Therapy Birds

Today I spoke with someone whose spouse has classic bipolar disorder. Her spouse is very interested in getting a parrot. I tend to keep too much inside of my own head at times and that can lead to "analysis paralysis". Hahnzel helps me keep away from those moments by just being a good companion for me.

My question is, for real mental disorders can a bird be truly helpful? Or are those types of drastic mood swings something that could be a bad thing?

In my opinion I don't think it is a good idea. Between the drastic mood swings of the owner and the possible mood swings ( or stubbornness) of the parrot, it could turn into a bad situation very quickly.

I think having a relationship with a bird is a great thing for situation driven depression, but bi-polar is a very different thing and I'm not convinced a pet that is highly demanding and requires consistency and steadiness from its human company would be a good idea. I have a close friend who is bi-polar and she gets a lot of pleasure out of having pets but they're all mammals, and she has a partner to take care of them when she's not in a fit state to. If it were the partner who was the bird's primary carer it would be better for the bird but from my experience of the illness I can still see a lot of room for problems.

Bi-polar people should NOT have parrots. I don't have anything against them (my sister in law is bi-polar) but, in truth, these are people who cannot take care of themselves and a parrot needs consistency, routines, schedule, patience, etc all things that bi-polar people cannot provide on a daily basis (both my nieces are in therapy because of their mother's illness).

It might benefit the human but it would not be fair to the bird.

I'm disagreeing with most here.

People who are disabled, physically or mentally can be adequate care givers to parrots. People with bipolar disorder, can still be adequate care givers to parrots. However, it depends entirely on how bad their condition is. I know of someone who suffers with bipolar who functions 'normally' - then another who is indeed, the definition of a 'manic depressive', who I'd be cautious of having around children, nevermind animals.

If there is someone else in the picture who can also provide care for the parrot, such as a spouse of the 'disabled' person, then no, I don't see why someone with bipolar/any other condition (unless there is blindingly obvious reasons, eg. no arms or legs, eyes, etc!!) should be denied the companionship for a bird.

I am sick, I've been pretty horrificly sick too since acquiring Merlin, where I failed in my care giving, Andrew stepped it up a notch until I was 'back to myself' (still sick, but no longer suicidal.)

There is a line between 'too sick' and just 'sick' in regards to animal care - but don't go tarring everyone with one illness, with the same brush. What affects one, may not affect another quite the same.

I have heard of therapy birds. Me and my sister talked about it. I can see why people think it is a bad idea. If I got real sick someone would have to care of my animals. My sister questions if parrots would be a good therapy tool by asking if a bird would cause such people's condition to be worse and not calm them down. And that is a good question since birds have been known to annoy normal functioning people.

Abigal7 said:

I heard of therapy birds. Me and my sister talked about it. I see why people think it is a bad idea. If I got real sick someone would have to care of my animals. My sister asked if a bird would cause such people's condition to be worse and not calm them down. And that is a good question.

Click to expand...

I have a chronic illness and have been bedridden at times, not since having Merlin, but I did have my budgies. Andrew did all the house keeping for them during that period. After getting Merlin I've had incredibly bad days with pain, with my mood, with my temper, patience. But I've gotten out of bed to cuddle him, to play, to feed, put him back to bed and gone back to sleep. Merlin was my reason for getting up that day, despite the illness. Merlin never suffered for it (bar the fact he got used to me being home all day every day.) Where I struggled, Andrew took over.

So, with proper support, I'm all for people with illnesses being able to have a parrot, or pet. If I had been on my own, I would have struggled more with Merlin because of his demands and my lack of energy. But when my patience was challenged, my moods were low, temper frayed - Merlin taught me patience, Merlin gave me a reason to keep on going.

So yeah, I'm for 'therapy birds' - depending on the situation.

We have a friend who is severely bi-polar. I shudder at the idea of him having a parrot (or ANY pet for that matter).

While on medication he may "seem" normal, however, he doesn't take his medication regularly, therefore he never really fully functions what we would call "normally". The mood swings are atrocious and dangerous at times. No way no how would he benefit from a pet. He's called one of my dogs every name under the sun for sniffing him, he's thrown rocks at his neighbor's dog for barking at him, so you get the picture. I actually no longer invite him into our home - out of sheer fear what might set him off.

