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Old 05-05-2012, 09:51 AM
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The thing I hate most...

I can't stand hybrid parrots. Macaws and Cockatoos bug me most... now I am facing a situation that has me reconsidering the topic slightly. I have a male Dusky Pionus that was given to me by a lady who couldn't tame him. I have kept him as a pet while I have searched and searched for a mate. If he sees any other bird he starts throwing up and going through his little mating ritual. I have been looking for a mate for him for over 3 years (black palms and hyacinths are much easier to find than a dusky Pionus). A while back I was given a white cap female. However upon looking at her I realized she is a hybrid (white cap crossed with a Maximilian. So here I sit with 2 Pionus of opposite sexes who feed eachother and try to mate everyday at playtime. I lock them in separate cages, but the female has started chewing her feathers and neither of them eats right when they are caged separately. The hen has lost quite a bit of weight because she only eats when they are out together. So my question is what would you do? I have a hybrid hen who unless I get over a my irritation fir hybrids she can never have a mate, and a Dusky who is so desperate he use to try and mount my baby amazons I was feeding. They want to be together, but I don't want to be condemned to "aviculture hell" for allowing them ti be together. I have kept them in separate rooms and the female stopped eating... before you give advice on how to calm them down please understand that these are not my first parrots and I breed parrots for a living and rescue others as a passion. Thanks.
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:19 AM
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Re: The thing I hate most...

Let go of your feelings for hybrids and let the birds be.
Just saying....
I was just thinking about you ! I was going to send you a pm to see how you were doing
Now I know, lol.
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:22 AM
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Re: The thing I hate most...

Have you considered keeping them together but boiling any eggs they lay? I realize it isn't a pleasant option; I myself haven't been in that situation so I can't say for certain how I feel about it.

What are the odds of a hybrid of 3 species having health problems? If they would be healthy that's one thing. I myself might be concerned with creating some manner of fad, or demand for such a hybrid (I'm assuming you would sell the babies?). Though I honestly have no idea what such a cross would look like. With pionus both being rare in captivity and less "flashy" than, say, a macaw (a hybrid especially) it might be a non-issue.
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:23 AM
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Re: The thing I hate most...

are you opposed to them raising chicks or just being together? Perhaps you could replace any eggs they produce with dummies, and let them happily incubate away.

I'm not a fan of intentional hybrids either but you are keeping these animals in an artificial environment where they can't behave totally normally. You just have to compromise sometimes.
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:31 AM
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Re: The thing I hate most...

I know what you mean about Hybrids!!! For me it's Dogs. Why are you crossing a cocker spaniel with a poodle, calling it a "designer breed", naming that "breed" a cockapoo and charging more than a dog with actual AKC recognized status and papers, when clearly, it's a MUTT!!!

Whew, okay, that out of the way... I think birds are a little different. Hybrids happen and some aren't so bad (okay, there's a few mixes I think are nice, but there's already millions of dogs without homes). You can let birds be mates, but you don't have to give them conditions right for breeding. You don't have to incubate the eggs. It can be the equivalent of two dogs humping while at least one has been fixed. For the health if the hen, and the relief of mental and hormonal anguish for him, I think having them together is just what needs to be done. But like its already been stated, I'd look into health issues for any potential offspring. You may also find that their chicks aren't viable, that maybe the triple hybrid makes one or both infertile. Just a thought.
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:03 PM
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Re: The thing I hate most...

I asked the two breeder friends I have here what they think (they know both birds and have been actively trying to help me find a Dusky female for all this time.). While both of them dislike hybrids their opinion is "what choice have you got? We'd love to find the mate, but it's been 3a years we've been to 3 Macon, MO auctions, contacted several brokers in Florida. We've tried both people who claim to breed Dusky pi in this country and both were lying flakes.... so just let them live and happily raise babies"

As far as health problems that is not something I would anticipate with this type of hybrid. Due to my dislike of hybrids I have researched the topic pretty heavily down to genetic law and Haldane's rules of hybrid inviability, etc. As for the babies.... well I just don't know if Ill let them hatch or not. (Providing they're even fertile to begin with). I'm not worried about temperament complications like I would be with Macaws, since both birds are very similar in temperament. I need to think some more...
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:49 PM
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Re: The thing I hate most...

