Update on Raven

RavensGryf

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Some of you remember that my boy Raven was getting treated for a fungal infection in his air sacs. The treatment involved oral medication over a period of months, and periodic x-rays to show progress. Today it was all clear :)!

A little back info for those who don't know my Raven ;), he was injured at his breeder's house, I was told it was by his sibling. The breeder took him to the vet, medicated him for a bacterial infection that this caused, and shipped him to me after he seemed fine. His nares and sinus cavity are misshaped from the accident, and cause him problems at times. The operculum (flap of skin right behind the nostril hole that keeps debris out), is damaged and missing in Raven's right nostril, and pushed back on the left side as well. This makes it easier for Raven to pick up bacteria and fungal spores (which are actually everywhere in the air). He actually only had a mild infection which the vet suspected was there for some time, while his immune system kept it from getting 'bad'. He is on a good diet and is otherwise healthy. BUT.... The vet tells me that since fungal spores are present in the air 'everywhere', that means that fungal infections are always "secondary".

Secondary to what? One 'abnormal' thing he saw on the periodic x-rays over the course of several months, was that Raven has enlarged testicles. Go ahead and laugh, but they're of course on the inside of the body. So you're wondering what a secondary fungal infection has to do with testicles? I was wondering too! My vet gave an interesting explanation. Apparently, the long term enlargement of the organs means that they are working excessively, and overtime. RAGING HORMONES!! The constant stress of being extremely sexually frustrated long term (on top of his damaged nares) could have been a factor in the infection. Raven is 2, not old enough to reproduce, but he said he is definitely old enough to have these hormonal issues. Apparently too, from what I read and hear, Pionus go through puberty earlier than most other parrots of their size.

Now looking at it this way, sure enough, Raven has been flaring up with his territorial threat posture and trying to bite me often times when I'm near his cage (for many months now), he tries to mate with Griffin, his smaller male friend of a different species (I guess it's not quite so funny anymore after hearing this from the vet), and feeds Griffin like a mate.

So, he advises trying Lupron to calm those hormones. I've never heard of it being used for males, but apparently so. I'm taking some time to think about it. As far as the stimulus goes, there is no way at this time to move Raven or Griffin. Besides, if there was, how sad since they are bonded. I had so much info to take in, I forgot to ask whether Lupron would still be effective without removing the stimulus.

The vet said again (he told me before) that out of the Pionus group, he doesn't recommend Bronze Winged as pets because the species typically gets so extremely hormonal, as they are "highly sex motivated" he said! :eek: Poor Raven.
 
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Doublete

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RIP "pineapple" lovebird
Sounds just like a typical male to me!

In all seriousness, yikes. That's tough! Poor guy.
 

riddick07

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That's good on the infection not so good on the forever hormonal front!

I think we used Lupron on a male macaw at the shelter but I would have to check with Jeanne. He got overly hormonal with his foot...yes his foot! He would regurge for it all the time and make a mess. We obviously couldn't take his foot away, so if it was Lupron it worked even with the foot in sight. I can ask Jeanne for you tomorrow what it was he was given specifically:)
 
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RavensGryf

RavensGryf

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That's good on the infection not so good on the forever hormonal front!

I think we used Lupron on a male macaw at the shelter but I would have to check with Jeanne. He got overly hormonal with his foot...yes his foot! He would regurge for it all the time and make a mess. We obviously couldn't take his foot away, so if it was Lupron it worked even with the foot in sight. I can ask Jeanne for you tomorrow what it was he was given specifically:)

Thanks Victoria. ROTFL about the foot! No, you sure couldn't take that away :eek:. Yes, if you don't mind, please ask Jeanne about that :). How long did it work? Did it fix the problem permanently?
 

OOwl

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I've thought about him, ever since reading about his unique issue. I admire you taking on such a life-long health issue. Raven is so fortunate his path crossed yours. Do keep us updated on the Lupron used for hormonal male parrots issue. That's interesting. I have four male pet parrots, so I would like to have that info in my arsenal of banked knowledge in case I ever need it. I hope Raven continues to do well and not have any further infection or fungal problems. You're a good parrot mom.
 
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RavensGryf

RavensGryf

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I've thought about him, ever since reading about his unique issue. I admire you taking on such a life-long health issue. Raven is so fortunate his path crossed yours. Do keep us updated on the Lupron used for hormonal male parrots issue. That's interesting. I have four male pet parrots, so I would like to have that info in my arsenal of banked knowledge in case I ever need it. I hope Raven continues to do well and not have any further infection or fungal problems. You're a good parrot mom.

