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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2020, 06:58 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Quote: Originally Posted by wrench13 View Post
Maybe it is just the blockhead indifferent New Yorker in me, but I rarely find any of the regular conttributors to be anythhing other than helpfull, concerned, informative and empathic. Ya a few topics seem to push cerrtain buttons and obvious stupidity can be irritating, but on the whole this forum is like a beautiful day in the neighborhood,, compared to others or Facebook.
As I'm reading and catching up on all of this...

I appreciate your blockheaded indifferent New Yorker state of mind, Al. Our regular contributors ARE passionate, compassionate people who care enough to grapple with hard questions, and this site IS a beautiful day in the neighborhood. Thank you for that interlude as we continue to sort out our thoughts.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2020, 07:21 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Quote: Originally Posted by LaManuka View Post
.......The original OP we are discussing here ended his first post with the sentence “I am just a parrot killer”, and I wonder if he was expecting members to tell him that his bird would be just fine and perfectly happy after he had released it, and help to assuage his guilt after what he had done. When the responses did not live up to his expectations we were rapidly branded as “haters”, with the OP becoming rather more interested in defending his actions than in hearing that he had simply done the wrong thing regarding the welfare of his parrot. Regardless of what part of the world you live in, some things are just plain wrong, whether you live in Brisbane, Barcelona, Baghdad or Baltimore.
This was my read of the post too! He came forward, giving himself a beating, I feel, looking for comfort!
Wrench13, you are a hoot! In a very good way! I have worked many years in Yonkers and the Bronx! Very straight forward folks! You instantly know where you stand! Being in Florida for 30 years, I still slip at times and forget to leave my conversational safety on!
I agree, I felt we were amazingly reserved! But I say this knowing I am one of those ‘rude Americans’!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2020, 10:34 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Hello, all. I think what's happening here is the unfortunate conflation of two things which, beyond the surface similarity of involving someone who is not from either the US, Australia, or Europe, is largely unrelated.

Is there an issue at times wherein members can be somewhat culturally insensitive in their responses to posters coming here for help? Absolutely. (Though I would also mention that these instances are outnumbered by the times where the members of this community show compassion and warmth to posters in need of advice and succor.) We mods are very much aware that this is a problem and have been working for some time now to change that tendency. Or mitigate it, at the very least.

And I must say, to a large degree our wonderful members have been responding positively to our efforts. For instance, we see a lot more people making the suggestion for a Certified Avian Vet with the proviso: 'if one is available where you live' attached. And there have been far less instances of people being lambasted if they actually do not. Same is true of cage sizes and such.These are 2 small examples, but they illustrate that members are learning, and they are trying to be more culturally inclusive in their thinking.

Of course, we still have a ways to go. There is always more we have to learn from one another. And dialogue will continue along this vein for some time to come.

But all that said, the situation with the OP of the thread in question is not one of cultural insensitivity. Take a read through it. There is no indication that there is an issue with his ability to successfully communicate in English. He expresses himself rather clearly and fluently, actually. Also, and this is key, he knows that what he did was wrong. This wasn't a case of him practicing a long-standing religious tradition for the sake of spiritual absolution or anything else. He did it because he got annoyed. With his bird.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rhomboid View Post
On 23rd Feb I released my ring neck in the open field where palm trees surrounds the crop field. I did it since he was squeaking in the car cabin,I got annoyed and I released him...
There was no tradition, there. He acted out of annoyance. And annoyance is universal. While we all come from different backgrounds and cultures, we are all familiar with it. And I would think, regardless of one's views on releasing a bird into the wild, we would all agree that doing so out of sheer exasperation would be less than optimal as a rationalization.

But at the end of the day, the thread was closed because it had devolved into back-and-forth between the OP and other posters to the thread. There was no longer anything constructive about the conversation. He was defensive, some members were angry, and there was no changing what had already occurred regarding his bird. In addition, the fact the OP said his decision was, at least in part, spurred on by a bout of depression meant that we did not want him being beaten continually over the head about it, either. Leaving the thread open would just have allowed things to degenerate further. In short, we would not have been doing our jobs as moderators.

So, we closed it. And stand by our decision.

As for stickies, it wouldn't really be a matter of 'rewriting' or 'replacing' them. But new ones can be added. And old ones can be removed if they become outdated or are proven false. Here is the sticky process in a nutshell: A thread is created by a member, and if it is seen as both helpful AND completely representative of Parrot Forums' ideals as a whole, it is nominated by a mod to be made into a sticky. But, to help ensure that said thread is truly representative, it requires a unanimous vote to become... stickerized? stickified? stuck? stickied? You know what I mean. So, there is never a guarantee that any given thread will become a sticky. (Heck, there's a thread or two I've wanted as stickies for years that never made the cut.)

But, that said, a collaborative thread by Trish and Charmed would be enthusiastically welcomed, as both are highly respected and beloved members of this community. And there is every possibility it could become a sticky. But there is never a guarantee.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2020, 05:40 PM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Just to be clear about being clear (), I am in full agreement with the decisions and sentiments set forth by the moderators. If I could express these ideas more persuasively or clearly, I would. Proud to be on the Team.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2020, 08:38 PM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Ok! Typing this from phone. If that person did not have an Alexandrine , we can even afford to be even more harsh. The compassion is keeping in mind the bird in his custody and not exactly for the human. This is similar to the case of my neighbors who were about to leave their budgies unattended for a 10 day vacation. Even though I may internally feel like slapping them, I chose to be polite and compassionate or at least pretend for the sake of the welfare of the birds.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2020, 11:56 PM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Quote: Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
Ok! Typing this from phone. If that person did not have an Alexandrine , we can even afford to be even more harsh. The compassion is keeping in mind the bird in his custody and not exactly for the human. This is similar to the case of my neighbors who were about to leave their budgies unattended for a 10 day vacation. Even though I may internally feel like slapping them, I chose to be polite and compassionate or at least pretend for the sake of the welfare of the birds.
That is why you are such a great fit with this forum! We tend to be sympathetic for the bird's welfare to a fault. Last outcome we wish for is backlash against Rhomboid's Alexandrine. I was quite disappointed when he refused suggestions for care.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2020, 09:41 PM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Quote: Originally Posted by Anansi View Post

