HELP unweaned baby from shady breeder

Seabass · Jun 23, 2012

I had been looking to buy a baby Parrot for about the last three months, had been looking for various breeders and deciding on which species was best for me. I narrowed it down to Senegals, Green Cheeks and Parrotlets because I live in an apartment and these were the less noisy ones. Well today was my GF and I anniversary and she got me a baby Senegal, great!!! until I noticed it was an unweaned baby about 4 to 5 weeks old. Turns out my GF had been in touch with a some shady breeder who posted an add on Craigslist and convinced her that if I hand raise and feed the Senegal it will develop a deep bond with me. I explained to her how complicated it is to hand feed a baby bird and how unprepared we are. She then immediately called the breeder who simply told her he will hand feed only for one week and then we would have to pick up the baby, so I went to the farm argued with the guy until I got thrown out by his farm hands but it did not solve the problem, The guy sent my gf a text saying that all sales were final, that he can trade her the baby senegal for a baby sun conure (we live in an apartment) that is a week away from being weaned or hand fed. Having said that we would appreciate some advise from bird owners and breeder on how to handle the situation.

Thanks and best regards,
MB

greycloud · Jun 23, 2012

Hi and welcome!! First I want you to read this and if possible pass it on to this so called "breeder"! Just so you are aware.

http://www.parrotforums.com/general-parrot-information/19049-hazards-buying-unweaned-baby.html

Second, where are you located? Unfortunately California is the only state that it is illegal to sell unweaned baby birds.
Is your breeder going to show you how to handfeed?
Do you have a store or know of other area breeders that can train you?
Punch this breeder in the nose for me!

So baby is 4-5 weeks old and now yours. This is your brooder;
You will need a 10 gal aquarium, heating pad that does not shut off placed under 3/4 of tank set on med. (temp about 85-90F, screen lid with a towel placed over leaving about 1 inch open, towels or Fresh Care bedding for bottom.

Handfeeding formula:
Zupreem is my preferred. Do not use Kaytee!! There was a recall and I don't trust that this breeder ditched their old stock.
You will need 5cc syringes or paper dixie cups or a spoon.
Formula must be kept at 105-108F only!! Use a meat thermometer.
Formula should be the consistency of a thick gravy.

Feeding:If you use a syringe it should be introduced into the left side of the mouth from the right side. Give small amounts so baby does not aspirate.
A spoon can also be offered the same way. A dixie cup folded in half and gently tilted to dribble formula in works well too.
The crop should feel like a soft water balloon when full.
Put baby back in brooder to sleep right after eating.

If you have other questions let us know.

ann · Jun 23, 2012

What state do you live in? if you live in California you could bring attention to this because it's illegal. I think greycloud has it covered, sorry i cant be of much help, but good luck with your baby. maybe it was meant to be

.

Echo · Jun 23, 2012

greycloud said:
Feeding:If you use a syringe it should be introduced into the left side of the mouth from the right side. Give small amounts so baby does not aspirate.
A spoon can also be offered the same way. A dixie cup folded in half and gently tilted to dribble formula in works well too.
The crop should feel like a soft water balloon when full.
Put baby back in brooder to sleep right after eating.

If you have other questions let us know.

I would like to add, that is with the chick facing you. So the food needs to go into HIS RIGHT SIDE of HIS mouth. That's important.

I'm not sure of the feeding schedule and how much you need to feed each time.....hopefully someone with Senegal experience will jump in.....

Seabass · Jun 23, 2012

Thx for the feed back Greycloud, I'm currently located in Wayne PA and the only Pet stores around me are Petco and Petsmart, where I wouldn't be surprised if they are also purchasing from "breeders" such as this guy. Unfortunately my best bet to learn how to hand feed is youtube. We picked up a 1.25 lb bag of Zupreem baby formula, the 10 gallon tank and will be heading to warlmart to see if they sell the heating pad and a meat thermometer.

Questions
My GF was told he needed to be fed 3 times a day, is this accurate? I do not want to underfeed the baby. Which brings me to my next question how do I know the baby is well fed and how much of the formula should be given at a time.

This will not be easy I understand but we remain committed to ensure this baby makes it. He is now with the "breeder" for minimum a week before he is returned to us but just from reading the link you provided I am starting to think the baby might be better off with me and these people might just be some sort of Parrot brokers.

Once again thx for the advise.
MB

JamesC · Jun 24, 2012

When I was living near Philly, I found that there were two avian certified vets in the area. I went to the one that was in New Jersey and a good distance from you but I think that the other was on the north west side of Philly though it has been a few years. Since Wayne is not all that far from there you might want to consult with that doctor and she might be able to help you make sure you are doing the feeding correctly and make sure the bird gets a good start. I'm not sure if recommending doctors is permitted on the board but just in case it is her name is Dr. Karen Rosenthal. Best of luck.