Phoe this is a difficult question !
First of all I think the person ho hase a disease must be a bird lover, iff so I see really no problem.
I,m struggling myself with a disease and Mando is my reason to keep me going and he keeps me on track, he gives me routine wich I need despretly.
So in my case he,s my therapie bird and I think a lot of people in my situation can have benefits of owning and taking care of a parrot, but you have to love pets espesilly birds.
Being not Nice to people öre animals has nothing to do with bi Polar öre not its just how a person is, so if Anny one is bi Polar öre have some other ilness but loves animals and have a great spouche I say go for it !

My own issues stem from ADD type issues. I have dramatic sugar responses and then can crash just as easy. Having a responsibility such as Hahnzel keeps me on track and focused. Now, a true mania transcends common sense at times, while a crushing depression leaves a person unable to even move. Placing a completely dependant creature such as a parrot in those living conditions seems like a recipe for disaster.

I gave my avian vets phone number to her and told her to call him before making any plans.

Mayden said:

Abigal7 said:

I heard of therapy birds. Me and my sister talked about it. I see why people think it is a bad idea. If I got real sick someone would have to care of my animals. My sister asked if a bird would cause such people's condition to be worse and not calm them down. And that is a good question.

Click to expand...

I have a chronic illness and have been bedridden at times, not since having Merlin, but I did have my budgies. Andrew did all the house keeping for them during that period. After getting Merlin I've had incredibly bad days with pain, with my mood, with my temper, patience. But I've gotten out of bed to cuddle him, to play, to feed, put him back to bed and gone back to sleep. Merlin was my reason for getting up that day, despite the illness. Merlin never suffered for it (bar the fact he got used to me being home all day every day.) Where I struggled, Andrew took over.
So, with proper support, I'm all for people with illnesses being able to have a parrot, or pet. If I had been on my own, I would have struggled more with Merlin because of his demands and my lack of energy. But when my patience was challenged, my moods were low, temper frayed - Merlin taught me patience, Merlin gave me a reason to keep on going.

So yeah, I'm for 'therapy birds' - depending on the situation.

Click to expand...

Not everybody is like you. Bipolar people are almost OK (not 100%) when they take their medicines but, sometimes, their disease doesn't allow them to judge correctly and they decide not to take them or change the dosage or whatever and they end up in a real bad place. My sister in law used to sleep and cry and sleep and cry for days when she was depressed and go out dancing all night long when she was happy. She went into a hotel without telling anybody and tried to kill herself TWICE!!! while everybody was looking for her and worrying to death. She loved her children but she did not take care of them for days, weeks and even months at a time (she had to be hospitalized twice!). And she wasn't like that when she was younger, she got progressively worse as she got older. This is not the kind of person who can take care of a parrot and, with all due respect, husbands of bipolar people don't need any extra work or worry, they have more than enough.

Pajarita said:

Mayden said:

Abigal7 said:

I heard of therapy birds. Me and my sister talked about it. I see why people think it is a bad idea. If I got real sick someone would have to care of my animals. My sister asked if a bird would cause such people's condition to be worse and not calm them down. And that is a good question.

Click to expand...

I have a chronic illness and have been bedridden at times, not since having Merlin, but I did have my budgies. Andrew did all the house keeping for them during that period. After getting Merlin I've had incredibly bad days with pain, with my mood, with my temper, patience. But I've gotten out of bed to cuddle him, to play, to feed, put him back to bed and gone back to sleep. Merlin was my reason for getting up that day, despite the illness. Merlin never suffered for it (bar the fact he got used to me being home all day every day.) Where I struggled, Andrew took over.
So, with proper support, I'm all for people with illnesses being able to have a parrot, or pet. If I had been on my own, I would have struggled more with Merlin because of his demands and my lack of energy. But when my patience was challenged, my moods were low, temper frayed - Merlin taught me patience, Merlin gave me a reason to keep on going.

So yeah, I'm for 'therapy birds' - depending on the situation.

Click to expand...

