Too much veg?

bigfellasdad

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Hi there. I've tried many times to get enzo onto pellets and failed...so she has seeds and veg on the whole.

I've recently just given her the veg she likes, carrots, various peas, peppers, rice both wild and white. She loves it and eats 90% of her bowl. I've noticed that she hardly touches her seeds now though. Is this ok do you think?
 

Lamb

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Veggies are always good! What has helped me transition birds to pellets it to soak them in apple juice and warm it slightly. It’s what I’ve always weaned babies on and it has worked maybe 75% of the time with adults.
 

noodles123

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Jul 11, 2018
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Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
It's great that she is eating vegetables, but I think that you are going to struggle to provide adequate vitamin balance if she is just eating veg and a few seeds.

In nature, they would be forced to eat a very wide variety of foods and they probably wouldn't be as picky as they are in our homes (due to their need for survival etc). To feed just vegetables, you would almost need an avian nutritionist to analyze the types and amounts of vitamins in the vegetables you are serving her and then then determine whether she is getting too much or too little of certain types. I also know that some high-fiber vegetables can fill a bird up without providing enough nutrients, so that is something to consider as well.

With pellets, the work has been done for you (in the that vitamins/minerals are added/balanced with specific birds in mind). I am not saying that pellets alone are find--- added vegetables and fruits as well as moderated seeds=still important.

You might also take a good look at his beak. Noodles has an issue with hers due to a genetic issue or weaning mistake, and so it is trimmed regularly to prevent interference---the vet has always done it the same way and Noodles has always preferred seeds (playing with pellets but never eating them). After a recent trim (that looked a bit different from the others) she actually began eating pellets....I was actually irritated/concerned when I saw the trim results (it wasn't extreme, but it was different looking, compared to past results). I am not sure why the vet trimmed it differently (heck, it could have been a mistake--not sure)- The vet didn't comment on the fact that she had done anything out of the ordinary...Consequently, I would still be worried/irritated if it hadn't been for the overnight expansion of Noodles' pallet (with regard to foods).

For whatever reason, this "new" trim seems to have made a difference in her ability to eat pellets! Despite lots of opinions on Noodles' beak from various vets etc (all indicating that it was healthy/fine), it may have been that something about her beak was preventing her from eating pellets before (even though it looked normal and even though she was eating other things). After the vet, she also ate a piece of hard corn (which is a filler- I know)-but she has never done anything but toss them aside before....It's too strange to be a mere coincidence. Historically, she always played with her Zupreeme and mouthed it (eating the powder that she was able to produce while rolling them around in her beak), but that was the extent of it.

The point is, she has never eaten pellets (she would sometimes grind them down, but never bite them) or hard corn until after this most recent trim...and her beak has never been allowed to grow to the point of obvious interference...She could always bite through wooden objects etc etc...so who knows...but now, she is biting off chunks of pellets and eating them like she would anything else.
 
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ChristaNL

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Sunny went on hungerstrike because I tried fouraging...
I put out a huge bowl of woodchips mixed with pellets and she completely freaked.

She is used to hover up pellets from her foodbowl (does this this without any issues at all) but mixed with the woodchips (safe animalgrade beech-chips) she does not regognize them as "food" anymore!!

Sometimes it is all about presentation ;)

The greys are finally getting it (they have no problems getting seeds from between the woodpieces, but pellets are no longer recognized as food).

I went to placing a handfull pellets on top of the chips, and they finally understood that it was food (again) ...
(it took them a few weeks! and they are used to me 'hiding' things in those fouraging bowls...)


Appearently pellets have a weird structure that makes it hard for birds to accept as "this is food" unless is is presented as such...
 

Flynhigh

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I think a big part of what everyone is missing is that parrots do have taste buds and although we have many more and right up to the tip of our tounge, Imagine using your finger to taste something you can't smell ( impossible right ) and I dont mean dipping your finger and tasting it. That's more of what its like for them. Giving them a pellet is not natural in any form and unless there's something in it that they enjoy including the texture and size....to them it may as well be a piece of cardboard. If your willing to feed it to your birds try a piece yourself and you'll likely understand why they wont eat it. Veggie's and small portions of proteins , grains , seeds and sprouts give them much of what they need and if your vet says their deficient in something then add that to their daily meals. If your steadfast on pellets they can be put back into powder form and added to birdie bread or sprinkled over the top of breakfast or dinner. My personal opinion is that if there eating more than 20% pelleted diet that this is also not healthy. Many rush to judgement when supplements are being discussed and added to food but still we shove bowls of pellets at them and that's ok?? . I would bet most haven't even read the ingredient list. Its a shame really, look at what we've done to our dogs and cats feeding this manufactured yuk. I dont think I've spoke with a dog owner that has a dog with a normal stool or doesn't have some sort of stomach issue. If your going to use pellets its on you to find one they like and then in moderation . There's only one way to see their deficiency's and that's with blood work.

