Lily Update

AkridChaos

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Aug 31, 2017
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Parrots
Rescue Budgie: Snowball (blue/grey)
Normal Budgie: Oliver (yellow/green)
Black Capped Conure: Warbeak
Parrotlet: Lily, Rest In Peace
Canary-Winged Parakeet: Stryker
Alright guys. Thought I’d keep everyone informed on what’s been going on with my little spunky green plucking monster. I just had a vet visit with her (we determined plucking is behavioral, since she has gotten better with it in my care). Well I now have to take her back to the vet this Wednesday. Last week (Wednesday night) she started wheezing again (first occurrence was on 4/20 when I got home from work), most prominently heard after short flights across the room or when overly excited (play time or if I accidentally bump the cage when pulling food/water dishes out). I’m not 100% sure what caused it but I have two thoughts what could potentially have started it.

The first thought is the recent diet change. Lily and Snowball are housed together. I recently was able to make a breakthrough on pellets and able to incorporate them into their daily food (separate dishes though) When I get home, the pellets are all gone. I’ve been trying to slowly incorporate more pellets and less seed, to be about half and half. However, it’s actually possible Lily wasn’t eating the pellets at all, and it was actually Snowball eating all the pellets at the time, although recently I have seen them both eating the pellets (I made absolute certain to watch when the wheezing started on 4/20) so I’m not 100% sure this is the case, unless: she was eating only the seeds for a while, and it’s pretty close to half and half now. Either she was refusing to eat the pellets after finishing the seed, or it forced her to eat the pellets, both options potentially made her sick. Both options technically my fault for not being more aware of who was eating what before cutting down on the seeds and just assuming they were both eating their pellets and seeds at the time. But again I’m not sure this is the case, because I’ve seen them both mowing down on the pellets after watching them night time of 4/20.

The other, more likely option to me, is a new toy bird hut I had put in both their cage and Warbeak’s cage on 4/20. This one would be entirely my fault for being ignorant. I’ve never bought a fabric “toy” for birds before. It never even crossed my mind to add a smell test to a toy before. I feel stupid for not even thinking about it before putting these huts in their cages, because I know birds have sensitive lungs. I feel like it just should’ve clicked in my brain to smell these things. I just did the standard check of making sure they wouldn’t be able to hurt themselves on these things or accidentally swallow something small etc. Well I put it in their cages before work on 4/20. Left at 2:30pm. Came home at 11:15pm. Warbeak was fine. Snowball was fine. Lily was not. She was all puffed up and audibly wheezing (much like she does now in short flights or over excitement), and THAT’S when it clicked in my brain “GO SMELL THE HUT RIGHT NOW DUMMY!!” Dear lord, the smell of chemicals on this thing. Not wreaking of it, you absolutely had to put your nose up against it to smell it. But still, you could definitely smell it upon sticking your nose up to it and huffing it. How can you make a toy for birds but then have it smell that badly of chemicals?! This could have easily ended poorly and I would be half to blame for being so stupid as to not thinking to smell these things. I promptly removed all huts from their cages after that and moved the huts to a separate room. Even washed them that weekend but it still smells of chemical, so I think I’ll give it one more chance in the wash, and if it still smells, toss them. I don’t trust it. I’m so lucky none of them died while I was at work, if I had stayed for overtime, Lily could easily have gotten really bad and Warbeak/Snowball would likely have had symptoms of wheezing as well. Vet was closed that weekend, earliest I could call for scheduling an appointment was Monday, but over the weekend Lily seemed perfect again (she wasn’t super terrible Friday night where I feared she was at risk of death. It’s just the wheezing really scared me where I knew better to not schedule an appointment just in case). So I don’t doubt the hut is the cause if removing it stopped her wheezing, even if temporarily. Because Lily was fine, I scheduled the appointment for this Wednesday, to work around my Mom’s work schedule (I sadly don’t have a drivers license still. I’m a terrible driver). But about halfway through last week, she started that wheezing after short flights and when excited. Which makes me glad I scheduled a visit for her regardless how fine she seemed on 4/21-4/25, but upset I didn’t see that she was doing what birds tend to do best, which is pretending to be ok.