Not everybody is like you. Bipolar people are almost OK (not 100%) when they take their medicines but, sometimes, their disease doesn't allow them to judge correctly and they decide not to take them or change the dosage or whatever and they end up in a real bad place. My sister in law used to sleep and cry and sleep and cry for days when she was depressed and go out dancing all night long when she was happy. She went into a hotel without telling anybody and tried to kill herself TWICE!!! while everybody was looking for her and worrying to death. She loved her children but she did not take care of them for days, weeks and even months at a time (she had to be hospitalized twice!). And she wasn't like that when she was younger, she got progressively worse as she got older. This is not the kind of person who can take care of a parrot and, with all due respect, husbands of bipolar people don't need any extra work or worry, they have more than enough.

Click to expand...

You are not understanding me. Throughout my posts I've said there are different severities of different illnesses and they affect everyone differently. So you cannot say that "someone with bipolar shouldn't own birds/animals" because you have NO idea how their bipolar affects them. Someone who is being hospitalised regularly, with regular suicide attempts and makes no effort to look after their children/animals is obviously not an ideal candidate for parrot ownership. But not ALL people with bipolar disorder are like that and I abhor the idea that anyone with a disability is tarred with that response.

You're right; if someone is so severely disabled (as you stated above), then for the partner to agree and bring in an animal to the mix sounds silly.

But if you are NOT (such is the case with many who suffer from bipolar disorder), then I don't understand why you can't come to an agreement with your partner that some days, or weeks, etc, they're going to need to pick up your slack during that time. Parrots (and all animals) should not be one persons decision to bring into the household. All animals brought into our home have been decided and agreed upon by both of us that should one of us get sick, or relapse, etc, then the other has to pick up the caring role for a while. So if the partner "isn't up to it" then, don't get the pet.

We won't get a dog, because I'm too sick and it's unfair for my partner to have the added responsibility for our already bulging zoo. If both people are on board for the highs and lows of being a carer to a human - and adding animals into the mix. I don't understand the issue. If they have a history of being animal aggressive, I can understand, but just 'generally' having an illness... no, I don't get it

Being a carer, I'm making sound very easy and a real breeze. I'm well aware it's not (previously being one myself!). It's not, but some are up to the challenge and even more so with animals in the mix. THAT is what is needed to be considered. I don't think parrots are particularly 'difficult' pets to keep (for us at least). We enjoy them, they give the sick a reason to get up, give them something to care for themselves, something to live for. I know I wouldn't be here had it not been for the fact I feel Merlin 'needs' me. I don't see why everyone who is sick should be denied that just because you know of someone who is so severe with a type of illness who is an unsuitable carer.

My issue here is all people being tarred with the same 'unsuitable' brush because of an illness that has a HUGE variation on how it affects people. Not everyone with disabilities/illness' are unsuitable.

I think that the reason why you don't understand where I am coming from is because you believe that parrots are not hard to keep while I happen to feel completely the opposite. I think that parrots are HUGELY difficult to keep happy and healthy. So much so that I think that it's VERY hard to do even for people who are completely healthy, both physically and mentally. I've been doing it for over 20 years and it hasn't gotten any easier... as a matter of fact, I worry more now than I did when I first started because the more I learn about them, the more inadequate I feel.

Pajarita said:

I think that the reason why you don't understand where I am coming from is because you believe that parrots are not hard to keep while I happen to feel completely the opposite. I think that parrots are HUGELY difficult to keep happy and healthy. So much so that I think that it's VERY hard to do even for people who are completely healthy, both physically and mentally. I've been doing it for over 20 years and it hasn't gotten any easier... as a matter of fact, I worry more now than I did when I first started because the more I learn about them, the more inadequate I feel.

Click to expand...

I have to agree here. The more I learn the more I have to watch for. Taking a break never occurs in parrot ownership. And infirmity of any kind can increase this workload. When I get sick I get exhausted telling my wife how to do my daily chores for Hahnzel.

I think this is a little unfair - disagreeing with Mayden's opinion on the subject of whether people with bipolar disorders are able to properly care for a parrot is one thing, but she's trying to raise a valid point that none of us have asked about the specifics of the individual's illness, and questioning her understanding of what it take to care for a parrot seems misguided given the number of posts suggesting the contrary.