Safira · Jun 24, 2012

It may be worth taking a day trip into New Jersey to visit Bird Paradise. You can phone them and see if they will give you a hands on lesson. They're located in Burlington Township, so it'll be about an hour or so drive for you ( I think. Don't quote me on that.) It's right over the burlington - bristol bridge though.

Bird Paradise, Worlds Largest Bird Store

You can stock up on toys too while you're there

IcyWolf · Jun 24, 2012

I'm not exactly sure where wayne, Pa, is but we are located right between York and Harrisburg. I'm feeding about 20 babies of various species right now, if I can by of ANY help, please contact me!! I would be more than happy to show you the ropes of handfeeding or if need be, take over for you until he is weaned although you seem like you are doing everything you can to learn how to care for the little guy. I cannot believe someone could do something like this! Do they not care about their babies whatsoever? How could you just sell an unweaned baby to someone that has no experience and not worry for the safety of the bird, or the feelings of the new family should something happen? Such a sad situation, glad to see you are trying to make the best of it, wishing you the best of luck.

KatherineI · Jun 24, 2012

I wish I was still in Pottstown/Reading. It wouldn't take me long to get to Wayne (Icywolf, Wayne is on the "Main Line", just east of Malvern, and west of Villanova, outside of Philly) and I've handfed before. I could have helped you out

Good luck. I'd go get a lesson from either the Avian Vet, or Bird Paradise and get that baby back PRONTO. Lord only knows what the so-called breeder will do and if he'll even follow through on any of his "promises". I'm so sorry this happened to you, but I'm glad you know enough that you knew this wasn't right.

IcyWolf · Jun 24, 2012

I just looked and they are about an hour and a half from me. I just had a family here yesterday from the far side of philly, it took them about 2 hours to get here.

where did you find formula at? Around here it's all still off the shelves, recalled from kaytee(which we don't use anyway) and back ordered from zupreem. I'm down to a pound and a half right now which isn't much when you consider we have twenty little mouths to feed every four hours. I've been calling stores left and right to see when they will have more in without much luck although they have been telling me towards the end of the month(which is now if you ask me...)

mtdoramike · Jun 24, 2012

First off, get YOUR bird back from this breeder as soon as possible. Then post an ad on Craigslist looking for an Experiences hand feeder for birds. Once you locate one, which I'm sure you will get several responses, ask if they could work with you on hand feeding your bird and offer them payment for their assistance. I wouldn't allow the breeder to have anything to do with my bird once I was treated that way unless it's the very last resort.

Once you have a few lessons from an experienced hand feeder, you should pick it up rather quickly. Also, most vets will also assist you in learning to hand feed. But either way, it's going to cost you additional money. This is why there are so many breeders dumping their unweaned birds onto unsuspecting people. It's very time consuming and can take several months to properly wean a baby bird. Most breeders that offer unweaned birds will also offer to wean them for an additional fee, which is close to the cost of the bird. I have seen some charge hundreds of dollars to wean a bird.

Also, contact SPCA in your area and report this breeder. It's a good possibility that it's unlawful to sell an unweaned animal in your state as well.

Karigan · Jun 24, 2012

Good luck, sennies wean at about 10-11 weeks of age, so the next month will be pretty busy for you.

KatherineI · Jun 24, 2012

mtdoramike said:
First off, get YOUR bird back from this breeder as soon as possible. Then post an ad on Craigslist looking for an Experiences hand feeder for birds. Once you locate one, which I'm sure you will get several responses, ask if they could work with you on hand feeding your bird and offer them payment for their assistance. I wouldn't allow the breeder to have anything to do with my bird once I was treated that way unless it's the very last resort.

Once you have a few lessons from an experienced hand feeder, you should pick it up rather quickly. Also, most vets will also assist you in learning to hand feed. But either way, it's going to cost you additional money. This is why there are so many breeders dumping their unweaned birds onto unsuspecting people. It's very time consuming and can take several months to properly wean a baby bird. Most breeders that offer unweaned birds will also offer to wean them for an additional fee, which is close to the cost of the bird. I have seen some charge hundreds of dollars to wean a bird.

Also, contact SPCA in your area and report this breeder. It's a good possibility that it's unlawful to sell an unweaned animal in your state as well.

The only state it's Illegal is California, so no, it's not illegal in PA. It should be illegal across the nation, but sadly, that's something that has to be decided by each individual state.