I guess let this be a lesson to anyone who has never bought a fabric toy for your fid(s), SMELL THE TOY FIRST. As in, actually put your nose up in it and smell it. Because that’s what it took for me to smell those chemicals. They were there, but not obviously so. If I had gotten a whiff of it when doing my standard new toy inspections, they would have never gone anywhere near their cages. I almost wish it smelled that badly where I didn’t have to put my nose up to it. It would’ve potentially prevented this entire thing from happening and I would’ve learned without toy hut going into the cage “smell test is necessary from this point forward”.

So definitely when we go to the vet on Wednesday, I’ll relate both things (diet change and bird hut), and hopefully it will at least help the vet narrow down the potential causes instead of grasping at straws. I might even take one of the huts with me, seal it in a bag, to see if she thinks that was the more likely cause than the diet. Personally I think it is, since I’ve seen her actively eating pellets after her first wheezing incident on 4/20, and removing the hut on 4/20 caused her to stop wheezing over the weekend until about 4/25 at night. Scary thinking about what could’ve happened if I had stayed late at work on 4/20 instead of wanting so bad to just come home to the fids. That is, if the huts are the cause (which I don’t doubt they are). It does seem a little strange to me that the other two fids are perfectly fine. Not one wheeze out of them. Lily likely has more sensitive lungs than they do. Poor girl. I feel so bad about this. Hopefully the hut experience is an eye opener for people not experienced in a fabric toy like I was. Please don’t make the same mistake. I got so lucky I think. Smell your toys first before they go in the cages. :(

I’m sure Lily will be fine, she’s probably going to need some form of medicine to help her through this, regardless what the cause may be. Yes, she’s in a separate cage for now, after the wheezing started back up on 4/25, and continued on 4/26 and 4/27, I decided to finally move her to her old cage, just in case it is something that can spread to Snowball (as in, diet and hut are not the cause of her wheezing). No point in taking unnecessary chances. I know neither of them like the current set up, but I’d rather be extra safe at this point after getting lucky with them all, than be sorry. I let them both out still but I “take turns” with them. I have to cover the other’s cage though to prevent them trying to just be near the other. I let Lily out just because I don’t want her plucking like crazy over this. It’s kind of conflicted thoughts on pros and cons to letting her out in her current state. I’m sure she’s worse than what she’s letting on. But I don’t want her to make it worse on herself by pulling her feathers out because she can’t fly around. Snowball I don’t want to “punish” because of Lily’s condition. Of course I have to let him out. I just have to make sure they don’t go near each other for now. Solution being cover up the bird cage of the bird who isn’t out at the time.
 

Inger

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Beware of those huts even if there’s no smell. There is the danger that birds will ingest the fleece, and also that they can get tangled in them if a claw catches or holes get nibbled. It can result in injury or death. I was strongly cautioned against them by multiple sources when I got Bumble.


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AkridChaos

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Aug 31, 2017
129
5
USA
Parrots
Rescue Budgie: Snowball (blue/grey)
Normal Budgie: Oliver (yellow/green)
Black Capped Conure: Warbeak
Parrotlet: Lily, Rest In Peace
Canary-Winged Parakeet: Stryker
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Beware of those huts even if there’s no smell. There is the danger that birds will ingest the fleece, and also that they can get tangled in them if a claw catches or holes get nibbled. It can result in injury or death. I was strongly cautioned against them by multiple sources when I got Bumble.


