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Old 02-27-2020, 02:34 AM
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A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Hi all

This is with reference to the recent thread on the person from India who wrongly released his pet rose ringed parakeet.

I favour a more patient approach in dealing with such members because good quality welfare literature is not available in the various languages of India and possibly rest of Asia , Africa etc. Most of the good literature is available in English and this is accessible only to the highly educated.

So anyone approaching for help, even if they have made a grave mistake like releasing a human bonded pet bird into the wild need to be dealt with greater compassion.

So my appeal to the moderators especially Scott to reopen that thread so that we can continue to help that person at least for the sake of his Pet Alexandrine. In my assessment, despite his fault, the best future for that Alexandrine is for it to remain with him. At least he is willing to communicate and learn, albeit in his own crude way.

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Old 02-27-2020, 03:58 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Cardinal, I couldn't agree with you more!

Time and again, I've seen people from South East Asia driven away from our forums, simply because they came to inform themselves and were then harshly judged because of what they didn't know or what they couldn't buy. Once and for all, I wish members would realise that certain things are categorically *not* available everywhere in the world! That would include CAVs, pelleted food, decent seed mixes, enrichment toys (or, sometimes, even *any* toys) and large cages.

If a person lives in a remote part of SE Asia (where the Internet might be easily available, but retail shops are not), then it's entirely possible that he sees a parrot as a pleasant pet animal which can be easily discarded if problems arise or if it gets ill. Since ringneck species are native to the area, it's not unreasonable to expect a well-meaning person to think he's doing the bird a favour by letting it fly with its own species. It's entirely possible that he wouldn't dream of a parrot being unable to feed itself or find water. After all, the millions of wild ones do!

Flaming a person for coming here and asking questions is not the best outcome for the parrots. Instead, they are condemned to the well-meaning but erroneous thinking of the owners, who are probably good people (that's why they're anxious to ask for help in the first place).

I've seen photos of Alexandrines in Indian markets crammed into cages like sardines, with their poor faces squished against the wire and their wings bent at impossible angles. I've seen macaws chained to metal perches by a foot-long chain. What if a cat lunged? Or a child? The bird has no recourse but to break a limb or perish! This is ignorance, but it's not always malice. The best solution for ignorance is patient education. I don't know a solution for malice. If I did, I'd be a very happy woman!

Finally, I'd like to say that belting a person with a page-long slab of text is not always effective either. Certainly, the text might contain all the info the person needs to keep a healthy, happy bird, but what if he can only just read very basic English? Like: 'Hello, I do not know what my parrot should eat' or 'Please help me fix my sick bird'. It's so easy to get carried away with one's own hard-gleaned knowledge and spew it at the poster, only to have him leave, never to return. I know I've done it myself! (I'm notoriously verbose, despite my best efforts to stop it).

Perhaps a quick fix might be to rewrite some of the most important stickies in very simple English that could be understood by an ESL person (English as a Second Language)? Pictures of cages suitable for various species would be helpful (cages are *not* easy to come by in SE Asia and when they are, they're usually just big enough for a budgie). Pictures of food and seed mixes might be helpful as well. Pictures of home-made toys and feeders and drinking stations. The absence of CAVs is a problem, but perhaps a register of vets and/or university departments where help might be sought could be useful?

OK. I've done it again. Sorry for the length. I'm pretty passionate about this, as I have a feeling a considerable number of people have missed out completely on getting help from our site through misunderstanding. Thank you, Cardinal, for bringing it up again!

Betrisher
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:06 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Simply co-signing above. Every word.
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:11 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

I didn't post on that thread. But I felt compassion for his admissions of mental illness..

And I do see unfair criticism of people in places where there are not the same opportunities..
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Old 02-27-2020, 07:38 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

While I'm not sure what this person's intent actually was, I agree with the sentiment though I think the post should stay closed. He could start afresh in another post without the baggage.

Having said that, it's not only non-western users that are driven away and treated harshly. Many people come here and immediately get lambasted with what they are doing wrong and how they WILL kill their bird. A kinder, gentler, slower approach is needed for all.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:16 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Well, I will accept the stoning! As I fully disagree with reopening the Thread in question.

I was the first to respond to the OP as the Thread had seat for three hours prior to my response. And, I reported myself to the Mod Team upon completion of my Post as I believed that the Thread would not inspirer loving and supporting comment as I found it very difficult to control my own deep feelings regarding the release and had cut-out, re-written and made vast changes to what I had provided. Hence, I believed that others may find it equally as difficult to respond without expressing their personal heartache.

I know that I would have bulled though, climbed over, and took whatever measured possible to return my Amazon to a safe place if I had accidentally caused the release... As I hold in my heart the deep pain others members here felt when their sweet parrots disappeared before their very eyes...

I have read the Thread, now multiple times, and although I find where members had expressed their deep heartaches and disbelief regarding the release, I did not find where any member expressing 'Hate or in any way where they became Haters.'

Maybe it's just my vantage point, but with every member Post, I witnessed a response from the OP that was ever more precise in the use of the English Language, ever more pointed in defining members as 'Haters.'

Regarding driving off individuals who live in areas where Avian Medical support is greatly limited. I find it most common when the OP fails to provide any indication of of what part of this vast planet they are located, not ever a region. Yet, request that members provide Vet level support. Regarding, members referring the OP to seek the services of a Certified Avian Vet (CAV)... I will take full responsibility for that definition as I had activity pushed members to seek out the services of a CAV first! I to this day fully support that view point, all be it, I am now use the term Avian Professional (AP) as CAV's are still rare away from major cities...