There is no indication that there is an issue with his ability to successfully communicate in English. He expresses himself rather clearly and fluently, actually. Also, and this is key, he knows that what he did was wrong. This wasn't a case of him practicing a long-standing religious tradition for the sake of spiritual absolution or anything else. He did it because he got annoyed. With his bird.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rhomboid View Post
On 23rd Feb I released my ring neck in the open field where palm trees surrounds the crop field. I did it since he was squeaking in the car cabin,I got annoyed and I released him...
There was no tradition, there. He acted out of annoyance. And annoyance is universal. While we all come from different backgrounds and cultures, we are all familiar with it. And I would think, regardless of one's views on releasing a bird into the wild, we would all agree that doing so out of sheer exasperation would be less than optimal as a rationalization.

But at the end of the day, the thread was closed because it had devolved into back-and-forth between the OP and other posters to the thread. There was no longer anything constructive about the conversation. He was defensive, some members were angry, and there was no changing what had already occurred regarding his bird.

.

Yes I empathise with you. But my perspective is as follows.
India is a vast country with nearly 1.3 billion people. Even though it is a single political entity it is more comparable to the European Union than to say slightly more monolithic entities like China. Perhaps the closest entity that it can be compared to is Indonesia but that country has less than 30% of the population.

It is very rare for someone from India to come and ask for help in their own crude fashion. And though what I say is politically incorrect, some parts of India are far more "crude" in speech than others.

Now if this person had only one bird, I will also whole heartedly go with the moderators's decision. But this person has another bird that our collective expertise can help though the human involved does not seem to be recipient of good advice (at this moment).

So my suggestion is that if we have a greater patience threshold before we shut off communication with such members, it will be good for the welfare of the bird in his custody.
So instead of being tolerant towards 10 rude messages, we could increase it to 25 or 50 after which we realise we are hitting a wall and close communication.

I hope that made sense. Again I want to emphasise the compassion is not for the human being but for the hapless bird, which in current circumstances is probably best off with this person only.

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2020, 10:12 PM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Cardinal,

I fully support the decision to close the thread although I would have done so the night before as it was clear what was going to happen then. Allowing for more posts to continue to degrade the relationship between the poster and forum members would only solidify the OP's negative experience as well as the forum members.

While the thread was closed, the OP was not banned and thus communication wasn't severed. The only thing I would have done differently other than closing the thread sooner, would have been to PM the OP and explain why the thread was closed and encourage him to start a new thread with a better attitude.....That may actually have been what happened and we just don't know about it.



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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2020, 11:05 PM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Quote: Originally Posted by bill_e View Post
Cardinal,

I fully support the decision to close the thread although I would have done so the night before as it was clear what was going to happen then. Allowing for more posts to continue to degrade the relationship between the poster and forum members would only solidify the OP's negative experience as well as the forum members.

While the thread was closed, the OP was not banned and thus communication wasn't severed. The only thing I would have done differently other than closing the thread sooner, would have been to PM the OP and explain why the thread was closed and encourage him to start a new thread with a better attitude.....That may actually have been what happened and we just don't know about it.

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That is in fact Standard Protocol when shutting down a Thread...
Our Mods are kind to a fault in that regard...
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2020, 01:15 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Just being the devil's advocate, but supposing the OP has no clue there was anything wrong with his attitude? In many countries, an adult man's opinion is everything and no one would dare challenge him in anything he might do, no matter how ridiculous it might seem!

I once knew a woman who kept two SC2s in a cage that measured 4ft x 3ft x 2ft. I spoke with her many times and suggested her birds would be much happier in a larger cage. 'Just imagine' I said, 'if they could fly about a bit or climb around and play'.

'Oh!' she replied, 'they wouldn't be interested in that. All they ever do is just sit there!'

I watched those poor bl**dy birds sitting, doing nothing in that cage for over a decade! There is no law by which they could be seized (I checked with the local RSPCA, which is not worth a crumpet and only cares about cats and dogs) and the police wouldn't interfere because the birds were not (visibly) sick. This was in Australia, where we're supposed to be a developed nation.

There are no words!!!

Once I had exhausted my own welcome in chatting to the woman, the only hope I held for the birds was that someone at some point might eventually have penetrated her thick skull and made her see how cruel she was being. More than once, I had to walk away before I made her angry. My only hope was to drip, drip, drip like water on her ignorance. If I got her off-side, all hope would have been lost. As it happened, either the woman or her husband died and the birds disappeared from the yard. I hope like mad they found a decent home, but I doubt it. Ignorance is endemic where I live.

What Cardinal is trying to point out is that the entire *culture* in some countries simply takes what we see as cruelty for granted. People simply do not see an animal as anything special: it's more like a cactus or a pot-plant. While it's young and cute and interesting, it reflects well on the owner. Once those traits grow old, it's expendable. I have learned in life that berating a person is not the most efficient way of encouraging him to see things the way I do. That's all.

In the interest of poor birds that may be subject to awful cruelty, Cardinal and I are only asking that we try a different tack and recognise different cultures. Help might reach those birds if we just tried a little harder.

I won't beat a dead horse any longer over this, but the moral high ground can be a lonely place indeed.
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