DNA Gender testing/blood from neck vein??

sherylb

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So, I called a Vet to see how much the charge would be to do the DNA test for the gender. I was told like $60.00 for the test and an extra 40 if they had to aneststhize the bird. I asked why not the nail clipping and I was told because sometimes the nail wont quit bleeding? I was told they draw the blood from the vein in their neck? Anyone else know about this??

My Kiwi-green quaker, is doing so much better, he is almost fearless these days but still doesn't want too much handeling just yet. He will let me kiss is head and that's about it.
 

Tami2

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😬 I dont know about that. Yikes.

I got my test for about $30 online did it myself with a very quick turn around time. I did the nail clip & had the proper supplies all set up to stop the bleeding.
My Vet was charging around $125. The bird shop charged $40.

I didn’t ask my vet where they would draw the blood from. I just assumed it was from a nail clipping. ??
 
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sherylb

sherylb

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I've only had my quaker for almost a month now. I"m afraid if I clip his nails it will break all the trust I've built with him so far! LOL. The breeder told me it would break trust to clip his nail and make it bleed? She won't do it for me either.
 

Tami2

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Yes, that’s too early IMHO. 😬
I got Levi in August & did the test in March of the following year.
He was very forgiving thank God. And, we had already sealed the bond deal.

Let’s see what others have to add. I would personally wait, if you do the test yourself.
 

ChristaNL

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DNA:

Just get the feather one ... no bloodloss and everyone can do it at home.
They cost almost nothing (7,50 Euro or so), all you have to do is: get one, pull a few small feathers, sent the feathers to the lab and wait...

=

I always kick their feathered butts to the vet the day or day after they get here.
(make vetappointment first, get parrot later)
(I do not do cuddly, propperly bred babies, I get the rehomers after many places and maybe many fellow-birds in who-know-what circumstances)


I have more parrots to take in consideration: if there is anything wrong that is contagious or a problem I need to know like ... yesterday.


Sofar nobody has held it against me ;)


(actually it helped with the bonding - as the CAV pointed out to her students: Sunny was already leaning to me for comfort/ safety - I met her just 2 days before!)
(Sunny, that is, I already knew the vet )
.
 
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EllenD

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OH NO!!!! RUN AWAY!!!

First of all, there is absolutely no reason at all to take blood out of the bird's neck for only a DNA-test, that's a huge red-flag right there. If they must do a blood DNA-test and not a feather test then that's fine, but all they need to do is a quick clip of a toenail, get a drop or two on the swab/card, and then plop some Qwik-Stop on the toenail for 10 seconds...DONE!

So there is one of two things going on here with this particular vet: Either A, they are trying to get as much money out of you as they possibly can by telling you they must do a blood-draw from the neck for a DNA test and cannot take it from a toenail, as this is the only way to justify their ridiculous price they are charging, or B, this vet has no idea what the hell they are doing...I tend to lean this way for a number of reasons:

#1 There is no need for an experience CAV or Avian Specialist to put a bird under anesthesia to do a blood draw from their neck; my CAV does it in about 10 seconds with the awake bird in a towel in his left hand and the needle in his right...It is extremely dangerous to put a bird under anesthesia, even for a short period of time, they often die from anesthesia and as a result most Avian Vets avoid it like the plague unless absolutely necessary.

#2) If they actually think they cannot clip a toenail and then stop the bleeding with Qwik-Stop for the 2 little drops of blood needed for a DNA-test, then that's scary to me....I mean, how the hell do they do routing nail-clipping? LOL. I'd love you to call them back and ask them if they do bird nail-clipping, and when they say yes, then say "So then why can't you clip a toenail for the DNA-test?"

#3) Their prices are ridiculous anyway. This isn't the most important reason to never, ever, ever take your bird to this vet ever, I can't stress this enough, but really, their prices are ridiculous. There are several places online which you can order a test kit for between $20-$30 total. They mail you the kit, you pluck a few little, fresh chest feathers from your Quaker (which doesn't hurt them at all and come out easily), put them in the kit, mail it back to the lab, and you get the results in a week or two.

Bottom-line here is that you should not ever take your bird to this vet, not ever, as it's very obvious to me that they totally disregard how fragile birds are in-regards to the stress of a vet visit and under anesthesia. Any vet that would actually risk putting a bird under anesthesia for a DNA-test shouldn't be treating birds....and the same goes for any vet who would put a bird under the great-stress of a blood-draw from the neck for nothing but a DNA-test, when they know damn well that all they have to do is clip a nail...They lied to you about why they refuse to clip a nail for the blood, they know that it takes a drop of Qwik-Stop and 10 seconds to stop a toenail from bleeding, they have to, as any vet that does routine nail-clippings for grooming has had to use Qwik-Stop to stop toenail bleeding, as it's impossible to NEVER cut a toenail too close, it happens, and when it does happen it's not a big deal at all, that's why they have the Qwik-Stop on-hand while doing a toenail-clipping. They simply want to charge you more money for the blood-draw from the neck, which makes me furious because they also are totally disregarding the fact that doing a neck blood-draw that is totally unnecessary is going to stress the bird out even more, and birds under great stress can end tragically.

****If you don't want to order a feather DNA-kit online for $20-$30, which is my suggestion to you, but you'd rather have a vet do the test, then that's fine, but you must find a different vet. I don't know if that vet you called is an "Exotics" Vet, sounds like it to me, as no Avian Specialist or Certified Avian Vet would even suggest putting a bird under anesthesia for a DNA-test, that's just irresponsible, dangerous, and stupid. There are good "Exotics" Vets and very, very, very bad "Exotics" Vets. There is no grey-area here, they are either very experienced with birds and are good (ala Dr, K on the National Geographic Channel), or they are absolutely horrible because they don't specialize in any particular animal, they simply see all animals and that's it...

If you have to drive a few hours one-way to get to your nearest Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist (not certified but they only treat birds as opposed to an Exotics Vet), then do it. It's priceless to find an Avian Vet you trust and that is good. Priceless. Now for just this DNA-test, you should just call around and ask how they do their bird DNA-tests and what they cost. The only way you should take your bird to a vet for a DNA-test is if they either do a feather test where they simply pluck a few fresh chest feathers and that's it, or they do a blood test and they do it by clipping a single toenail and then stop the bleeding, and that's it, no anesthesia...It shouldn't be hard to find a vet that does it one of these two ways. But please do not allow anyone to do a blood-draw from your bird's neck or put them under anesthesia for a DNA-test! It's totally unnecessary, dangerous, risky, and could very well end horribly...
 
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sherylb

sherylb

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I had no intention of taking Kiwi to this vet!!! I'd rather not even know the gender. I might try the feather plucking. I just don't want to be the one hurting Kiwi. I might just call around too and see what I can find. I do need to find a good Aviary Vet so I might as well do that and see what I can find .
 

SailBoat

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We follow the set the Vet Appointment, than pick-up the Parrot approach as noted above. Plus, that first Vet visit is a full blood spectrum with additional testing for the active local bugs. The DNA testing is far less as they are completing all of the other tests and the volume discount rolls into effect.

As DNA testing has gotten so common. As a single test, most CAV are recommending a feather test since there is no reason for them to add they overhead costs for this single market common test.
 

EllenD

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I'm glad to hear that you aren't taking Kiwi to that vet, I was afraid you already had, or were on your way there or something! Red-Flags all over the place with that one.

The feather-plucking isn't that big a deal at all, but as Sailboat said, since you need to find an Avian Vet anyway, and all birds should have a wellness-exam once a year anyway, then it's best to just get it all done at once. It's one thing if they are going to do her yearly, routine blood-panel, then they do a full blood-draw from the neck, and can use that blood to do the DNA testing. That's perfectly fine and makes sense. What doesn't make any sense is doing a blood-draw from the neck for a simple DNA-test that if being done as a single test, can be done by a simple clip of the toenail.

That really kind of infuriates me, that they told you they couldn't get blood for the DNA-test from clipping a toenail because "They then can't stop the bleeding"...That really got under my skin for a number of reasons, mainly because it's a blatant, bald-faced lie that they told you in-order to put your bird through unnecessary, invasive procedures that they can charge more money for, and that put your bird at risk with total disregard. Well, that and the fact that it's one of the dumbest lies I've ever heard someone attempt to get away with. I mean, they're a vet that treats birds and certainly does bird toenail-clipping as a normal grooming service, which requires being able to stop toenail bleeding on a regular, daily basis, lol. It's no different at all than clipping a dog's toenails, lol. Sometimes you clip too much off, they bleed, you use Qwik-Stop, it's fine. That's just awful...

Like I said, even if you have to drive a couple of hours one-way to find a CAV or Avian Specialist Vet it's sooooo worth it. And hang-onto them once you find them...
 

wrench13

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Just had Salty in for a full 'test for everything' type of exam ( part of his birthday present). The Vet drew blood from a leg vein, no anestisia needed and it took all of 10 seconds.
 

MonicaMc

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I'm with Sailboat here. If you are getting bloodwork done then doing DNA at the same time is no big deal. If just DNA? Not really worth it...

I've had my vet do bloodwork on my birds and she always does the jugular vein. It's actually a great method when performed correctly. That is, once they release the bird from the hold required to get the blood, the bird stops bleeding. No quick stop or any product necessary to get them to stop bleeding due to the way they hold their necks.
 

BoomBoom

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No to the neck vein. Seems excessive. For Boomer's DNA test, his a-vet got the blood from clipping the nail. It will stop bleeding immediately. Not sure what else besides quick stop they apply on it, but by the time I got him back, the nail is not bleeding. In fact this is how he gets the blood for Boomer's blood exams.

I would definitely look for another a-vet to entrust your bird to.
 

BoomBoom

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Also, welcome! :D
 

Scott

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Good grief, the vet seems to be a butcher! For all of the reasons previously posted!!
 
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sherylb

sherylb

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Just had Salty in for a full 'test for everything' type of exam ( part of his birthday present). The Vet drew blood from a leg vein, no anestisia needed and it took all of 10 seconds.

I am looking for a vet who will do this. I've called 2 places that say they take the blood from the neck vein. One of these places is suppose to be an exotic aviary specialist. I will keep checking to see what I can find.
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Another technique is obtaining blood from a nail. This can be done during a general nail-trim and ought be accomplished by a vet. Digit is first cleaned to avoid transference of unwanted organisms.
 

noodles123

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If you look online, you can get a veterinary product called "silver nitrate"---in stick form, which, when rubbed on an open wound, cauterizes the cut and stops bleeding. If other clotting agents do not work on the toe-nail, then this can be used as a last resort as well. It does burn the tissue though, so don't use unless you must. It has to be swabbed onto the cut to activate the chemical reaction. It looks like a long q-tip with a coated (tinier) end.

For a complete blood count, my bird's toenail did bleed a lot the first time they checked her and she had trouble clotting, but that was because she had liver issues which have since been corrected.

I thought gender could be tested more easily with a feather...
I have never done the jugular, but it scares me (just face value---again, it could be correct, it just sounds terrifying, as does anesthesia)---I know they sometimes have to breathe for birds manually (with a hand pump in some cases) when put under and that freaks me out.


In terms of nails, it has been my impression that if they know what they are doing and you keep an eye on the bird afterwards, the nail is a better way to go (excluding blood from feathers and looking at a CBC situation). I always watch mine like a hawk to make sure she doesn't pick at the nail...that's why I schedule appointments in the AM (and have been known to bring her to work as needed lol).
 
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MonicaMc

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Short video of an Australian vet doing a blood draw on a quaker parrot...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8TPhe_ZokE"]Birds: Blood Collection from Jugular Vein of Quaker Parrot - YouTube[/ame]


My vet actually bends the needle to make the blood withdrawal easier, a little more like the following video with a different vet taking blood from a green cheek.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyW4tTl1Sfg"]Conure Jugular Venipuncture - YouTube[/ame]



These birds are amazingly calm though! It usually takes one person to hold the bird, a second to do the blood draw.
 

ChristaNL

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Yup- those vids- it's how they did it with the greys as well, since they can be handled by almost anyone there is no need to do anything crazy. Just stretch the neck a bit and the birds dont care about the needle.

But really, if your local vets are all being sphincter-orifices about any of this this -> just buy a feathertest(DNA)kit and DIY. Your bird wont mind and you will not have to worry. ;)
(Mine went in for the full bloodwork at that time, for just DNA I would have gone with the DIY-option, and I am no hero!)
 
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EllenD

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This is exactly why it's so important to only take your birds to either a Certified Avian Vet, or an Avian Specialist Vet that only treats birds. Most General Vets are at least honest and responsible enough to say "Nope, I don't see anything but dogs and cats", or at the very least "Well, I can see your bird, but if he needs any testing done at all beyond a Fecal Culture, I'm not doing it!". However, a lot of "Exotic's" Vets either know they aren't able to perform certain tests and procedures on birds and some reptiles, or they think that they are able, either way the end-result always seems to be that the bird doesn't get done what it needs.

If a Vet tells you that they cannot do a simple, routine blood-draw from your bird's neck, or they make-up ridiculous excuses as to why they can't do a blood-draw, or try to tell you that "it's not safe to take blood from a bird", like they did in this case, then you simply are not seeing a Vet who is qualified to treat birds, and you need to leave and find the closest Avian Specialist to you. And if you have to drive a few hours one-way to get to the closest CAV or Avian Specialist to you, then that's what you have to do, and it's well worth the drive.

I've seen my CAV take blood from my birds many times (they all have blood work done once a year during their wellness-exams), and it's not at all a big deal. In fact, the actual physical exam of the bird where they look all over their body, under their wings, around their vent, checking their feathers and their skin, looking in their ears, eyes, mouth, and nostrils, etc. is much more stressful and much more of a big deal than the blood draw from the neck is. He literally picks the bird up, gets the bird positioned in his left hand with the bird's head clasped between his finger and thumb, he uses a little water to wet the feathers covering the vein and split them apart so he can visualize the vein, he wipes the area with an alcohol swab, he sticks the needle in, takes the blood, and is done in less than 15 seconds or so. That's it. And as already mentioned, the puncture closes right up on it's own, just like when we get blood taken. It's no more invasive than when we get blood taken from our arms. And they lose only the blood that is collected for testing, that's it. So any Vet who says otherwise simply doesn't know what they're talking about, or they are making excuses because they don't feel comfortable doing it, and if this occurs then you shouldn't allow them do it anyway.

And as already mentioned several times, even thought doing a blood-draw from the neck vein is not that big a deal for a bird, they do still have to be restrained by the Vet, and they do still have to have a needle prick, etc. So if you're ONLY having to get blood from your bird for a DNA test, that's it, and you're not having any other blood-work done at the time, then you do not want them to do a blood draw from the neck. It would be totally unnecessary to put your bird through the stress of being restrained and having a needle prick, etc. simply for a DNA test; also, there's no need to do a blood draw from the neck for only a DNA test, as a DNA test only uses a single drop of blood, that's it. So even if you have a very good, experienced Avian Specialist Vet who knows how to do a neck blood-draw from a bird, there's still no need to do so for ONLY a DNA test, as they would be taking out much more blood than needed for the DNA test, and probably just disposing of the rest. ****A simple toenail clip is absolutely the best way to collect the drop or so of blood needed for a lone DNA test. Clip, collect a drop or two on the card or the swab, then clot with Qwik-Stop, and the whole thing is done in 1-2 minutes. That's it. Or they can do a feather-test. Either way, there is no need to do a blood-draw from the neck...

***However, if you want to get your bird DNA-tested and your bird has never had routine, baseline blood tests done, then be smart about it and take advantage of this opportunity. You should have your bird go through a wellness-exam at least once a year, and ideally that wellness-exam will always include routine, baseline blood-tests, such as CBC, DIFF, CHEM7, Coags, and then also liver and kidney functions. These are just the routine, basic blood tests that will rule-out or confirm infection, anemia, etc., as well as assess your bird's liver and kidney health. This is the best way to stay ahead of your bird's health, as we all know we cannot rely upon them to show us that they are ill. So, if you decide that you want to get a DNA test done on your bird, then take advantage of the situation and have them run a complete, baseline blood work-up. Or, if you're getting your bird's yearly wellness-exam blood-work done, and you've thought about getting them DNA-tested but haven't ever gotten it done, then take advantage of the fact that they are already going to be doing a neck blood-draw, and just have them add the DNA test to the blood-work.
 

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