Black iron pipe safety?

Kiwibird · Sep 27, 2016

It makes me sad, but I have had to stop using Kiwi's fabric cage liners here, as I can't even empty them over the trash can outside for fear of the mess accidentally drifting down to the neighbors. I have had to start using a large roll of butcher paper as cage liners instead. It's 1700ft of paper and is HEAVY and extremely awkward. I want a holder for it, but do not want to pay $70+ for one (nor do I think having something with a "cutting edge" in Kiwi's vicinity is safe). I do not think PVC will be durable enough to support it, so I am looking to make one out of those decorative "black iron" pipes. It is not something that Kiwi would be coming in direct contact with, but it will be near his area. Ay idea if that would be ok to use? Any other ideas of what to do with this horrible roll of paper I can barely move around?

Edit: I would be using taller pieces, but this is the basic idea of what I'm trying to make:

It would be on the floor BTW. I have no where else to put the stupid thing. I hate this paper

Flboy · Sep 27, 2016

From what I know of black pipe, it should be OK. You may want to clearcoat it with something after thoroughly degreasing it. If there is an issue you can always cover it with PVC easily! In fact, a PVC sleeve on the roller may make it much easier to use! I would suggest mounting it to a board for portability. And I am fairly confident that you would probably be using longer extensions than the nipples you are showing.

SirEdwin89 · Sep 27, 2016

Kiwibird said:
It makes me sad, but I have had to stop using Kiwi's fabric cage liners here, as I can't even empty them over the trash can outside for fear of the mess accidentally drifting down to the neighbors. I have had to start using a large roll of butcher paper as cage liners instead. It's 1700ft of paper and is HEAVY and extremely awkward. I want a holder for it, but do not want to pay $70+ for one (nor do I think having something with a "cutting edge" in Kiwi's vicinity is safe). I do not think PVC will be durable enough to support it, so I am looking to make one out of those decorative "black iron" pipes. It is not something that Kiwi would be coming in direct contact with, but it will be near his area. Ay idea if that would be ok to use? Any other ideas of what to do with this horrible roll of paper I can barely move around?

Edit: I would be using taller pieces, but this is the basic idea of what I'm trying to make:

It would be on the floor BTW. I have no where else to put the stupid thing. I hate this paper

I might have some suggestions that could help, what are the dimensions of the cage tray, and how high is it off the floor? (maybe the tray dimensions and if you could just take a picture of what the lower end of the cage looks like)

They make rolls of painters masking paper that come in just about every width you can think of, and it isn't super heavy either, but works great for bird mess!

As long as kiwi isn't chewing on the black pipe it should be fine. It holds the zinc dangers most do, but without the ability to ingest anything from it, should be totally bird safe.

Flboy · Sep 27, 2016

SirEdwin89 said:
As long as kiwi isn't chewing on the black pipe it should be fine. It holds the zinc dangers most do, but without the ability to ingest anything from it, should be totally bird safe.

Black pipe isn't galvanized, thus no zinc?

SirEdwin89 · Sep 27, 2016

Flboy said:
SirEdwin89 said:

As long as kiwi isn't chewing on the black pipe it should be fine. It holds the zinc dangers most do, but without the ability to ingest anything from it, should be totally bird safe.

Click to expand...

Black pipe isn't galvanized, thus no zinc?

I stand corrected, it's too early hah. Black pipe just rusts easily. Thanks Flboy. Though you got me doing some more reading, and it has me curious if the black pipes could potentially have a similar issue with the iron instead of Zinc, since the blackening of the metal is caused by the iron oxidization. I don't have any idea if that could be enough to cause iron poisoning/ blood thickening in birds even if they were chewing on it though.

Still, out of reach at least we can both concur that it should be safe! hah

SailBoat · Sep 27, 2016

Black iron (steel) pipe was very popular for moving Natural and Propane gas in one's home and also industrial building type applications. The approval of a Plastic alternative has its use dropping rapidly. So, prices are begining to rise rapidly.

I agree with cleaning it, but not degreasing. Rubbing it with a rag or paper towel is all that is really needed. Spraying it with something like WD40 (or using Corn Oil) will greatly aid in cleaning it and will provide a protective coat. Clear coating is something that can be done, but in that case you will have to degrease and then apply the clear coat. Clear coat as with paint can flake, chip or wear off. A poly sleeve may provide /improve the rolling of the paper roll. But I have never seen it in use in a professional application.

Rusting is only a problem if you use this type of pipe outside or in areas that are prone to getting wet. The area that the large roll of paper rides /slides on will shine after you begin using it. Continued use will resist rusting in the contact area.

Parrot Safe: Once you have cleaned its surface and have a very, very light coat of WD40 or even better Corn Oil, there is no part of Black Iron Pipe that will cause harm to your Amazon. Regarding either WD40 or Corn Oil, the test is that the surface feels clean and smooth, but not oily. CAUTION: The threads can be sharp and a light hit with sandpaper can be used to dull those surfaces.

