Unweaned babies a trend these days?

When I first got my introduction to parrots, when Robin was a little boy in the 90's... I'd always learned that a breeder (or hand feeder) hand feeds your baby until it's weaned and ready for sale to a new home.

For years since (until recently), I've heard the same thing. That "most" breeders or ones who are considered "responsible" will not sell an unweaned baby.
** (If you breed and sell unweaned I am NOT personally calling you irresponsible, I'm just saying that this is what I've always "heard" and read)

So I'm confused Since joining you here on this forum, I've been hearing on a regular basis about members getting a new baby bird, and it is a real BABY! So my question is, regardless of the risks, is this practice of selling unweaned, and teaching inexperienced people to hand feed, the newly accepted thing? I'm not judging at all, I truly want to know for my curiosity's sake, since this isn't how it used to be, and I hear it all the time on this forum now.

Even on my Yahoo bird groups and other forum I was on during the mid 2000's, I was never hearing of people having or buying unweaned babies. Or else maybe it was not 'talked about' then as it was not as openly accepted as today? Can that be why?

Im VERY interested in hearing your thoughts on this

That's a great question. I had also not heard of many breeders who sold unweaned babies.
It seems a little dangerous to me for the babies, if the person does not have any experience with handfeeding, but that's just my opinion.

I also have been quite surprised, couple breeders we know and have gotten babies from won't let babies go unweaned. But we have dealt with small breeders who treat the babies like loved babies and not just profit. Not saying breeder who sells multitude of types and lets babies go unweaned don't love their babies, just different mindset.

We had the oopsie tiel babies and when Victoria pulled them at maybe 10 days cause dad tried to kill them, it was a real challenge. The feeding was time consuming and worrisome to be sure she had everything exact.... not something I would recommend for fun!!

Only my lowly opinion..,, not to be confused with scientific facts

Unfortunately that's been a practice that's been going on for years. You just never realized it before but I've been seeing it for many years. I personally wouldn't do it ever! I've had people asking and I declined all the way.

It has become almost normal,thankfully in a few months selling an unweaned and hand-raised/fed is going to be forbidden here.

hacatta said:

It has become almost normal,thankfully in a few months selling an unweaned and hand-raised/fed is going to be forbidden here.

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Really? They're going to make it law in the Netherlands? People will still do it. There's so much illegal activity with exotic animals that people will get away with. Unfortunately.

People are gonna still do it regardless as long as they can get a buyer. Several years back someone was selling a Nanday here, it is considered illegal to own, breed, or sell in the state of TN. Same with Quakers and someone is selling one here on craigslist right now by calling it Monk Parrot which is their other name.

Here in CA Quakers are illegal too. Nonetheless, I've seen them around from time to time. Once I saw one boarding they labeled it something like gray throated conure. I've even seen them being sold here too. Some people don't care about the risk apparently. I didn't know about the Nandays in TN.

Yes they change the name of the Quaker too here off craigslist sometimes as well to sell. I was going um, that's a Quaker, not whatever your trying to call it.

I purchased dusty from Petsmart 8 years ago when I worked there. It was common practice for them to hand feed birds when they were in the store. When a pet parent went to purchase the bird, they were required to come to the store during three feedings to be taught before the bird is released to them. Sometime around the time I left working for the company they had changed their practice where birds were already weaned by the time they were delivered.

Monk parakeet is actually the proper name. Quaker us a term only used by the pet/breeding community.

I think the idea that getting an unweaned baby is getting more 'acceptable' or mainstream. Looking on birdbreeder.com quite a few 'breeders' don't actually own the parents of many of the birds they sell. They either have a network of other breeders where they get the babies or hook up with organizations that supply babies. I've looked at the site of one of those organizations and they encourage people to join to become 'breeders' and emphasize profits and how easy it is.
IMO many people who sell unweaned babies do not care enough about their birds to take the time and effort to hand feed and are more interested in the money. After all if you got into breeding for the money, why bother feeding the babies yourself when you can have someone else do it and still get your money. There are exceptions when the seller makes exceptions for knowledgable, experienced buyers especially current or former breeders. I think we'll be seeing behavioral and physical problems in many of these unweaned babies as they mature. I've heard of problems from babies being weaned on the breeders schedule instead of the bird's and I doubt the unweaned babies will be much different if not worse.

I can tell you that the breeder where I am acquiring my WBC will never release a baby that has not been fully weaned... my little guy is taking his time, I was supposed to pick him up a couple of weeks ago and it's looking like end of the month is the earliest now.

Same thing for the pet stores in Montreal. You can put a down payment on a bird to reserve one, but you can't take him/her home until weaned. Usually it will say right in the display window or on the cage "Not ready to leave!"

Dan

I despise the practice of selling unweaned baby birds to inexperienced hand feeders...

It's something else entirely if they are going from the breeder to a genuinely experienced hand feeder. Most folks can't do it properly... and shouldn't be called to. There are too many things that can go wrong, and the baby bird will die, or be maimed... so this is one of my top pet peeves.

HATE IT! HATE IT! HATE IT!

I agree that this is a pet peeve of mine as I have taken over the hand feeding of many babies that truly suffered at the hands of well meaning but uneducated owners and greedy breeders.