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noodles123

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Jul 11, 2018
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Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
I think a big part of what everyone is missing is that parrots do have taste buds and although we have many more and right up to the tip of our tounge, Imagine using your finger to taste something you can't smell ( impossible right ) and I dont mean dipping your finger and tasting it. That's more of what its like for them. Giving them a pellet is not natural in any form and unless there's something in it that they enjoy including the texture and size....to them it may as well be a piece of cardboard. If your willing to feed it to your birds try a piece yourself and you'll likely understand why they wont eat it. Veggie's and small portions of proteins , grains , seeds and sprouts give them much of what they need and if your vet says their deficient in something then add that to their daily meals. If your steadfast on pellets they can be put back into powder form and added to birdie bread or sprinkled over the top of breakfast or dinner. My personal opinion is that if there eating more than 20% pelleted diet that this is also not healthy. Many rush to judgement when supplements are being discussed and added to food but still we shove bowls of pellets at them and that's ok?? . I would bet most haven't even read the ingredient list. Its a shame really, look at what we've done to our dogs and cats feeding this manufactured yuk. I don't think I've spoke with a dog owner that has a dog with a normal stool or doesn't have some sort of stomach issue. If your going to use pellets its on you to find one they like and then in moderation . There's only one way to see their deficiency's and that's with blood work.

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I agree the pellets are not natural, but neither is living with a bird in a house. In captivity, there simply aren't enough options and opportunities for flight/foraging/variety. Parrots outside of captivity fly many miles and find all sorts of random things in nature---the produce section is like the tip of the iceberg (plus, wild plants don't contain pesticides, and sunlight exposure changes vitamin D needs in the wild). Grains + veg are one thing, but OP said mostly veg and a few seeds here and there. It is too hard to know whether that is sufficient in terms of nutrients (in my opinion). I do think that a blood vitamin panel would shed some light on the potential issues though. That having been said, you would have to be consistent to ensure that their vitamin levels didn't change significantly (based on what you had in the fridge)...and with seasonal availability
of produce etc, I still think pellets are important, whenever possible.
Also, when crushing pellets for birdie-bread you have to be careful that you don't overdose them (it's easy to eat pellets in a powder and they are fortified, so birds can eat too many--especially when they are in something they really like). On a related note, heat destroys some vitamins/minerals.

If your bird WON'T eat pellets, there are special supplements that can be used (but only under close veterinary guidance, due to the potential for inadvertent toxic overdose). That having been said, I supplemented when Noodles wouldn't eat pellets (by mixing a vet -recommended powder into some plain oatmeal). 1. because without pellets, she would eat too many seeds and 2. because the fruit/veg she would eat weren't balanced enough. I used Nekton-S, but again, it is very important that you speak to your vet about dosing (because the directions are confusing and it will vary by bird type, and weight). I was giving her too much for a period of time (based on what I thought the bottle was wanting me to do) and thankfully, there was no long-term damage...That having been said, deficiencies and over-doses can both be deadly. For an Umbrella Cockatoo her size, the vet said she should be getting 1/5th of a gram of the supplement powder daily (1/5th of the scoop). That is not very much at all, so it is easy to overdo it.
 
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ChristaNL

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he...I almost got a heartattack when I found out that a large percentage of my (aka the birds) favorite pellets was .... peanuts!
(under a different name of course)

I was avoiding the gmo's, the riduculous amounts of sugars etc.etc. and thought I was doing fine...
so instead of 'going for the best' it's all about feeding the least awfull of the lot. :p
 

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Flynhigh

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Jan 19, 2019
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Its really no different than human's if we eat a healthy diet in moderation with exercise we too will live a longer life.
Offering only what the parrot will eat of pellets and then knowing they are being injested still offers little knowledge of what its doing for their nutrition. If we are going to be led by the avian food manufacturer's to believe that our parrots health is their main concern , why is it they mislable , mislead and continue to tell is what is best? Instead of just offering the best? PROFIT ! We all have families to feed but at what cost and to whom? Just because your bird eats the pellets means nothing unless you can see the testing results and only then should you feel comfortable knowing you've taken a step in the right direction. Also in regards to using ground pellets that again you would need to know consumption values before adding to any food , but this still begs the question even just being offered in a bowl is "my bird getting enough or to much"? As we all know they will pick out only what they like at times and not make great decisions. If we only do what were told and never question anything we dont make things better . Pelleted formulas are still just a convenience for us humans and as the avian diet is complex staying with a mainly fresh diet and moderation I believe will keep birds healthier longer. Again having a good CAV and your blood work up on your bird will keep you headed in the right direction also.

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bigfellasdad

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Wow. Thanks very much all, you have certainly shed a new perspective on pellets for me.. my cav recommends Harrison's and that's what i have tried her with and zupreme veggie flavour/shape pellets without success, enzo just turns them into soup in her water bowl...

She is due her 6mnth check up soon, I'll ask the vet again to do bloods although last time he said IRS not needed as she is in great condition..
 

charmedbyekkie

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If only Enzo was an ekkie! You'd be set :p It's been a work in progress to get Cairo to eat a variety of veggies in his chop (since most ekkies can't have pellets).

If your vet says Enzo is doing good with all the test results showing no deficiencies, I'd be less inclined to push for pellets. That being said, if there is a deficiency shown in the tests, then maybe be concerned then.