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I kind of figured if they so much as chewed any holes in it, I would have to toss it. Claw getting stuck super hazard. I just thought it would be a nice place to sleep for them all until they eventually attempted to destroy it (was confident Warbeak and Snowball would behave, but Lily is destructive. I didn’t think it would last more than two months no matter how much she’d likely enjoy sleeping in it). Clearly I already likely have to get rid of it though. In that first wash cycle, I did use soap in hopes it would get the chemicals out, then planned on doing 5 water rinse cycles with it to get the soap out. But the chemical smell is still in there after washing it the first time with soap! I don’t even want to wash it a second time with soap. That means there’s loads of chemicals just embedded in there. Think I’m just going to have to consider this purchase a complete waste and toss it, or attempt to return it and hopefully get my money back. I can only imagine what this vet bill is going to cost for Lily. I’m counting my blessings it’s only her, and not all three of them. Even still, I’d like my money back to help pay for the vet bill for the poor girl.
 
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AkridChaos

New member
Aug 31, 2017
129
5
USA
Parrots
Rescue Budgie: Snowball (blue/grey)
Normal Budgie: Oliver (yellow/green)
Black Capped Conure: Warbeak
Parrotlet: Lily, Rest In Peace
Canary-Winged Parakeet: Stryker
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I'm guessing you've seen this, but just to be sure that I'm doing my due diligence...
Here's a link we love to cite. :)
http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/52217-plucking-search-answers.html

Stay tuned for more input. Good for you for being so open-minded. :)

Yes I have read through that one for the plucking munchkin. It’s definitely a work in progress for her. She has gotten better in my care, as when I first got her she was basically completely bald except head and primary wing feathers. Her buddy Snowball has definitely been a huge help, as has flying (she was clipped when I first got her, and she was ripping out her tail feathers up until her flight feathers grew back). We’re working slowly toward a healthier diet with her (can you imagine, most of her life, seeds only. Yikes!). Hoping to be able to incorporate more pellet varieties (right now they’re all on zupreem fruit, as the starter pellet to help them be willing to try other pellets in the near future. I’m just working towards a good pellet to seed ratio first, then when I hit that mark, incorporate new pellets into their current pellet supply). Fruits they all seem to enjoy. Veggies, not so much. I was looking up mash and bread recipes for them all recently to make that the next step of incorporation, since sprouts was a complete fail (I apparently don’t have one single window to put them in to get enough sunlight while I’m at work to effectively grow :( I could put it outside, but then well...outside birds will eat the seeds. I’m going to have to do some serious brainstorming to get that one to work out). It’s also very dry in my house, I was considering a humidifier for Lily after reading a recent post of a plucking conure who stopped when humidifier was used. Not guaranteed to help me with her, but it’s worth a shot. I don’t plan on going too crazy with it though since I obviously don’t want mold. Just enough to hopefully make it more comfortable in their room for them. Also, I try to incorporate a lot of play time with her, and chewable foraging toys in cage, to help her keep from getting bored. So, something somewhere is making serious progress with her, for her to have all her tail feathers, leg feathers, and all down feathers on wings. She just still plucks all around her neck, and it seems as of late, has gone back to chest feather plucking (as of late meaning, since wheezing incident started). Hence why I don’t want to stop out of cage time with her no matter how bad her condition may be right now. I don’t want her mutilating herself further over this incident. I try to keep her from getting too excited while she’s out so as to minimize wheezing. Meaning, no bell jingling play time for now. Just come out, play with chew toys on the stand, let her fly her few laps around the room that she likes to do daily, stare at birds next door at the bird feeder out the window (closed) and then go back in her temporary cage until she’s better. I’ll be sure to keep everyone updated on her, both for the vet visit and wheezing condition, and for her current backwards steps to chest plucking.
 

Inger

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Sorry-I should have added I hope the wheezing is nothing serious and she makes a full and speedy recovery, and yay for the progress you’ve made with diet and feathers!

You shouldn’t need light for sprouts. I do them in my kitchen and they come out great. Remember, seeds usually sprout under dirt-maybe they’re getting TOO MUCH light in the window?

