal, to an attack on a fool that challenged his Kingdom. So, it could be taken as a warning to the fool that this is but a small sample of what would be in store should you ever make much an unwise move.

However, it also seem to me that this kind of play also serves as a release valve for the energy that sits naturally available, On Call, if you will. This to support a natural fight or flight response. It also occurred to me that if a 'release' is not provided we likely have Parrots that are loaded with energy and could be consider 'Locked and Loaded' and the smallest push maybe just enough to trigger an unexpected response.

Most of us have come to know that a Parrot that is overly tried from a lack of sleep is more likely to have behavioral problems then one that has a healthy sleep cycle. So, what is the likelihood that on the other end of the scale, a Parrot that has little or no release of stored energy is not just as likely to present behavioral problems?

It has been a very common position of members here, including myself, that providing our Parrots with 'Toys' is a very positive thing. That providing our Parrots with activities that allow them to 'self entertain' is very important to their overall health and happiness.

So, it would seem that 'Toys' that inspire our Parrots to push what could be seen as 'measured' aggressive behavior toward 'Toys' is likely or is a healthy thing - compared to it teaching aggressive behavior. Clearly, if taken to a point that the play transitions into an emotionally 'Overload' Parrot - that is not a good thing and play should be halted before that occurs.

Returning to your Video, I would guess that play stops when 'The King' has tied of play, or you have tried of placing the Toy back into play, or likely a combination of the two, correct? Regardless, the play does not come to a point that the Parrot becomes emotionally 'Overloaded.' That all being true, I would say that you are not teaching your King TERROR, you are simply providing a release. After all, he already knows the TERROR part all to well.

Easy for you to say!

OutlawedSpirit · Aug 25, 2016

Gail, I wouldn't worry about terrorizing the RB. Honestly, if he was that "terrorized" by it, he could just fly away, since he is fully flighted. I think he is just playing with it. Just like a predator we keep as a pet, such as a dog, will play with toy as though it is prey, I think prey animals will play with toys as though they are a threat. It keeps them "in practice" so to speak in case they are faced with an actual threat. Or maybe the RB is practicing in case Mr. Rival steps out of line with "his" girl.

wrench13 · Aug 25, 2016

Wow, Gail, he is still playing with the bouncy ball? He beats up on it then overboard it goes. Funny, you are the only recipient of one of the free toys who regularly posts here. Oh and one other. Keep them both toys, he gets a kick out of them at least. Nothing worse then buying a toy only to have it sit forever, un-played with.

GaleriaGila · Aug 25, 2016

Allee, many thanks. I'm looking forward to opinions. Yes, he's a mighty victor! His tail is kinda short because those two longest feathers are growing out during his big moult. Still mighty!

Sailboat, as always, you provide such great analysis. Your thoughts made me go take another look at a video of a colony of wild Rickeybirds, which I found for the Scrapbook. The males DO spend a lot of time spatting (sometimes involving flap-fighting and snapping) in defending their areas so it really does seem to be a natural part of their lives for which they're biochemically hard-wired, if I understand you correctly. I also note that when he has tossed his "opponent" over the side, he calms down at once and seems to return to other toys (which he doesn't hate) or food or preening or whatever. As for tiring, I never replace thosde two toys more than a couple of times, due to having been worried about the effects... now I'm inclined to see how long he will go at it. I have learned not to put them both up there at once... the battle is epic: he attacks one, then the other, back and forth, and finally tosses them. He is out of breath by that time. Flying around the room doesn't get him winded, so fighting must really take a lot of energy! Thanks.

jenphilly, I do agree with you... it DOES look like "I'll kick your butt" attitude. If the evil toys are in a pile of toys on cage-top, he will get right on them, again, tossing them off. If it's on the floor, he will chase and beat and bite them endlessly, it seems. When he gets winded, I have taken them up. Thanks for the compliment!!! His tail and wings are a little short due to the longest ones not grown in to full length yet (his big yearly moult is coming to an end).

Flboy... lol

Outlaw, he COULD fly away, couldn't he? Sure, he's defending his territory, but he has indeed on occasion gotten so fresked out over something he flew. One occasion was when I was doing some cage cleaning and knocked a bowl of water over... what a mess... he flew away. I guess he was like "Hen, I love you, but I'm not gonna get killed for ya. Good luck fighting that water-monster!"

Mr. Wrench, YESSSS he's still keenly attacking and tossing that ball. The yellow disc hangs and plays music... SOMETIMES he likes it, sometimes not. If it's hanging inside, it's okay. If it invades his cage-top... HASTA LA VISTA, BAYBEEEE!!! The ball? Oh, it's just plain evil... probably born that way.