I was lucky and quite honored many years ago to be mentored by a really amazing breeder who taught me a lot! She has since passed away but her friendship and knowledge continue to be something I will always be grateful for.

I have hand fed the ones I could of mine not because I thought it would make them bond to me better as I don't believe that at all but because I know I can, I really enjoy it and I am all about and am in the perfect situation (working from home) to allow them to take all the time they need to abundantly wean and fledge.

It breaks my heart that my asthma has gotten to the point that I can no longer hand feed other kinds of birds, it was a joy and a privilege to make happy healthy, well adjusted babies for others.

I remember the first clutch I was given to hand feed from Kay after I had done it in her home many times was 3 Mitred conures. The first day I walked into the room and they were all laying in the brooder on their backs, legs in the air! I thought oh my god I've killed them! I get closer, still no movement, I am shaking and starting to cry. I touch one and they all bounce up like wind up toys, screaming like banshees to be fed. It took years off my life and when I called Kay to tell her she laughed her head off "Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you conures are known for that!" she said.

Birdman666 said:

I despise the practice of selling unweaned baby birds to inexperienced hand feeders...

It's something else entirely if they are going from the breeder to a genuinely experienced hand feeder. Most folks can't do it properly... and shouldn't be called to. There are too many things that can go wrong, and the baby bird will die, or be maimed... so this is one of my top pet peeves.

HATE IT! HATE IT! HATE IT!

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I do agree with your post. IMHO I feel strongly about it, though I know the opinions on this forum are divided. I was just SO surprised when I started hearing it all over this forum. I've never heard of it with this much frequency before!

Makes sense as mammafuzz said, MANY more brokers out there than ever, and of course they want fast turnover to get the money asap. My OTHER beef with brokers are they typically aren't careful of disease transmission. My first Bronze Winged came from a bird store who got her from a broker. I found that out after she died of PDD.
I personally would NEVER even have the desire, even if I had the time to hand feed a new chick. I'll leave it up to the professionals!

Unfortunately it is more popular that you think, and I totally disagree with it 110%

babies should stay with the parents until they are weaned, if the breeder can't be bothered to hand feed, and sells them for profit so he doesn't have to feed,then he should not be breeding, period.....and find another line of work.

I too, decline all the way, I just had a breeder offer me money today for my 3 baby cockatiels, I felt like telling him to get stuffed, but I politely declined.

crimson said:

Unfortunately it is more popular that you think, and I totally disagree with it 110%

babies should stay with the parents until they are weaned, if the breeder can't be bothered to hand feed, and sells them for profit so he doesn't have to feed,then he should not be breeding, period.....and find another line of work.

I too, decline all the way, I just had a breeder offer me money today for my 3 baby cockatiels, I felt like telling him to get stuffed, but I politely declined.

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Yes, I bet it does happen much more often than I thought. I can tell just by being on this forum. Sad, but there will always be people out there more concerned with making as much money as fast as possible, rather than the chicks well being

I personally would not buy a unweened bird and a good breeder would not sell such birds to inexperienced people. I have read some people on this forum (in the past)saying they were buying a unweened bird and everyone advised against it. I do remember contacting someone who was selling baby green cheek conures. They told me when they should would be weaned ect. He went on to say to let him know if I want to come by and see them ect. There was one day he was not going to be available because he was going to deliver a couple of chicks to someone. When he noticed that this confused me he went on to explain he sold a couple of the babies to another breeder. I do not know how common that is.

Abigal7 said:

I personally would not buy a unweened bird and a good breeder would not sell such birds to inexperienced people. I have read some people on this forum (in the past)saying they were buying a unweened bird and everyone advised against it. I do remember contacting someone who was selling baby green cheek conures. They told me when they should would be weaned ect. He went on to say to let him know if I want to come by and see them ect. There was one day he was not going to be available because he was going to deliver a couple of chicks to someone. When he noticed that this confused me he went on to explain he sold a couple of the babies to another breeder. I do not know how common that is.

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Though I'm sure there have always been brokers since the early days, I have a bad feeling it is happening very commonly nowdays, since many people are looking for ways to make money in these tough economic times. Only about money, nothing about the welfare of the living creatures. They're objects for profit. As long as this practice is prevalent, I fear there will be more deadly disease spreading, and more babies dying at the hands of well meaning but inexperienced new parronts. Makes me sad, makes me mad.

Some species (Toos and Greys, maybe Ekkies?) are absolutely complex for MANY months and need expert specialized care or these sensitive species have a good chance of developing the various "problems" later in life. I once read an interesting article about plucking Greys. The study pointed toward the fact that the "raising" of Greys in many cases is not simulated closely enough to how they are in the wild, which causes the common "problems" in captive Grey pets. It talked about using an adult as a 'Nanny bird' who helps 'raise' the hand fed youngsters. It says that Greys have an extra long development process, and getting this 'help' from the nanny was essential in learning how to become a confident well adjusted bird. This "nanny" bird helped raise chicks for MANY months, even up to a year maybe? I don't remember, but I know it said long beyond what most humans do, and it seemed to make a difference in setting the stage for lifelong confidence and a well adjusted bird who isn't prone to plucking which so many Greys are. I've heard similar about Cockatoo development.

Sorry, kind of got OT, but I thought it was interesting.