Here’s some great info on sprouting from SilverSage’s website, in case you haven’t seen it already.

http://www.silversageaviaries.com/sprouting/


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AkridChaos

New member
Aug 31, 2017
129
5
USA
Parrots
Rescue Budgie: Snowball (blue/grey)
Normal Budgie: Oliver (yellow/green)
Black Capped Conure: Warbeak
Parrotlet: Lily, Rest In Peace
Canary-Winged Parakeet: Stryker
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Sorry-I should have added I hope the wheezing is nothing serious and she makes a full and speedy recovery, and yay for the progress you’ve made with diet and feathers!

You shouldn’t need light for sprouts. I do them in my kitchen and they come out great. Remember, seeds usually sprout under dirt-maybe they’re getting TOO MUCH light in the window?

Here’s some great info on sprouting from SilverSage’s website, in case you haven’t seen it already.

Sprouting for Your Parrot ? Silver Sage Aviaries


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Hahaha! Seems I have been doing it wrong after all. Thanks a ton for the link. Very helpful. I’ll have to invest in a good sprout making container. Then wait for it (or them, might buy more than one) to arrive, and try again. And get some apple cider vinegar with it all. Guess sprouts is still the next thing on the list to attempt incorporating.
 

Inger

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Bumble - Pacific (or Celestial) Parrotlet hatched 02/19/17
Sorry-I should have added I hope the wheezing is nothing serious and she makes a full and speedy recovery, and yay for the progress you’ve made with diet and feathers!



You shouldn’t need light for sprouts. I do them in my kitchen and they come out great. Remember, seeds usually sprout under dirt-maybe they’re getting TOO MUCH light in the window?



Here’s some great info on sprouting from SilverSage’s website, in case you haven’t seen it already.



Sprouting for Your Parrot ? Silver Sage Aviaries





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Hahaha! Seems I have been doing it wrong after all. Thanks a ton for the link. Very helpful. I’ll have to invest in a good sprout making container. Then wait for it (or them, might buy more than one) to arrive, and try again. And get some apple cider vinegar with it all. Guess sprouts is still the next thing on the list to attempt incorporating.



You don’t need a special container. I do it in a plastic tumbler I have. [emoji16] Glad I could help.


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AkridChaos

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Aug 31, 2017
129
5
USA
Parrots
Rescue Budgie: Snowball (blue/grey)
Normal Budgie: Oliver (yellow/green)
Black Capped Conure: Warbeak
Parrotlet: Lily, Rest In Peace
Canary-Winged Parakeet: Stryker
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Alright we got our vet visit in. I don’t have good news or bad news yet. Lily was being a stinker and decided to go whizzing around in the vet room on us...twice. Vet was able to audibly hear the wheezing after that (guess her taking off helped). Initial stethoscope didn’t quite give her many answers, as she says it doesn’t quite sound like it’s coming from the actual lungs. Vet had to go poking around with swabs after that. She found an abnormal amount of bacteria buildup in the back of Lily’s throat, so she prescribed me some antibiotics for Lily for this week (and possibly next) as she does full extensive work to figure out exactly what’s going on with Lily. I’m basically just waiting on the phone call for the news, and whether Lily needs to be on more than the antibiotic that was prescribed temporarily. That and the next vet visit (because no matter what we’ll have to schedule one to make sure Lily is improving).

Lily isn’t happy with me right now. I forsee having to start from square one with her in the bonding process after this. It’s a medication that has to be prescribed by syringe to inside beak, meaning because Lily is stubborn, hand grabbing... I don’t like the idea of having to chase any of my birds around in a cage and then grab them. But I understand it’s something I have to do in her case. Just hope she’ll be forgiving once this is all over. Especially since last night I had to hunt her down with towel to get her to go back in hospital cage because she absolutely refused to go after 30 minutes of trying to coax her in there for bed. She definitely showed her displeasure for me this morning when I had to uncover her and quick get her breakfast before we had to go. Puffed up birditude with beak open ready to attack. Oy.. She made sure to express her displeasure to the vet too after all swabbing was said and done. Gave her a nice nip on the hand with angry chirp before letting go to hop into her cage.