And again, I'm willing to take the stoning. I will assure you that it will not be the first time, nor will it be the last I have taken such disagreements with my positions.

* I fully agree with Scott's and the Mod Teams position regarding taking down that Thread as it had run it full measure.
* I fully agree with the members who expressed their deep heartache to the acts take by the OP who's action flirted with Animal Abuse.
* I can understand the emotional drivers of depression, but in the end, as Humans, and especially as Adult, we are responsible for our actions...
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Last edited by SailBoat; 02-27-2020 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:28 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

My issue was when the poster said he was getting so many ‘hate’ comments! I understand there may be issues with translation, but I think, as a group, we were incredibly reserved!
So unless there were comments removed, it really looked like we were still being constructive!
Thank you for bringing this back up! I was going back and forth over that comment!
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Old 02-27-2020, 08:35 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Quote: Originally Posted by SailBoat View Post
Well, I will accept the stoning! As I fully disagree with reopening the Thread in question.

I was the first to respond to the OP as the Thread had seat for three hours prior to my response. And, I reported myself to the Mod Team upon completion of my Post as I believed that the Thread would not inspirer loving and supporting comment as I found it very difficult to control my own deep feelings regarding the release and had cut-out, re-written and made vast changes to what I had provided. Hence, I believed that others may find it equally as difficult to respond without expressing their personal heartache.

I know that I would have bulled though, climbed over, and took whatever measured possible to return my Amazon to a safe place if I had accidentally caused the release... As I hold in my heart the deep pain others members here felt when their sweet parrots disappeared before their very eyes...

I have read the Thread, now multiple times, and although I find where members had expressed their deep heartaches and disbelief regarding the release, I did not find where any member expressing 'Hate or in any way where they became Haters.'

Maybe it's just my vantage point, but with every member Post, I witnessed a response from the OP that was ever more precise in the use of the English Language, ever more pointed in defining members as 'Haters.'

Regarding driving off individuals who live in areas where Avian Medical support is greatly limited. I find it most common when the OP fails to provide any indication of of what part of this vast planet they are located, not ever a region. Yet, request that members provide Vet level support. Regarding, members referring the OP to seek the services of a Certified Avian Vet (CAV)... I will take full responsibility for that definition as I had activity pushed members to seek out the services of a CAV first! I to this day fully support that view point, all be it, I am now use the term Avian Professional (AP) as CAV's are still rare away from major cities...

And again, I'm willing to take the stoning. I will assure you that it will not be the first time, nor will it be the last I have taken such disagreements with my positions.

* I fully agree with Scott's and the Mod Teams position regarding taking down that Thread as it had run it full measure.
* I fully agree with the members who expressed their deep heartache to the acts take by the OP who's action flirted with Animal Abuse.
* I can understand the emotional drivers of depression, but in the end, as Humans, and especially as Adult, we are responsible for our actions...
Ditto!

That thread sat for so long, I think, because we were in shock over what had happened! I was afraid of my response, and waited to see what was going to happen!
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:04 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

To be very frank, this is definitely not the first time I have seen people forget the difference in cultures on this forum. As someone who had been fully accepted in two very different cultures and as someone who grew up in a multicultural household (that had the same struggles as every multicultural household does), I do believe that many people verbally say they understand that cultures are different, yet do not fully understand what that means. (Note that I am not blaming anyone.)

What is reserved in Western culture is still quite aggressive when viewed in other cultures. I know I now find most Americans (a group I was/am considered part of) to be incredibly aggressive. Yet when I code-switch, I realise that, in an American context, that American is actually quite soft-spoken. But in my current context, they come off as very brash, arrogant, and aggressive.

I myself had to change completely. Quiet, non-aggressive American Me still came across as aggressive when I first started assimilating into my non-American family's Me. I had to completely change my mindset (American Me has different values, politics, mannerisms, verbiage to Singaporean Me - so much so that I struggle to vote because the two Mes would vote very, very differently).

I even struggle to communicate now with my American friends because of these cultural differences in how things are phrased, what is acceptable to say, what connotations are implied/read.


TL;DR
So yes, to OP, it was aggressive. To the Westerners, it was not aggressive.
Both are equally true and valid. It just depends on if you want to speak in a Western style to a non-Westerner, or if you care to speak in another way.
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Old 02-27-2020, 09:08 AM
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Re: A more compassionate approach to Pet owners from the "Non West"

Quote: Originally Posted by Betrisher View Post
Perhaps a quick fix might be to rewrite some of the most important stickies in very simple English that could be understood by an ESL person (English as a Second Language)? Pictures of cages suitable for various species would be helpful (cages are *not* easy to come by in SE Asia and when they are, they're usually just big enough for a budgie). Pictures of food and seed mixes might be helpful as well. Pictures of home-made toys and feeders and drinking stations. The absence of CAVs is a problem, but perhaps a register of vets and/or university departments where help might be sought could be useful?
If you want to join forces and, with moderator approval, rewrite the stickies and include pictures/sizes of cages, pictures/multi-named foods, etc... I'm all for helping out and contributing. Am quite used to googling local food names (though only the names common to Msia/Spore) to find Western names for them And I'm very used to remote collaboration, so it wouldn't be a hassle at all.
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