SailBoat · Sep 27, 2016

I stand corrected, it's too early hah. Black pipe just rusts easily. Thanks Flboy. Though you got me doing some more reading, and it has me curious if the black pipes could potentially have a similar issue with the iron instead of Zinc, since the blackening of the metal is caused by the iron oxidization. I don't have any idea if that could be enough to cause iron poisoning/ blood thickening in birds even if they were chewing on it though.

Still, out of reach at least we can both concur that it should be safe! hah[/QUOTE]

The overall hardness (which includes its surface) exceed by very large numbers the hardness of even the largest Hood Bill. If anything, the threaded surface could cut away at the Bill. Hence, my recommendation to hitting the Thread Surface with sand paper to dull the surface. Iron from this application would only result if a cutting (hacksaw) or grinding tool are used and the resulting cuttings /grindings are consumed by the Parrot.

Kiwibird · Sep 27, 2016

Here is his cage setup. I will be re-doing the plywood surface under the cage/tree to better fit this new arrangement (and to save our toes, as it juts into the walkway!). The roll of paper I am hoping to store under the little vacuum off to the side of the area.

(And before anyone says anything, hubby was cleaning heater before winter when I took the pic, cover is now back on

).

I was initially thinking about moving the storage drawers under his stand off to the side and building a PVC stand that I can store his cage cover and lamp under and integrating the roll of paper into the design. I would love to integrate the paper into a PVC stand, but just don't think it would be stable enough to support 25lbs+ of paper plus the tree (though the tree is plastic and weighs next to nothing). Am I perhaps underestimating the durability of PVC or am I along the right line of thought here that a more heavy duty material would be needed to support that paper roll? Storing anything under his cage (especially paper) is a no-go. He takes baths daily and the water goes everywhere, including under the cage to an extent. It is either under the tree somehow (far away from the water dish) or off to the side.

Kiwibird · Sep 27, 2016

SailBoat said:
Black iron (steel) pipe was very popular for moving Natural and Propane gas in one's home and also industrial building type applications. The approval of a Plastic alternative has its use dropping rapidly. So, prices are being to rise rapidly.

I agree with cleaning it, but not degreasing. Rubbing it with a rag or paper towel is all that is really needed. Spraying it with something like WD40 (or using Corn Oil) will greatly aid in cleaning it and will provide a protective coat. Clear coating is something that can be done, but in that case you will have to degrease and then apply the clear coat. Clear coat as with paint can flake, chip or wear off. A poly sleeve may provide /improve the rolling of the paper roll. But I have never seen it in use in a professional application.

Rusting is only a problem if you use this type of pipe outside or in areas that are prone to getting wet. The area that the large roll of paper rides /slides on will shine after you begin using it. Continued use will resist rusting in the contact area.

Parrot Safe: Once you have cleaned its surface and have a very, very light coat of WD40 or even better Corn Oil, there is no part of Black Iron Pipe that will cause harm to your Amazon. Regarding either WD40 or Corn Oil, the test is that the surface feels clean and smooth, but not oily. CAUTION: The threads can be sharp and a light hit with sandpaper can be used to dull those surfaces.

What about food safe butcher block oil? It doesn't go rancid and I have a big bottle of it!

Flboy · Sep 27, 2016

As I expected, Sailboat, 100% on the mark! I used to work with black pipe, a good 45 years ago, and as a kid. Back then, homemade noisemakers didn't cause as much concern as they do now!

SailBoat · Sep 27, 2016

What about food safe butcher block oil? It doesn't go rancid and I have a big bottle of it!

Wow, by all means, Yes! Its like the gold standard for food safe and if my memory is correct it is very light (thin) and would get deeper into the metal surfaces.

SailBoat · Sep 27, 2016

Flboy said:
As I expected, Sailboat, 100% on the mark! I used to work with black pipe, a good 45 years ago, and as a kid. Back then, homemade noisemakers didn't cause as much concern as they do now!

I'm very glad you put it that way! If you have used the more common term, you would have gotten a visit by one of those government agents.

SirEdwin89 · Sep 27, 2016

That's a great set-up area! I love it. Out of curiosity, have you considered instead of having to put it off to the side, mounting the rolling mechanism to the underside of the cage? I'd bet you could set up one of the pull through liner systems like they use on the expandable habitats cages.

It looks like you have a metal tray, so it should be pretty easy to make slits in each end that the paper could slide through. Then when it gets dirty pulling the used section out and cutting it off manually (so you don't have to worry about sharp edges) which automatically puts down "fresh" paper.

Then you don't have to worry about the roll taking up any more space. Heck, even if you didn't mount it to the bottom of the cage, the same thing with the holder sitting on the floor under the cage should work just as well.

Oh, and thanks for the helpful clarification on the black pipe/iron contamination Steven.

Kiwibird · Sep 27, 2016

SirEdwin89 said:
That's a great set-up area! I love it. Out of curiosity, have you considered instead of having to put it off to the side, mounting the rolling mechanism to the underside of the cage? I'd bet you could set up one of the pull through liner systems like they use on the expandable habitats cages.

It looks like you have a metal tray, so it should be pretty easy to make slits in each end that the paper could slide through. Then when it gets dirty pulling the used section out and cutting it off manually (so you don't have to worry about sharp edges) which automatically puts down "fresh" paper.