I agree - go get your bird! Then get some assistance in handfeeding from someone other than the "breeder". I wouldn't trust the "breeder" in any capacity after the way they've treated you, let alone after the fact that they did indeed sell an unweaned baby.

Seabass · Jun 24, 2012

Thank you all for your advise, I am overwhelmed by the support. As a quick update I will be picking up the baby early before anything happens to him/her. I had a friend pick up the baby formula from a Petland Discounts when he was in NY. Icywolf considering you are close by and the only guidance I have for hand feeding and parrots in general is my two books a guide to a well behave parrot and the complete idiot's guide to parrot I think it would be to my little guy's benefit to learn from a pro and I can probably get my hands on more of that formula if you need some.

Once again thank you all for your support.
-MB

IcyWolf · Jun 25, 2012

I must have misread, I didn't realize the breeder had the bird at the moment. If you don't mind making the drive, I could teach you to hand feed or I could do it for you. I wouldn't charge you anything, if you could hook me up with a bag of formula it would be appreciated though

I'm actually waiting to hear back from a local(ish) store owner tomorrow, she's going to let me know if she can get anymore in. If she can I'm ordering two big bags and keeping one in the freezer. I've never run this low on formula before, it has definitely made me rethink the quantities I need to start purchasing. It's just always been available, I never thought it would have become such a rare commodity. There hasn't been any zupreem on the shelves for at least the past 3 months, I'm just glad I bought a big bag when I did and then found someone willing to give me another 4 pounds they had in their freezer. I should also add, the person I got the formula from only had it because she was sold a baby that was supposedly weaned and wasn't.

I am dead serious about pushing this issue, I know many will be mad at me for saying this but I strongly believe it should be illegal to sell unweaned babies to the general public. I have no problem with breeders selling unweaned babies to other breeders or stores that have trained employees but I really don't think it's something your average bird owner is equipped for. Many of the babies I have right now, I purchased out of nest to hand feed, I understand this is sometimes necessary. But I will tell you, the people I get OON babies from have spent a lot of time getting to know me, coming to our house, and just generally making sure I knew what I was doing before they entrusted me with their babies.

mtdoramike · Jun 25, 2012

Wouldn't you know it, everything is illegal in California except illegal immigration hahahahahahahaha.

KatherineI · Jun 25, 2012

mtdoramike said:
Wouldn't you know it, everything is illegal in California except illegal immigration hahahahahahahaha.

I know it's off-topic, but I seriously chuckled at that this morning. Thank you! I needed a laugh!

Seabass - keep us updated on how the baby is doing.

Echo · Jun 25, 2012

IcyWolf said:
I must have misread, I didn't realize the breeder had the bird at the moment. If you don't mind making the drive, I could teach you to hand feed or I could do it for you. I wouldn't charge you anything, if you could hook me up with a bag of formula it would be appreciated though I'm actually waiting to hear back from a local(ish) store owner tomorrow, she's going to let me know if she can get anymore in. If she can I'm ordering two big bags and keeping one in the freezer. I've never run this low on formula before, it has definitely made me rethink the quantities I need to start purchasing. It's just always been available, I never thought it would have become such a rare commodity. There hasn't been any zupreem on the shelves for at least the past 3 months, I'm just glad I bought a big bag when I did and then found someone willing to give me another 4 pounds they had in their freezer. I should also add, the person I got the formula from only had it because she was sold a baby that was supposedly weaned and wasn't.

I am dead serious about pushing this issue, I know many will be mad at me for saying this but I strongly believe it should be illegal to sell unweaned babies to the general public. I have no problem with breeders selling unweaned babies to other breeders or stores that have trained employees but I really don't think it's something your average bird owner is equipped for. Many of the babies I have right now, I purchased out of nest to hand feed, I understand this is sometimes necessary. But I will tell you, the people I get OON babies from have spent a lot of time getting to know me, coming to our house, and just generally making sure I knew what I was doing before they entrusted me with their babies.

So generous of you to offer help when you have so many mouths to feed already! Kudos to you! Can you order the formula online??? Or are they low there too? I do have a new bag of formula but it's the Hagen Tropican. You're welcome to it however, I don't mind sending it to you if needed. I could also check here in CT and send it to you if you need.

Tammy · Jun 25, 2012

I am continually overwhelmed by the generosity & kindness displayed on this forum. Reading your posts & responses & how everyone kicks in to get the job done is the best part of my day. You all rock.

HELP unweaned baby from shady breeder

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First pedicure - Baxter such a good bird

Awesome day with Lexi!

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