Back on topic, I appreciate it's a spectrum illness and there may well be people with a mild form of it that may be able to benefit from a relationship with a bird. I can only base my own opinion on people I know who have the illness, and it's a rotten thing to deal with - and very different in nature to any of the illnesses we've discussed in a couple of recent threads. In my experience the two people I know who have it and are being treated for it (one of those lives with her partner and does ok as long as she's on meds, the other is often in hospital for long stretches of time) would not be ideal candidates to care for an animal as needy as a parrot. I guess it's for the individual couple to research carefully before making any decisions but I'd still say tread very carefully.

Therapy birds?

More like, I'll be needing therapy after Boomer...

Just kidding! (sorta)

Another look at this subject is exposing the ill person to a therapy parrot. I use to work with my Eclectus parrot Joaquin as a therapy pet. I use to take him to visit the Hospice patients and I took him to the mentally ill wards to help patients feel better. Joaquin had a unique talent for helping people feel better. He bought the dying peace and helped the depressed feel some light. Joaquin brought their pain into himself and helped people. I never had a companion like this and was in awe of him every time I took him for this work.

I miss being involved with this kind of work and I hope to get involved again. But I need the right kind of bird for this kind of work and frankly Valentino is not the parrot to be a therapy pet. He is too large, loud and busy for such work. Valentino can be a handful believe me so I know he would make a wonderful performing bird but not calm enough for therapy work. This is the scenario I see in my head involving Valentino:

I walk into the patients room with Valentino.
"Good morning Mr. Smith. This is Valentino.."
"HIIIIIIIIII" Valentino says LOUDLY interrupting me while bobbing his head up and down. He then hops off my hand into the bed and begins to play with the blanket. I get Valentino to step back up on my hand but because I took him away from him wanting to play with the blanket he takes off flying around in the room probably scaring the poor patient.

Yea, Valentino would make a terrible therapy pet.

Pajarita said:

I think that the reason why you don't understand where I am coming from is because you believe that parrots are not hard to keep while I happen to feel completely the opposite. I think that parrots are HUGELY difficult to keep happy and healthy. So much so that I think that it's VERY hard to do even for people who are completely healthy, both physically and mentally. I've been doing it for over 20 years and it hasn't gotten any easier... as a matter of fact, I worry more now than I did when I first started because the more I learn about them, the more inadequate I feel.

Click to expand...

I don't understand where you're coming from because I feel you are being unfairly prejudice against the sick. Just because I described my take on parrot care as: "I don't think parrots are particularly 'difficult' pets to keep (for us at least)." doesn't mean I think caring for parrots is 'easy' for everyone. I find caring for my animals as second nature and so not particularly 'difficult.' My job is difficult, for me but is easy, for others. Dog ownership is difficult, for me but is easy, for others. etc etc. I do not believe that things are simply difficult or easy, but it depends entirely on the people who are attempting the task. For us, we find it 'not difficult' to give our animals all the care, housing, feed, hygiene, mental and physical stimulation that they need. But that may differ for others.

Which is where we again differ, you are seeing things as black and white, right or wrong, yes or no and it's really not that straight forward. You need to look at each individual case with all facts presented before you can make a decision on whats what.

You might find caring for your birds (and other animals, if you have any) as difficult, they might cause you anxiety because you feel you're not doing enough for them. I feel that too, it's a pretty natural emotion for any animal owner! But I feel confident that I'm doing the best I can with what I can for them and they are happy. So yeah, they cause me stress and anxiety, they take a huge notch out of my day which could probably be 'better spent' on my health. But I do not find them difficult to keep. Cage cleaning is difficult, sure, but overall, not to keep.

I appreciate that not everyone views animal/parrot care the same. I have 4 birds and 2 rabbits, so I'm not juggling a huge flock, so it's 'easier' than some. But do you not think I worry about Merlin and his bad leg? Brucie and his respiratory issues? Constant vigilance is needed to keep my lot happy and healthy and we have it, as a partnership. When I can't do it, Andrew does. We're like a tag team and so many other relationships, 'through sickness and in health' do the same.

I will also be one of the first to tell someone that it is unwise to get a parrot if they think it's going to be 'easy'. So please do not think that I believe parrot care to be an easy task for just anyone to take on. I used to work in a store and have had to decline people who are 'not up' to caring for the animals we sold (parrots included) because they just don't know what they're getting in to and haven't bothered to research. But if people are enthusiastic and are going to put in the work required to care for any animal, I don't think they should be denied that just because they have X condition on their medical records.