Hopefully things will be simple, and all Lily needs is that antibiotic that I received. And hopefully after this is all over, she’ll stop plucking those chest feathers of hers (and down on her wings. I noticed that today. Lots of plucking right now).
 
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AkridChaos

New member
Aug 31, 2017
129
5
USA
Parrots
Rescue Budgie: Snowball (blue/grey)
Normal Budgie: Oliver (yellow/green)
Black Capped Conure: Warbeak
Parrotlet: Lily, Rest In Peace
Canary-Winged Parakeet: Stryker
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Alright I got the good news. All the vet found was the bacteria build up in the back of Lily’s throat, and all she needs is the antibiotic that I’ve been giving her. And she’s doing so much better after 6 days (morning will be 7) on it. She needs it for 14 days total. I haven’t been hearing her wheezing any more. It is possible she hides it well, since she’s scared of me now :(. She really doesn’t like the hand grabbing and syringe feeding, but there’s no other way I can get her to take it without holding her because she runs away. Still hoping she’ll be forgiving once this is all over and she’s completely better. She seems really confused by my behavior in the hand grabbing, looks at me daily like “why mommy??? Why are you doing this???” Although today she was almost a good girl, jumped on my hand so I thought maybe I could try syringe feeding her from there without grabbing her. She tried. As I was pressing syringe to administer medicine she ran off though, and it sprayed elsewhere. Had to get more and hand grab again. :( but at least she attempted an alternative for just a moment. Maybe she’ll try again tomorrow morning. I hope, because I really don’t like having to chase, grab, and clearly terrify her.
 

Jen5200

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Aw, poor Lily. I’m glad she’s on the mend, but I’m sure that it’s very stressful for both of you to get the meds into her. I’m sure that you’ll get back to where you were with her, but she may be suspicious of grabby hands for a little bit.
 

Inger

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So sorry the two of you are going through this, but very glad she’s on the mend. I can tell it’s breaking your heart to have to do the grab routine. [emoji853]


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AkridChaos

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Aug 31, 2017
129
5
USA
Parrots
Rescue Budgie: Snowball (blue/grey)
Normal Budgie: Oliver (yellow/green)
Black Capped Conure: Warbeak
Parrotlet: Lily, Rest In Peace
Canary-Winged Parakeet: Stryker
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Yeah it’s been really hard seeing the backwards progress with her in all of this. I used to be able to enter the room and nobody bothered flinching because they knew I wasn’t going to pull anything. Now I enter the room, and she immediately goes into the furthest corner away to hide and sucks all her feathers in. Uncovering her in the morning is the worst part. You can just see the terror in every bit of her body language, because she knows she gets her dose first thing in the morning before I let her out to fly away. Not that I want to encourage her fear, it’s just I thought maybe it would help her psychologically to be able to fly away from me after she’s all done. Better her feel she can escape the situation than feel helpless in the cage as I prepare breakfast for everyone. Kind of the same thing with the hand grabbing. I have enough of a grip to hold her in place, but not completely restrain her, so if she gets the urge to struggle, she can escape away in the cage temporarily and cool off for a moment before we try again. Call me weird if you want, but I just thought it was good for her to feel she can escape than for her to be completely helpless to the situation.

She was a good girl this morning. She learned from yesterday’s attempted dose that if she lands on my hand and chews on the syringe, the hand grabbing won’t happen as long as she doesn’t run away. The first half of her dose was administered by the hand grabbing and then she “escaped”, to land on my hand after a minute of cooling off and stayed there (scared of course). The second half was administered while sitting on my hand, like a good girl, and she stayed for a moment on there after the medicine was administered. But I know she was scared so I let her go onto her perch and opened the cage for her. I’m hoping this second weekend of medicine will go more smoothly, where she’ll take it on my hand instead of having to be grabbed. Because I can say with confidence that neither of us like the hand grabbing option. I’m glad she’s been trying to find her own work around for it finally. It’s just really hard knowing I’m the one causing a fear response in her.
 