If Enzo only likes chop, then it might be possible to work from there. For Cairo (ekkie though), I kept reading about what wild ekkies eat and why, how their system processes food, and what foods have what nutrients. Then I built up his diet that way, which allows me to adjust for things like a day of intense flying. Perhaps you could do something similar for Enzo?
 

noodles123

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Jul 11, 2018
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Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
If only Enzo was an ekkie! You'd be set :p It's been a work in progress to get Cairo to eat a variety of veggies in his chop (since most ekkies can't have pellets).

If your vet says Enzo is doing good with all the test results showing no deficiencies, I'd be less inclined to push for pellets. That being said, if there is a deficiency shown in the tests, then maybe be concerned then.

If Enzo only likes chop, then it might be possible to work from there. For Cairo (ekkie though), I kept reading about what wild ekkies eat and why, how their system processes food, and what foods have what nutrients. Then I built up his diet that way, which allows me to adjust for things like a day of intense flying. Perhaps you could do something similar for Enzo?

Just keep in mind, Ekkies can't have pellets for the same reason pellets are beneficial to most other species--Ekkies are masters at extracting nutrients (due to their digestive processes).
 

charmedbyekkie

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Cairo the Ekkie!
If only Enzo was an ekkie! You'd be set :p It's been a work in progress to get Cairo to eat a variety of veggies in his chop (since most ekkies can't have pellets).

If your vet says Enzo is doing good with all the test results showing no deficiencies, I'd be less inclined to push for pellets. That being said, if there is a deficiency shown in the tests, then maybe be concerned then.

If Enzo only likes chop, then it might be possible to work from there. For Cairo (ekkie though), I kept reading about what wild ekkies eat and why, how their system processes food, and what foods have what nutrients. Then I built up his diet that way, which allows me to adjust for things like a day of intense flying. Perhaps you could do something similar for Enzo?

Just keep in mind, Ekkies can't have pellets for the same reason pellets are beneficial to most other species--Ekkies are masters at extracting nutrients (due to their digestive processes).

I complete understand that ekkies do process things differently; however, I don't understand why it isn't possible to have a natural diet that provides the same nutrients. If a person has access to the same or similar foods (not just veggies, but also seeds, nuts, berries, etc) that wild greys do (and globalisation does help a bit), surely it could be possible to create a well-rounded diet for a 'domesticated' bird. You would just have to be diligent and confirm with blood tests and whatnot to ensure you're fulfilling all dietary needs.
 

plumsmum2005

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Hi there. I've tried many times to get enzo onto pellets and failed...so she has seeds and veg on the whole.

I've recently just given her the veg she likes, carrots, various peas, peppers, rice both wild and white. She loves it and eats 90% of her bowl. I've noticed that she hardly touches her seeds now though. Is this ok do you think?


Pellets provide a fail safe for picky eaters and for our misgivings. You could get some 100% organic TOPS and crush into some foods? You can sprout that seed if it is good quality? Dry seed alone doesn't provide very much in terms of nutrition anyways. I couldn't get my G2 to eat pellets and as she is a fussy booger who was previously spoiled I was struggling to get her to eat much at all. But she does like * Harrison's HP Mash which is made with Chamomile tea (* not my first choice but grateful for small mercies). She will eat a little fruit and wants everything I have. If you get nowhere with pellets you could look into a suppliment there are several about. I sometimes use The Birdcare Co. Also arm yourself with a nutrition table to enable you to have some idea of what bases are being covered. Good luck hun. :)
 
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bigfellasdad

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thanks again all, ill get some Harrison's HP Mash as Enzo LOVES tea! Im also happy that nobody is specifically saying, too much veg is bad, although her fluid in her poops is not clear but coloured a little green or orange to match her veg colours.

Im happy she is getting enough protein as she does like to eat her 'monkey nuts' from her foraging toy as well.

All in all, I think I will get a full blood test completed at her next check up and ensure she isn't missing anything.
 

ChristaNL

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Sunny a female B&G macaw;
Japie (m) & Appie (f), both are congo african grey;
All are rescues- had to leave their previous homes for 'reasons', are still in contact with them :)
From what I understand is that veggies are the one thing we (parrots and humans) are allowed to binge on indefinitely.

(why oh why could it not have been chocolate?!)

As long as we get other nutritions inside as well of course- but that seems to be the case, so :)
 

plumsmum2005

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thanks again all, ill get some Harrison's HP Mash as Enzo LOVES tea! Im also happy that nobody is specifically saying, too much veg is bad, although her fluid in her poops is not clear but coloured a little green or orange to match her veg colours.

Im happy she is getting enough protein as she does like to eat her 'monkey nuts' from her foraging toy as well.

All in all, I think I will get a full blood test completed at her next check up and ensure she isn't missing anything.




Please do drop those monkey nuts they can be a health risk to your parrot. The Harrisons HP is fed for approx 6 months and then advise to change to Adult Lifetime. If you can get some natural Chamomile rather than teabags that would be better. Check health food outlets. Well done of that check up btw! I do give mine a little very hard boiled egg approx once a week to 10 days. Usually the vitamins that are difficult to fulfil are the B range hun and not protein. :)
 

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