You have to be mentally able to deal with their emotions and physically able to deal with their care. Not everyone has that ability, sick or not, but some sick people do, including bipolar people.

goalerjones said:

I have to agree here. The more I learn the more I have to watch for. Taking a break never occurs in parrot ownership. And infirmity of any kind can increase this workload. When I get sick I get exhausted telling my wife how to do my daily chores for Hahnzel.

Click to expand...

I agree, if you're sick then anxieties and tensions will rise if 'someone' has to come and care for your birds, whether it's someone who is in the household or someone who isn't. If it's not their 'normal' carer, then it's stressful!

When I get sick, Andrew knows 100% what needs to be done, he knows signs of sickness and I know he wouldn't hesitate to rush any to the vets either. He is more than confident in handling them all, feeding them all, cleaning etc. All tasks he's done on his own for periods of time. Which is what I'm getting at about a supportive partner; me and Andrew are in the 'caring' role for the animals 50/50. If I'm getting sick, Andrew knows he'll have to step it up a bit and he's more than capable (understanding and able!) to do so until I'm back to a decent state of health. If you're having to 'shadow' the healthy person during your recovery, it's not the same as entrusting them to just get on with caring for them at the level that you are used to. Which is why I believe it needs to be an entire households decision when bringing a pet into the mix, especially if one of the primary care givers is unwell.

If both are not 100% on board for caring for the pets (including during sickness) then it's either not going to work, or it's going to be immensely hard on the 'well' person (lists and prompts needed, feeling more fatigued because maybe they work and have to do all their caring when they're done instead of getting their own 'down time'.) It's all second nature to my partner and so not really a burden, worrisome, or difficult. It's something we accepted when bringing animals into the household and it's just 'how it is'. and that's how some people work. Not everyone, which means back to my point, each situation is different.

Jayyj said:

I think this is a little unfair - disagreeing with Mayden's opinion on the subject of whether people with bipolar disorders are able to properly care for a parrot is one thing, but she's trying to raise a valid point that none of us have asked about the specifics of the individual's illness, and questioning her understanding of what it take to care for a parrot seems misguided given the number of posts suggesting the contrary.

Back on topic, I appreciate it's a spectrum illness and there may well be people with a mild form of it that may be able to benefit from a relationship with a bird. I can only base my own opinion on people I know who have the illness, and it's a rotten thing to deal with - and very different in nature to any of the illnesses we've discussed in a couple of recent threads. In my experience the two people I know who have it and are being treated for it (one of those lives with her partner and does ok as long as she's on meds, the other is often in hospital for long stretches of time) would not be ideal candidates to care for an animal as needy as a parrot. I guess it's for the individual couple to research carefully before making any decisions but I'd still say tread very carefully.

Click to expand...

Thank you Jayyj. I really appreciated that.

Just because I said parrots arn't particularly "difficult" doesn't mean I think they are animals that can just be thrown some food in a cage and left to their own devices. I find snakes or others of that 'type' to be 'difficult' because I don't understand them, I don't know their wants and needs, what to look for heath wise. But I do with my birds (and rabbits) and so I feel confident and 'at ease' with having them as my pets. By no means is living with Merlin, (of all of them) a walk in the park, but we don't see him as perpetually challenging us, as a burden or any other negative emotion. We see him as a joyful little brat in our life who also improves our life. So no, it's not difficult for us, just as it's not for many others. Sick or not.

I'm sorry for constantly referring to myself and Andrew as an example of sickness/carer/animal priorities, but we are an example of how it can work, despite failing mental and physical health at times as long as both people know what the animals need when one of us in incapacitated to some extent.

So again my point is basically this: each situation is different. You cannot paint everyone with the same brush. There are just so many factors to consider that you cannot ignore.

noblemacaw said:

Another look at this subject is exposing the ill person to a therapy parrot. I use to work with my Eclectus parrot Joaquin as a therapy pet. I use to take him to visit the Hospice patients and I took him to the mentally ill wards to help patients feel better. Joaquin had a unique talent for helping people feel better. He bought the dying peace and helped the depressed feel some light. Joaquin brought their pain into himself and helped people. I never had a companion like this and was in awe of him every time I took him for this work.