Thank you so much for remembering Raven, and saying I'm a good parrot mom, that really means a lot to me! :)
Actually, I feel I had no choice but to take on the issue. The breeder shipped him in good faith that he was well again, and it wasn't til a little later that I saw something was wrong. She ended up reimbursing me half his purchase price (which doesn't begin to touch the sky high vet bills) but was very decent and fair of her. The other option was to get a full refund and ship him back (after having him a couple months!) which was of course out of the question.

Honestly, although I really love Raven, sometimes it stresses me out thinking about the gazillion dollars in credit expenses I have and very well might spend throughout his lifetime, or thinking will he have a full lifespan like a completely "normal" bird, and WHY ME?! He is kept clean, he has a great diet and environment, and ugh he's STILL with problems regardless of what I do!

I guess the unavoidable way it all happened means that he was 'meant to be' with me, so I'll gladly accept that ;). After all, everyone "hopes" they have a child born with no health problems, but if they are, of course they're still loved as any other member of the family, and treated with whatever they need to be healthy as possible.
 

EAI

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Thanks for the update! I've never even heard of Lupron( ...or Bronzed wing pionus' till you) but I'm hoping it's able to help him settle down.
I'm so anxious to see what riddick07 comes back with.

And on a side note, that's so interesting to hear about your vet's recommendation, of course its a "recommendation", but if they have an owner like you, I don't think it would matter :p .
 

Doublete

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RIP "pineapple" lovebird
Of course you're a wonderful mom!

If your pets/kids are anything like mine sometimes you feel totally unappreciated by them though! :)
 

Anansi

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So glad to hear that Raven's air sacs have tested all clear! In addition to the medication, I have no doubt that result is due, in large part, to how fastidiously clean you've kept his environment. Like has been said a few times before, you are a good parront.

As for the hormonal rage... wow. I feel for the little guy. I'd never heard before that bronze wings were specifically prone to such issues. Is he suggesting the lupron as an ongoing medication? Or simply through a hormonal rough patch, so to speak?
 

a_osborne

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So glad to hear that his infection has cleared up! Hopefully all this hormonal business is taken care of soon :(
 

Allee

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Julie, I'm so sorry to hear about Raven's hormonal issues. I know the problem with his nares is ongoing and causes a lot of stress for both of you. I'm glad the fungal infection in Raven's air sacs is completely gone.

I hope lupron is a viable treatment for Raven, but I do understand your hesitation. You're a great parront, Julie and all your boys know that. Please keep updating this thread. You and Raven are in my thoughts.
 

Kiwibird

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I'm glad Raven's infection has cleared! I knew he had the nare problem, but enlarged testicles too?! Poor guy. I think they have a term for that which isn't forum friendly. I'm glad they'll be able to treat him to help calm his hormones down though since he won't be getting a girlfriend any time soon. Seems like it may be something that's relatively normal. Kind of makes one wonder if the same things happen/ed biologically to our male birds at puberty/the REALLY bad years and it's never noticed because they aren't under vet care at the time for other illnesses (and never examined).

Edit: Kiwi's vet never examined him for enlarged testicles, but gauging by his behavior when he was going through those few nasty years when we first had him, I wouldn't doubt he was a bit 'swollen' in those parts from frustration. It's kind of the male biological response in most male animals who are sexually mature, ready to have sex yet do not have the ability to have sex due to a lack of a female/willing partner. Most get over it naturally too. It's hard to say if Raven's case is more severe or really abnormal, or if it's common but often undiagnosed and something that will pass in time. Though, I think if at all possible you should try to see if it passes before treatment.
 
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GreatBlue320

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I agree with OOwl - you are a wonderful parrot Mom! I'm glad Raven's infection has cleared up - keep us posted on the hormones and Lupron (if you decide to try it).
 

Terry57

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I'm so glad the infection has cleared up, and I also attribute it not only to the meds but to your wonderful parronting skills.

Poor thing, he just can't catch a break, now it's raging hormones? I am so glad he has you,so many people would not have been able to deal with the issues with the grace and love you have. He is with you for a reason.
 
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RavensGryf

RavensGryf

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Thanks for the update! I've never even heard of Lupron( ...or Bronzed wing pionus' till you) but I'm hoping it's able to help him settle down.
I'm so anxious to see what riddick07 comes back with.

And on a side note, that's so interesting to hear about your vet's recommendation, of course its a "recommendation", but if they have an owner like you, I don't think it would matter :p .