Quote: Originally Posted by KatherineI View Post
I know what you mean about Hybrids!!! For me it's Dogs. Why are you crossing a cocker spaniel with a poodle, calling it a "designer breed", naming that "breed" a cockapoo and charging more than a dog with actual AKC recognized status and papers, when clearly, it's a MUTT!!!

Whew, okay, that out of the way... I think birds are a little different. Hybrids happen and some aren't so bad (okay, there's a few mixes I think are nice, but there's already millions of dogs without homes). You can let birds be mates, but you don't have to give them conditions right for breeding. You don't have to incubate the eggs. It can be the equivalent of two dogs humping while at least one has been fixed. For the health if the hen, and the relief of mental and hormonal anguish for him, I think having them together is just what needs to be done. But like its already been stated, I'd look into health issues for any potential offspring. You may also find that their chicks aren't viable, that maybe the triple hybrid makes one or both infertile. Just a thought.
I completely agree with you about the designer breeds !
But it's the people that buy them at such outrageous prices , for a mutt mind you, that are free in the shelters , keep them in high demand !
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:01 PM
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Re: The thing I hate most...

Quote: Originally Posted by luvmytooo View Post
I completely agree with you about the designer breeds !
But it's the people that buy them at such outrageous prices , for a mutt mind you, that are free in the shelters , keep them in high demand !
Cross-bred dogs aren't hybrids. They are all the same breed. Even so, many of the breeds you consider "ok" and "pure" are made of other breeds of dog, and some crosses are recent but highly practical (thinking of labradoodles, for example). Crossbred dogs are often healthier. And the mutts that most people have, they are not "pure" breeds but they are OK? All back yard breeding is wrong whether someone is breeding pure or not... Until the shelters are empty the only breeding should be done to preserve the breed.

Okay off my soap box now :P
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:12 PM
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Re: The thing I hate most...

Quote: Originally Posted by ZoeS View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by luvmytooo View Post
I completely agree with you about the designer breeds !
But it's the people that buy them at such outrageous prices , for a mutt mind you, that are free in the shelters , keep them in high demand !
Cross-bred dogs aren't hybrids. They are all the same breed. Even so, many of the breeds you consider "ok" and "pure" are made of other breeds of dog, and some crosses are recent but highly practical (thinking of labradoodles, for example). Crossbred dogs are often healthier. And the mutts that most people have, they are not "pure" breeds but they are OK? All back yard breeding is wrong whether someone is breeding pure or not... Until the shelters are empty the only breeding should be done to preserve the breed.

Okay off my soap box now :P
While I totally agree with this sentiment, I'm just going to nitpick: they are all different breeds of dog, but all dog breeds are the same species. This is why comparing them to parrots is flawed... the different parrots in question are actually different species, albeit closely related.
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:31 PM
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Re: The thing I hate most...

I agree with you about backyard breeders. None of those dogs have had temperament tests or hips , eyes , elbows , work ability to uphold to that breeds standards.
A lot of "breeders" toss together two dogs because they are so pretty or such good dogs , let them have puppies .........yeah , ok , sure !
But making more designer breeds doesn't add to the over populated shelters ?
I am not going to boast about breeding pure bred dogs , I have owned plenty of "mutts" in my lifetime , they were the best dogs ever ! But to see people spend thousands of dollars for a mixed breed dog when there are so many in the shelters , it just doesn't seem right.
I can understand how people think they are cute , because they are cute !!
I would like to see someone donate that kind of money to a shelter and take home one of those dogs instead. I just feel that the designer breeds is something we didn't need right now. People buy these dogs like accessories ! And once they are out of style , what happens to them ? They go to shelters . JMO.
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