Thanks, everybody, I learned a lot.

Terry57 · Aug 25, 2016

Jury, the Jenday, does that with anything I put on his cage. He attacks it crazily, throws it as far as he can...and then looks at it in the floor waiting for me to put it back up there.

GaleriaGila · Aug 25, 2016

I'm just starting to think that manly male macho parrots need an outlet for their manly macho maleness.

SailBoat · Aug 25, 2016

GaleriaGila said:
Allee, many thanks. I'm looking forward to opinions. Yes, he's a mighty victor! His tail is kinda short because those two longest feathers are growing out during his big moult. Still mighty!

Sailboat, as always, you provide such great analysis. Your thoughts made me go take another look at a video of a colony of wild Rickeybirds, which I found for the Scrapbook. The males DO spend a lot of time spatting (sometimes involving flap-fighting and snapping) in defending their areas so it really does seem to be a natural part of their lives for which they're biochemically hard-wired, if I understand you correctly. I also note that when he has tossed his "opponent" over the side, he calms down at once and seems to return to other toys (which he doesn't hate) or food or preening or whatever. As for tiring, I never replace thosde two toys more than a couple of times, due to having been worried about the effects... now I'm inclined to see how long he will go at it. I have learned not to put them both up there at once... the battle is epic: he attacks one, then the other, back and forth, and finally tosses them. He is out of breath by that time. Flying around the room doesn't get him winded, so fighting must really take a lot of energy! Thanks.

jenphilly, I do agree with you... it DOES look like "I'll kick your butt" attitude. If the evil toys are in a pile of toys on cage-top, he will get right on them, again, tossing them off. If it's on the floor, he will chase and beat and bite them endlessly, it seems. When he gets winded, I have taken them up. Thanks for the compliment!!! His tail and wings are a little short due to the longest ones not grown in to full length yet (his big yearly moult is coming to an end).

Flboy... lol

Outlaw, he COULD fly away, couldn't he? Sure, he's defending his territory, but he has indeed on occasion gotten so fresked out over something he flew. One occasion was when I was doing some cage cleaning and knocked a bowl of water over... what a mess... he flew away. I guess he was like "Hen, I love you, but I'm not gonna get killed for ya. Good luck fighting that water-monster!"

Mr. Wrench, YESSSS he's still keenly attacking and tossing that ball. The yellow disc hangs and plays music... SOMETIMES he likes it, sometimes not. If it's hanging inside, it's okay. If it invades his cage-top... HASTA LA VISTA, BAYBEEEE!!! The ball? Oh, it's just plain evil... probably born that way.

Thanks, everybody, I learned a lot.

Thanks. You always catch the underlining stuff!

No reason to push beyond where you are currently. Its a very thin line between starting to get tired or going 'Overloaded.'

GaleriaGila · Aug 25, 2016

Sailboat, thanks. Now that I'm looking for the right signs, I really pretty clearly see that he relishes vanquishing his enemies several times, looking over the cliff to make sure they had a nasty fall, then kinda backing up, ready to go again. Then after a few epic battles, he's winded and he gets more of an upset, tall, skinny posture, and then I just let the toys stay dead. Then he does his "I'm BAD" strut and all is well in the kingdom.

Printer bird · Aug 25, 2016

Thanks so much for the great videos, I love watching the Rickybird in action!

I'm sure they enjoy it! As evidence I present my (now passed) conure, Charlie, who would live quite pleasantly with a toy in his cage and then all of a sudden: screaming! yelling! shaking! clicking! climbing! Then, when the "enemy" was vanquished he'd ignore it or go sit under it and turn the toy into a hat. If it was truly a problem, he'd have never left it alone. I think it was a necessary outlet. Somewhat related was my parrotlet (also passed) who hated when things were on top of her cage. Our "party trick" was to place a rugby ball on her cage and she would go at it, an angry fluffy green ball of pure madness, pushing it and rocking it, until it fell off the cage whereupon she would yell at it briefly and then go back to her day. My pi is much more gentle and doesn't play as hard or much with her toys but will chew and toss a bit of wood around and slip upside down under her branches to better chew at some paper or a toy.

TOY or TERROR? Opinions, please...

GaleriaGila

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Allee

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SailBoat

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jenphilly

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jenphilly

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Flboy

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OutlawedSpirit

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wrench13

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GaleriaGila

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Terry57

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GaleriaGila

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SailBoat

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GaleriaGila

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Printer bird

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