Thanks Reid. I'm undecided if I'm going to get it done or not, but I'm anxious to hear what info Victoria comes back with about the Macaw too.

Of course you're a wonderful mom!

If your pets/kids are anything like mine sometimes you feel totally unappreciated by them though! :)

Thanks... Yeah, completely unappreciated and taken for granted lol!

So glad to hear that Raven's air sacs have tested all clear! In addition to the medication, I have no doubt that result is due, in large part, to how fastidiously clean you've kept his environment. Like has been said a few times before, you are a good parront.

As for the hormonal rage... wow. I feel for the little guy. I'd never heard before that bronze wings were specifically prone to such issues. Is he suggesting the lupron as an ongoing medication? Or simply through a hormonal rough patch, so to speak?

Thanks Stephen. I've read people's accounts somewhere before about other BW's being hormonally nasty, and all Pionus in general, but I thought it was similar to how Amazons can be as well. Oh well, my vet has obviously seen other BW with a "big" problem too LOL.

So glad to hear that his infection has cleared up! Hopefully all this hormonal business is taken care of soon :(

I'm relieved too. Thank you so much for the well wishes!

Julie, I'm so sorry to hear about Raven's hormonal issues. I know the problem with his nares is ongoing and causes a lot of stress for both of you. I'm glad the fungal infection in Raven's air sacs is completely gone.

I hope lupron is a viable treatment for Raven, but I do understand your hesitation. You're a great parront, Julie and all your boys know that. Please keep updating this thread. You and Raven are in my thoughts.

I appreciate it Allee... Thank you. I hope it would be worth it too. I still have more research to do on it. On the other hand, if hormones 'might' be taxing his immune system, it might be worth it. I will for sure update!

I'm glad Raven's infection has cleared! I knew he had the nare problem, but enlarged testicles too?! Poor guy. I think they have a term for that which isn't forum friendly. I'm glad they'll be able to treat him to help calm his hormones down though since he won't be getting a girlfriend any time soon. Kind of makes one wonder if the same things happen/ed biologically to our male birds at puberty/the REALLY bad years and it's never noticed because they aren't under vet care at the time for other illnesses (and never examined).

Thank you for keeping forum friendly April haha! I know... who needs an enlarged testicle problem on top of deformed nares :52:?! Well, not having a BW Pionus "girlfriend" obviously doesn't stop him. Any other parrot will do... a smaller male of a different species will work in a pinch rotfl :D! Especially when Griffin actually encourages it :eek:.
 
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RavensGryf

RavensGryf

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I agree with OOwl - you are a wonderful parrot Mom! I'm glad Raven's infection has cleared up - keep us posted on the hormones and Lupron (if you decide to try it).

Thank you Shawna! It was a surprise for sure, that he mentioned hormones might be part of the problem!

I'm so glad the infection has cleared up, and I also attribute it not only to the meds but to your wonderful parronting skills.

Poor thing, he just can't catch a break, now it's raging hormones? I am so glad he has you,so many people would not have been able to deal with the issues with the grace and love you have. He is with you for a reason.

Thank you Terry! Ugh, but it is hard :(. I don't know about doing it with grace either :52:. Lol
 

Taw5106

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Wow you and Raven have been thru a lot. I'm glad his infection cleared up and wow what a new issue to deal with. Keep us posted.
 
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RavensGryf

RavensGryf

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Edit: Kiwi's vet never examined him for enlarged testicles, but gauging by his behavior when he was going through those few nasty years when we first had him, I wouldn't doubt he was a bit 'swollen' in those parts from frustration. It's kind of the male biological response in most male animals who are sexually mature, ready to have sex yet do not have the ability to have sex due to a lack of a female/willing partner. Most get over it naturally too. It's hard to say if Raven's case is more severe or really abnormal, or if it's common but often undiagnosed and something that will pass in time. Though, I think if at all possible you should try to see if it passes before treatment.

That's a good point April, and one reason I was being hesitant about the Lupron. But then again with Raven's unique nare/sinus problem, there is already his increased susceptibility to infections, whereas the stress of hormones wouldn't usually cause problems in other areas in a 'normal' bird as easily. I just don't know what I'm going to do at the moment. I'm thinking about it while the credit card has a chance to cool down a bit :eek:.

Wow you and Raven have been thru a lot. I'm glad his infection cleared up and wow what a new issue to deal with. Keep us posted.

Thanks Tracey! Yeah, he's just one of those high maintenance types I'm afraid!
 

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