Then you don't have to worry about the roll taking up any more space. Heck, even if you didn't mount it to the bottom of the cage, the same thing with the holder sitting on the floor under the cage should work just as well.

Oh, and thanks for the helpful clarification on the black pipe/iron contamination Steven.

Unfortunately, Mr. Kiwi has a naughty habit of "taking a bath" (i.e. flinging an entire dish of water all over) every day

. One of those battles I choose not to fight, but probably best not to put paper or iron that can rust under his cage. The tree is far enough from the dish I don't think any major soaking could occur and the vacuum area is definitely well out of he "splash zone"

labell · Sep 27, 2016

That does look like it would be a pain lugging that big roll around.

I go to U- Haul and buy boxes of their packing paper it is about $10 it lasts a long time and is already cut in nice squares.

Kiwibird · Sep 27, 2016

labell said:
That does look like it would be a pain lugging that big roll around.

I go to U- Haul and buy boxes of their packing paper it is about $10 it lasts a long time and is already cut in nice squares.

It's not so much the weight (though it is heavy) as it is the shape and size. I debated getting those pre-cut sheets, but don't have the room to store them where they wouldn't get all crumpled or otherwise ruined. I can't wait until we move again and I can go back to the cloth cage liners! I liked those a whole lot better than this paper.

Kiwibird · Sep 28, 2016

Another quick question, not about the pipes but the plywood floor protectors under the cage/tree. My car is small and there is no way I can get a single piece cut to the size I need and have it fit in my car (and don't know anyone with a truck or SUV to help). I will need to cut up and "piece" the plywood to make it the right size. I will be putting a new piece of linoleum on the top, so the piecing won't show. I can't see why there would be, but there shouldn't be an issue using non-stainless braces on the underside of the platform (the side touching the carpet where Kiwi would never touch it) right? Also, should I glue the wood as well as bracing it?

SailBoat · Sep 28, 2016

First, measure your roll of paper - length.
Second, measure your rear car seat - door to door

There should be enough room between the doors to fit the roll. This based on them being somewhere around or less than 36" (915 mm) wide.

If all of that is true. Look for a wide Pine finish board (3/4" (38mm) thick. You can find them around 12" (305 mm) wide and 48" (1220 mm) long.

Yes, 1/2" (13 mm) thick will work for this application and yes, you can limit the length to just beyond what you need. and a short width is also possible, but it becomes less stable as you take away width.

Most Lumber Yards and Big Box Stores will cut to length for you.

This will assure that you have a single piece of wood for the base.

NOTE: Even the real small cars can get a piece of lumber this size into them by setting a seat all the way back and setting the back rest all the way back. Lots of other places in a car to place this size board.

NOTE: By setting the roll so that the paper comes off the roll under the roll, this will great limit the tipping point of the roll that will allow to you to get away with only a 12" (305 mm) board. In addition, assure your vertical pipe lengths are only as tall as is needed to set a new roll of paper in without touching the bottom board will do the same. The taller the more likely to tip.

SirEdwin89 · Sep 28, 2016

I'm not speaking expertly here by any means, but I can't imagine it being a problem in any way. As far as gluing and bracing the wood, again not an expert opinion, but I would think the weight of everything to begin with would be more than sufficient to make gluing it down unnecessary.

Kiwibird · Sep 28, 2016

SailBoat said:
First, measure your roll of paper - length.
Second, measure your rear car seat - door to door

There should be enough room between the doors to fit the roll. This based on them being somewhere around or less than 36" (915 mm) wide.

If all of that is true. Look for a wide Pine finish board (3/4" (38mm) thick. You can find them around 12" (305 mm) wide and 48" (1220 mm) long.

Yes, 1/2" (13 mm) thick will work for this application and yes, you can limit the length to just beyond what you need. and a short width is also possible, but it becomes less stable as you take away width.

Most Lumber Yards and Big Box Stores will cut to length for you.

This will assure that you have a single piece of wood for the base.

NOTE: Even the real small cars can get a piece of lumber this size into them by setting a seat all the way back and setting the back rest all the way back. Lots of other places in a car to place this size board.

NOTE: By setting the roll so that the paper comes off the roll under the roll, this will great limit the tipping point of the roll that will allow to you to get away with only a 12" (305 mm) board. In addition, assure your vertical pipe lengths are only as tall as is needed to set a new roll of paper in without touching the bottom board will do the same. The taller the more likely to tip.

All the supplies for making the paper roll stand should fit fine

It's those large linoleum covered floor protectors under the cage I was asking about (figured I didn't need to start a new thread). My car is a coupe with a small trunk opening, so even though the back seats do fold down and the inside is roomy enough to fit a piece of lumber that size, I can't even get big stuff through the doors or trunk

My car is horrible for transporting anything big. I am thinking I need to eliminate the small square floor protector under the tree and add about 13" to the big one to fit the length of the wall. I can't fit a single piece large enough to fit the length of the wall in my car, so I will have to piece the large piece I have with a smaller piece to make it fit.

Black iron pipe safety?

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