I miss being involved with this kind of work and I hope to get involved again. But I need the right kind of bird for this kind of work and frankly Valentino is not the parrot to be a therapy pet. He is too large, loud and busy for such work. Valentino can be a handful believe me so I know he would make a wonderful performing bird but not calm enough for therapy work. This is the scenario I see in my head involving Valentino:

I walk into the patients room with Valentino.
"Good morning Mr. Smith. This is Valentino.."
"HIIIIIIIIII" Valentino says LOUDLY interrupting me while bobbing his head up and down. He then hops off my hand into the bed and begins to play with the blanket. I get Valentino to step back up on my hand but because I took him away from him wanting to play with the blanket he takes off flying around in the room probably scaring the poor patient.

Yea, Valentino would make a terrible therapy pet.

Click to expand...

Merlin was very good with my g'ma in short bursts, but would make a terrible therapy pet. I definitely wish I had a dog that was appropriate for therapy as I'd love to do that! I bet you had a blast taking Joaquin around with you. I think there's nothing greater than showing someone, something you love so dearly, just how amazing they can be - and seeing them think the same!

I've tried to avoid this thread for a couple of days due to the controversial nature of the subject and out of fear of being harshly judged by my fellow parronts here. But I feel like I must say something.

Last year (in June) I tried to kill myself. I suffer from severe depression, OCD and anxiety (and I have fibromyalgia). I've been battling mental illness for 20 years of my life. I'm embarassed and ashamed of it.

Background...last year was rough. I had voluntarily entered a day treatment program in the winter because I couldn't shake off my sadness and my doc wouldn't change up my meds. I was getting desperate to see some light at the end of my tunnel. After being separated from my husband for several months, my kids and I moved back in with him and then I began day treatment. I didn't feel like it helped much, but at least I still had my kids & husband and my critters (2 cats & a yorkie). I've loved animals since toddler-hood and grew up part time on a farm. I work full time and am the primary provider for the 4 of us.

Fast forward several months and my hubby buys me a baby cockatiel who is still being hand-fed and at that time, didn't know about unweaned babies and the dangers. The pet shop just wanted a profit. I had owned cockatiels before and felt confident.

Well, unfortunately, Pikachu became very ill with pneumonia and a crop infection. After a couple of vet visits and an avian ER visit he still wound up dying in my hand, despite my efforts with the heat pad, antibiotics and following the vet's instructions. It was devastating to watch this poor baby struggle to breathe and then die. I felt so responsible and was wracked with grief. The pet shop offered a replacement but I wanted nothing to do with them. Now enter Trixie.

The kids and I picked her. I wasn't so sure if we would bond because my heart was broken. The kids adored her and after a couple of months we started bonding too.

Then, by accident, last June, I found out that my husband had been having an affair for 2 years out of our 17 year relationship and had been hitting on many, many women the whole time we'd been together. He caused much more pain by completely denying it and making me feel like my suspicions and proof were unfounded and crazy.

My whole world changed. I didn't know who he was and I was suddenly standing on quick-sand. Agony, sorrow, grief...these words can't begin to describe the torment by mind experienced. Not being able to make sense or mentally process this situation was awful and months of daily crying were ahead. Some physical abuse took place too, and my self esteem plunged.

I have no excuse for it, but one day I decided that living in such agony from this betrayal was unbearable and just wanted the pain to end. I couldn't think past it or realize that this thinking was flawed and that there was hope. At that point I ended up locked in a bathroom with a full bottle of xanax. The rest; the door being broken down, the ambulance ride is all a blur.

Those 3 days in the hospital were the only ones where I didn't personally take care of my kids or my pets.
That doesn't mean that I deserve these kids or my parrots or other pets. Most likely, I do not.
However, Trixie saved me. She really did, in so many ways. She was so happy to see me when I came home and that silly girl (if she even is a girl!) has brought much light into the darkess that plagued my life. It's a year later and I'm feeling much healthier (but still mentally wobbly at times). Now a beautiful Sun has also brought much happiness and joy.

I don't think that I'm the most stable person to have kids or birds, but here I am. One day at a time and wanting to live this life and take care of my kids, pets and fids. :64: