Existential Crises, Bird Edition

buurd

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There was a thread a while ago that was about 'Mental Health and Parrot Owning'. I will admit that i suffer from depression from time to time. I havent owned birds before, but have had my two Rosies for a bit over a year. And while I love them greatly, the thought of them never knowing free flight outdoors depresses me.

It feels so unnatural to have a bird in the house.. It's not what they were meant for, or how they were meant to live, at all. They should be free to fly and explore outdoors, and feel the sun on their backs.

I leave their cage door open as much as I can. So literally all the time that we aren't both sleeping, the cage door stays open, for them to choose when to come and go. It depresses me when I close that door. They have free run of their room all the rest of the time.

They aren't handraised, so they don't want to interact with me in any way more than us whistling or singing to one another, so there is no feeling of me hands-on enriching their lives, which might alleviate some of the guilt I have for keeping them. They seem more wild than a hands-on affectionate parrot, that most of you seem to have.

I know this is going to sound like unreasonable guilt to some, but I can't seem to shake it. :blue2:
 
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Flboy

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I keep being drawn back to this post, trying to find the right words!
First of all guilt is guilt! Deserved, undeserved, misplaced, misdirected!
I have just finished going through many of your posts, you are an incredibly caring person! And an individual who appears to be spinning wheels in your head with different views of everything around you!
Your two little ones have a great life! Could it be different? Yes! Better? You will never know!
I think you are trying to look through their eyes, imagining a perfect setting! Potential realities? Dying slowly, while being eaten by a snake! Or snatched up by a hawk!
You really are giving them everything! Including a piece of yourself!
 

Kiwibird

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Look at it this way, your birds were born in captivity and know no other life. They have no concept of the outdoors, and more importantly, no concept of how to survive in the wild. While they may not be hand tamed, they also do not possess the skills necessary for survival in the wild. They do not know how to forage natural foods or indeed what foods are safe/good to eat. They do not know what predators to watch out for, how to shield themselves from inclement weather, natural migration patterns (not familiar enough with the species to know if they migrate or not) etc... By the sounds of it, you offer about as good of a life as they could have, ample freedom, a bird friend, constant source of food, clean water and toys, a relatively safe environment (compared to the dangers of being out in nature), no exposure to the elements etc... These birds do not have a bad life and sound quite content with how you’ve been keeping them.

As a first time bird owner, the other thing I don’t think you were told is there are actually 2 “groups” of parrots- the companion species and the aviary species. Bourkes parakeets (and indeed many of the grass parakeet species) do not typically make good companion parrots. While there are exceptions to every rule and some people do succeed in hand taming them, for the most part, they are an aviary species that doesn’t typically show much interest in human interaction. Meaning, most people buy them to enjoy in an aviary setting, watching them fly around and interact with each other, not to interact with the human members of the household. I.E. pretty much your relationship with them, sans an actual aviary. It’s not anything your doing wrong, it doesn’t even really have to do with the fact they weren’t hand raised, it’s just inherent to the species.

Also, while I think these babies have a very good life with you and you should definitely keep them, if you are interested in a similarly sized parrot who you can have more of a hands on relationship with, you might look into getting a parrotlet and working with that bird as an individual away from the bourkes. Parrotlets tend to make good companion parrots who enjoy human interaction and have a big bird personality in a small package. Working with a single bird at a time helps forge a strong relationship.
 
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SailBoat

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So very well stated David and April. Your heartfelt words comfort.

From the harder side; Every year Park Rangers in the Northwest Rain Forests of North America come across Parrot cages with their doors open and the cage empty. Individuals likely feeling such guilt have come to the Rain Forests believing their companion parrot(s) would be happier in the Wonderland that those Magical Forests offer. Sadly, not the case and if the Parrot(s) make it to the beginning of Winter, they do not survive the deep cold common to Rain Forests of the Northwest.

Consider changing your vantage point. As David so very well stated, you're an individual that cares deeply for your Parrots. Your daily efforts prove that point. Dwell on those positive realities of your relationship with your Parrots.

Depression is an emotion looking for a subject to dwell upon. Parrots being free and not locked away in our houses is a tool that is used by groups to obtain monies and power. They feed upon our emotions and enrich themselves at our cost and sadly, Parrots suffer being released into the Wilds and their early death.

Consider changing your vantage point. Having a Parrot(s) is known as a wonderful tool of distracting /shifting ones vantage point to the many positive advantages of having a Parrot(s) in your life. Dwell on those realities of your relationship with your Parrots.

It is very important to remember that Depression is an emotion looking for a subject to dwell upon!
 
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buurd

buurd

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I keep being drawn back to this post, trying to find the right words!
First of all guilt is guilt! Deserved, undeserved, misplaced, misdirected!
I have just finished going through many of your posts, you are an incredibly caring person! And an individual who appears to be spinning wheels in your head with different views of everything around you!
Your two little ones have a great life! Could it be different? Yes! Better? You will never know!
I think you are trying to look through their eyes, imagining a perfect setting! Potential realities? Dying slowly, while being eaten by a snake! Or snatched up by a hawk!
You really are giving them everything! Including a piece of yourself!
Thank you, David; that is incredibly kind of you to say.

I do think about the bad things that befall birds in the wild.

And then I think, if given the chance, birds usually go for it, and don't think about all the bad stuff that can happen, because they're too happy to be free.

And then I think again, that even I wouldn't want to be free in Australia, lol Too many scary things live there :54:
 
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buurd

buurd

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Look at it this way, your birds were born in captivity and know no other life. They have no concept of the outdoors, and more importantly, no concept of how to survive in the wild. While they may not be hand tamed, they also do not possess the skills necessary for survival in the wild. They do not know how to forage natural foods or indeed what foods are safe/good to eat. They do not know what predators to watch out for, how to shield themselves from inclement weather, natural migration patterns (not familiar enough with the species to know if they migrate or not) etc... By the sounds of it, you offer about as good of a life as they could have, ample freedom, a bird friend, constant source of food, clean water and toys, a relatively safe environment (compared to the dangers of being out in nature), no exposure to the elements etc... These birds do not have a bad life and sound quite content with how you’ve been keeping them.

As a first time bird owner, the other thing I don’t think you were told is there are actually 2 “groups” of parrots- the companion species and the aviary species. Bourkes parakeets (and indeed many of the grass parakeet species) do not typically make good companion parrots. While there are exceptions to every rule and some people do succeed in hand taming them, for the most part, they are an aviary species that doesn’t typically show much interest in human interaction. Meaning, most people buy them to enjoy in an aviary setting, watching them fly around and interact with each other, not to interact with the human members of the household. I.E. pretty much your relationship with them, sans an actual aviary. It’s not anything your doing wrong, it doesn’t even really have to do with the fact they weren’t hand raised, it’s just inherent to the species.

Also, while I think these babies have a very good life with you and you should definitely keep them, if you are interested in a similarly sized parrot who you can have more of a hands on relationship with, you might look into getting a parrotlet and working with that bird as an individual away from the bourkes. Parrotlets tend to make good companion parrots who enjoy human interaction and have a big bird personality in a small package. Working with a single bird at a time helps forge a strong relationship.
I actually read about Bourke's for about a year or so, prior to adopting. I had held a bourksie in a shop once, so I also knew they could be handraised. I just ended up adopting this pair because I wanted them away from the woman that had them. So I guess it was a guilt-based decision, too, but I don't regret it. I love them very much and want the best for them.

I don't regret that they aren't social with me, because I knew what they were like from reading up on them, and they don't even preen each other. I think it just highlights for me that they are a more 'wild' species of parrot, rather than most. I think it's just more natural to feel like you are making a bigger impact in their lives when you are hands-on affectionate, and the bird knows that (of course that can also bring other troubles with parrots, lol).

I think my guys are content, and that they have affection for me. I can read their comfort with me from their behavior and their voice, so that's all good. I can see them having fun or relaxing.

I guess I just get this feeling when they sit in the window. I think they do have a concept of the outdoors, it should be a feeling of longing for them. They can smell and see and feel (when its warm and they can sit in the screened window) the outdoors. They know what branches feel like,and leaves. They can see the tree next to the window and the birds that stop by and fly away. They would have to be made of stone not to feel a longing for the outdoors, I think. All of their DNA is set up to understand life outdoors.
I know it's impractical, maybe dangerous, but I wish there were huge enclosed bird parks where you could take your birds to fly. I don't see my guys ever enjoying the outdoors like they should because they are flight birds. I know with med-large parrots you can clip their wings, even leash them. My guys will probably never be comfortable with being handled or walked around in a carrier.

Have you had a parrotlet? I read up on them too, a couple years ago, and from what I read, they are feisty to the point of attacking. I don't mind feisty animals, but I feel like I'd have to be extra careful for the bourkes' safety. I know love birds are supposed to be toe snippers to other birds, and they don't seem as aggressive as parrotlets. I'd love more birds, maybe one day. But I need a better paying job for that, too.
 
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buurd

buurd

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So very well stated David and April. Your heartfelt words comfort.

From the harder side; Every year Park Rangers in the Northwest Rain Forests of North America come across Parrot cages with their doors open and the cage empty. Individuals likely feeling such guilt have come to the Rain Forests believing their companion parrot(s) would be happier in the Wonderland that those Magical Forests offer. Sadly, not the case and if the Parrot(s) make it to the beginning of Winter, they do not survive the deep cold common to Rain Forests of the Northwest.

Consider changing your vantage point. As David so very well stated, you're an individual that cares deeply for your Parrots. Your daily efforts prove that point. Dwell on those positive realities of your relationship with your Parrots.

Depression is an emotion looking for a subject to dwell upon. Parrots being free and not locked away in our houses is a tool that is used by groups to obtain monies and power. They feed upon our emotions and enrich themselves at our cost and sadly, Parrots suffer being released into the Wilds and their early death.

Consider changing your vantage point. Having a Parrot(s) is known as a wonderful tool of distracting /shifting ones vantage point to the many positive advantages of having a Parrot(s) in your life. Dwell on those realities of your relationship with your Parrots.

It is very important to remember that Depression is an emotion looking for a subject to dwell upon!

I don't want to give my guys up. I love them. And you'd have to prove to me that you could give them the ideal life, in order to guilt them away from me, which I do not ever see happening, lol They are my family, now.

The thing about people abandoning their animals like that, upsets me so much, I cannot tell you. It's so cruel and stupid. People harming animals upsets me about more than anything else, and if they are birds and small animals, it upsets me more than anything else. My guilt or depression will never extend so far as to do something terrible to the welfare of my guys. If I had t guess, I don't think the people who do that, do so out of mental illness so much as lack of empathy for animals and a marked selfishness, where they don't want to have to take care of anyone or anything other than themselves. They're the same kind of jackasses that lose interest in their puppy when it becomes a dog, and that let their kittens out to 'live free' --when it usually just means that they don't want to deal with cleaning their waste up or spending money on kitty litter-- exposing them to danger, death and disease.

Edit: I get what you mean about depression. While there is an industry for it and not everyone diagnosed with depression may actually have medical depression, it is an actual physical condition, and it or a predisposition to it does run through families.
 
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Scott

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There was a thread a wile ago that was 'Mental Health and Parrot Owning' a while ago. I will admit that i suffer from depression from time to time. I havent owned birds before, but have had my two Rosies for a bit over a year. And while I love them greatly, the thought of them never knowing free flight outdoors depresses me.

It feels so unnatural to have a bird in the house.. It's not what they were meant for, or how they were meant to live, at all. They should be free to fly and explore outdoors, and feel the sun on their backs.

I leave their cage door open as much as I can. So literally all the time that we aren't both sleeping, the cage door stays open, for them to choose when to come and go. It depresses me when I close that door. They have free run of their room all the rest of the time.

They aren't handraised, so they don't want to interact with me in any way more than us whistling or singing to one another, so there is no feeling of me hands-on enriching their lives, which might alleviate some of the guilt I have for keeping them. They seem more wild than a hands-on affectionate parrot, that most of you seem to have.

I know this is going to sound like unreasonable guilt to some, but I can't seem to shake it. :blue2:

I don't want to give my guys up. I love them. And you'd have to prove to me that you could give them the ideal life, in order to guilt them away from me, which I do not ever see happening, lol They are my family, now.

The thing about people abandoning their animals like that, upsets me so much, I cannot tell you. It's so cruel and stupid. People harming animals upsets me about more than anything else, and if they are birds and small animals, it upsets me more than anything else. My guilt or depression will never extend so far as to do something terrible to the welfare of my guys. If I had t guess, I don't think the people who do that, do so out of mental illness so much as lack of empathy for animals and a marked selfishness, where they don't want to have to take care of anyone or anything other than themselves. They're the same kind of jackasses that lose interest in their puppy when it becomes a dog, and that let their kittens out to 'live free' --when it usually just means that they don't want to deal with cleaning their waste up or spending money on kitty litter-- exposing them to danger, death and disease.

Edit: I get what you mean about depression. While there is an industry for it and not everyone diagnosed with depression may actually have medical depression, it is an actual physical condition, and it or a predisposition to it does run through families.


So many superb answers above!

Your introspection and analysis is totally rational and suggests you are indeed a great parront to your Rosies. As captive born, they cannot be safely released, thus your alternative would be to re-home them to a potentially dubious situation. You'd no doubt feel a different form of guilt in that eventuality. As with many dilemmas, open discourse is a great assist to feeling comfortable.
 

Flboy

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“I actually read about Bourke's for about a year or so, prior to adopting. I had held a bourksie in a shop once, so I also knew they could be handraised. I just ended up adopting this pair because I wanted them away from the woman that had them. So I guess it was a guilt-based decision, too, but I don't regret it. I love them very much and want the best for them.”
Correction! It was a compassion-base decision!
 
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buurd

buurd

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Your introspection and analysis is totally rational and suggests you are indeed a great parront to your Rosies. As captive born, they cannot be safely released, thus your alternative would be to re-home them to a potentially dubious situation. You'd no doubt feel a different form of guilt in that eventuality. As with many dilemmas, open discourse is a great assist to feeling comfortable.

Thank you; it really is great to have open discourse on this board. You guys truly are a balm, as well as being such an invaluable font of bird knowledge. I'm glad I landed here ;)
 
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buurd

buurd

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So I guess it was a guilt-based decision, too, but I don't regret it. I love them very much and want the best for them.”
Correction! It was a compassion-base decision!

I will try to think of it as that from now on! Thanks ;)

I do have an overdeveloped sense of guilt. But if I didn't have realistic boundaries on it, I wouldn't have stopped at two birds; so there's that.
 

ParrontMitch

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Also, don’t forget that birds think very differently from humans, and don’t long for things the way we do. By placing ourselves in our parrots’ place, it is easy to think how we would be unhappy and depressed in our environment and long for something else... but if it is a healthy, enriching environment then that is a very human idea. Humans, as a species, are generally never happy. We can’t see the forest for the trees. All we do is look to how we could be happier, even when we are happy already! In general, if an animal is satisfied then it is happy with its life. It doesn’t long for anything else, being perfectly happy to see the glass half full of an awesome beer, not half empty! Which is a trait I have spent years trying to develop, but humans simply aren’t good at liking our lives. Birds are, though, and if they have space, food, toys, and company, they are likely 100% happy with their lives and spend no time wishing for something else.
 
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buurd

buurd

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I try not to project my feelings on my birds, as much as I can. So it's not like when I look at them, I feel sad because I think that *they* are longing to be outside and are dissatisfied. I don't think they are unhappy or pining for a different life. Those really do seem to be human issues that cause us psychological unhappiness.

It's more of an overall feeling on my part, that they are being deprived of the wonderful things that they were made for, ie flight and the freedom of flying the skies, touching nature. If you give a bird the chance to escape via flight, it will; unless maybe it's been bonded to a human for a very long time, and it has it's own psychological shackles. Some birds might go, explore and come back, and others will just go and go, I guess. But a healthy bird will want to go, and will delight in the freedom. I believe there is some healthy, positive feeling, and even maybe a conditional and momentary yearning, for this, on the bird's part. It's instinct, plus the natural revelry and contentment that we all find connecting with nature, or using our bodies to move through nature.

But I don't find it the greatest tragedy that a bird can face, not being able to fly outside on their own. Not experiencing everything in life, isn't a tragedy. For example, I would be perfectly fine and guilt-free if my girl bird never passed an egg. No harm, no fowl, haha.
 
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buurd

buurd

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As a first time bird owner, the other thing I don’t think you were told is there are actually 2 “groups” of parrots- the companion species and the aviary species. Bourkes parakeets (and indeed many of the grass parakeet species) do not typically make good companion parrots.

I read a lot about the Bourke's beforehand, so I knew they were going to be pretty non-social, for the most part, but I think you 're right that I didn't know there were aviary birds vs companions. I think down the road I might adopt a couple more birds for their company, possibly aviary types.
 

Inger

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First: depression lies. Never forget that.


Second: I have a parrotlet and she’s the best decision I ever made. She’s feisty as heck, and she’s my little bestie. You can read all about our lives together in her thread Bumble-ing Along.

She is an only bird, so you’d definitely have to keep an eye on one with the bourkes around. I know there are members who have them in a mixed flock so I know it can be done, but not sure how they work it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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buurd

buurd

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First: depression lies. Never forget that.


Second: I have a parrotlet and she’s the best decision I ever made. She’s feisty as heck, and she’s my little bestie. You can read all about our lives together in her thread Bumble-ing Along.

She is an only bird, so you’d definitely have to keep an eye on one with the bourkes around. I know there are members who have them in a mixed flock so I know it can be done, but not sure how they work it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're right about depression. I try to stay conscious of this and balance myself. I'm not an emo person.

I was actually looking at parrotlets, among others, when I was thinking about living with a bird. I love sassy feisty animals, so that doesn't put me off. As of now it's only been a year, and I am just learning the ropes with my birbs. It takes a lot of concentration to make sure they are constantly happy and safe. I think another bird right now would distract me. But who knows in the future. I took a peek at Bumble and she is adorable <3 :blue2:;)
 

dhraiden

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An issue I've often thought about as well. My Mom grew up in Guyana (a South American rain forest country) with macaws that were free-flighted and basically only semi-domesticated, so she has this view that my completely domesticated, captive bred parrots ultimately should be living the way the parrots of her childhood did. Fortunately she doesn't feel so strongly I that I'd reconsider boarding Mango n' Mochi with her when we're away on trips! But I get that view point.


Nature is red in tooth and claw. Almost no animal, nor bird, dies "cleanly" in the wild- even old age is a debilitating process beset by pain and fragility. The life we give our animal companions is certainly more comfortable, but there's no point to wondering whether it's a more "true" way of being for them - it isn't, not by nature's standards. A free-flighted bird that can be brought out for controlled open-air flights in a predator and danger-free area is probably living as close to an "ideal" life of possible, but it's still possible to find fault with that as well (so why bother)?


Don't worry, this is a concern for every bird-haver, and not one ultimately really worth worrying about. Parrot Mitch gave an excellent take - we humans are far more cursed to wonder about these things instead of just enjoying the contentment of the present, which is blessedly how animals exist.
 
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