AmyMyBlueFront

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Jonesy a Goffins 'Too who had to be rehomed :-(

And a Normal Grey Cockatiel named BB who came home with me on 5/20/2016.
Giving meds by syringe really sucks :eek: When BB was younger he had a bacterial infection ( loose/watery poo) and he needed meds. He is VERY trusting of me,so he'd sit on my fingers and I was able to very gingerly pick him up and hold him with my other hand..he isn't a big fan of being held and would wiggle but I could get his little head between my thumb and forefinger to keep him still. Him trying to bite the end of the syringe made it easy for me to administer his meds.
I'd release him and he'd immediately take flight,flying around in circles,SCREAMING at me full volume,then land on the curtain rod,his hat high in the air,still cussin' me out for a good five minutes :eek:
I felt soooo bad for him for having to do that to him..telling him it was for his own good :eek:
I'm very lucky with him though..he forgives real fast and within fifteen minutes I was forgiven and he was back on my shoulder singing in my ear :D



Jim
 
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AkridChaos

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Aug 31, 2017
129
5
USA
Parrots
Rescue Budgie: Snowball (blue/grey)
Normal Budgie: Oliver (yellow/green)
Black Capped Conure: Warbeak
Parrotlet: Lily, Rest In Peace
Canary-Winged Parakeet: Stryker
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I’m glad to report that the medicine has worked and she’s no longer wheezing as of last week. She’s still not too happy with me though. Flinches any time I come in sight and hides. Gave her a week of space as I figured she could use it. Made an attempt to play today with her (bell jingling on chair). She chirped up a storm but didn’t bother coming near me. Understandable I suppose. She did seem aweful happy when I put a spray of millet near her and Snowball though. She fluffed up and went at it the moment my hand was a safe distance away. It’s going to take a while to rebond with her I think. Which is ok, I can wait it out. I’m quite patient when I need to be. Her chest feathers still don’t look so good, but they are just starting to grow back a bit. Hoping she doesn’t go ripping them out again.

On another plus side, I started them on sprouts last week (managed to successfully make some finally thanks to the link that was posted) . I got new dishes for both fid cages to give it to them. I’m actually surprised how fast Snowball and Lily took to them. The entire first day they didn’t touch it (came home and it was all still in the dish). Left some in there overnight for a midnight/morning snack, along with some seeds in a different dish. Come morning uncovering, they had devoured the sprouts. It was quite a shock. Not much sign of leftovers in the bottom of the cage, meaning they ate it, and didn’t simply toss it to the ground.Since then, the sprouts are just immediately devoured over all other food first. Warbeak is another shock. Usually she devours anything. Turns out she refuses to try the sprouts yet LOL. It’s apparently going to take a bit of work to get her eating them. That and zupreem natural. I bought some of that and have been mixing a little bit into the zupreem fruit. Snowball and Lily don’t care and just eat it all (funny how much they changed from avoiding pellets). Warbeak just knows the color difference and leaves all the grey ones in the food dish. I tried being sneaky one morning and just giving her all natural for breakfast one morning. I always put breakfast pellets on the tray on top of her cage, and put seeds in her cage for later when I go to work. She decided to be sneaky back and just went in her cage for her seeds LOL. I’m going to slowly get them off zupreem fruit and onto zupreem natural. I bought a bag of roudybrush (? Something like that) for the future as well. Planning on mixing that with zupreem natural. Then maybe try to find a better pellet than zupreem natural. Zupreem is a great starter pellet (especially fruit one), but I know there’s better stuff out there for the long run. Anyway, it’s just baby steps for a while. But even still, they’re already that much healthier than they once were. ;)
 

Inger

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Bumble - Pacific (or Celestial) Parrotlet hatched 02/19/17
I’m glad Lily is better, and I hope she forgives quickly. Isn’t sprouting cool? I especially like to sprout lentils and some dried beans-it’s like MAGIC because these pebble-like things actually have life inside them!


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