The next step color/shape identification?

As some of you might remember, I have set out with the intention of teaching Kiwi shapes and colors (easier said than done right? :54. I bought a wide assortment of parrot color/shape/puzzle training toys earlier this year. Anyways, we started off with the swizzle sticks and puzzle toy, both of which he has gotten the overall concept of (though he does not match color to color on the swizzle sticks yet, just puts them back in the "holder". He has been getting better matching shape to shape on the puzzle on the first try without my "help" (pointing him to the right hole the piece will fit in).

I am wondering if it too soon to switch things up and try shape and/or color training with the other zoo max props he hasn't seen yet. I have a plan in my head already of how I think I can teach him that he will actually learn it and am anxious to try. I don't want to jump the gun though and end up confusing/overwhelming him. Do you think it's best we keep on working with the swizzle sticks and puzzle until he's mastered them? The only issue with them is the colors and shapes on them are very different shades than the zoo max color/shape props (and much more complex, i.e. all are neon acrylic and shapes like a 6 sided star and flower VS the simpler/easier primary color zoo max props like a triangle and circle). Kind of concerned we've been focusing too much on these 2 props and that he will master them but still not "actually know" his shapes and colors when we eventually move on to the zoo max toys. Any insight?

My personal take on that, is the moment he shows less interest in one, switch it up. Add the new wrinkle.

If he's still fascinated by them, keep using those. He'll tell you when he's ready to move on to the next thing.

The other thing that Irene's research showed was they learn faster using the "rival" method.

Have someone else answer the color questions... The little light bulb may go on faster that way.

I don't have insight on the subject I just want to say how cool it is to teach your bird colors and shapes..I want to teach my little girl things like that, for now I'm just trying to get her to talk a little bit more and stop arguing with me when I tell her no for biting the couch lol (she says yes! In a stern voice back to me )

Birdman666 said:

My personal take on that, is the moment he shows less interest in one, switch it up. Add the new wrinkle.

If he's still fascinated by them, keep using those. He'll tell you when he's ready to move on to the next thing.

The other thing that Irene's research showed was they learn faster using the "rival" method.

Have someone else answer the color questions... The little light bulb may go on faster that way.

Click to expand...

He's still quite interested in both (for the moment). What seems to have "clicked" so far is putting the pieces where they go in their respective places. I was using the cue "puzzle it" then handing him a piece to put where it went. Now I'm *trying* to put 2 or 3 pieces down and cue "puzzle purple square", but we're not having much luck with that:54: If I touch the intended piece as I cue, he gets that, but he seems to not be learning the cue words associated with the individual pieces. Maybe using BOTH characteristics is the issue? Perhaps learning one characteristic of the puzzle piece at a time would be better (i.e. "puzzle purple" or "puzzle square" instead of "puzzle purple square")? I'm just not quite sure "how" to make that connection, or if it's just a matter of patience. We aren't following any training program, I'm just...."free training" him using similar methods to how I trained him to be a well behaved boy (which was never with target sticks or clickers). It's also why I think the zoo max toys may be easier. There are just 4 basic shapes, 4 basic colors. The ones we've been working on have 5 random shapes (6 if you count the swizzle sticks as a shape) and 5 random SUPER NEON colors.

Could a human be an "rival"? Perhaps bring hubby into the mix and have him be Kiwi's "competitor" for rewards:09: The "way" in which I teach Kiwi (tricks) has always been me "cuing" myself, doing the action then rewarding myself. He seems to learn best by observing.

Mariar said:

I don't have insight on the subject I just want to say how cool it is to teach your bird colors and shapes..I want to teach my little girl things like that, for now I'm just trying to get her to talk a little bit more and stop arguing with me when I tell her no for biting the couch lol (she says yes! In a stern voice back to me )

Click to expand...

Your baby is still very new and you have a lot of trust building and basic training to do

I taught Kiwi not to chew what isn't his by teaching him the concept of "yours and mine". When he went to chew furniture, clothing, carpe ext... I would (gently) push his beak away then tap the surface and say "MINE!". I would immediately after that hand him a small toy and say "yours". It took a long time, but he eventually learned what was and wasn't his (and has the mental capacities to understand the difference between things that are clearly his like toys and things that are clearly not, like furniture or decor, even when he's never seen the object before). That is one thing I am so thankful I taught him even though it was a major PITA that required consistency and the patience of a saint:11:.

I don't do the target clicker thing either...

Actually, about fifteen years ago, a greenwing down at the rescue snatched my clicker, played keep away with it "can't catch me" and ran around the top of his cage clicking it... when I finally did catch him, he kicked the chess board over on clicker training...

He chomped down on the clicker and shattered it into multiple pieces.

That was the end of the clicker training experiment for me.

Not my cup of tea.

Hand signals, and voice commands.

Praise and food rewards.

And games.

Lots of favorite games.

This type of training should be a game...

And I think you're doing fine, either the light bulb just hasn't clicked on yet, or he's just not letting you know the light bulb has clicked on yet... (they mask their knowledge as well as illnesses sometimes.)

Ever have a trick trained bird that would do all sorts of stuff when you're the only one in the room, then when someone they don't know comes in, they look at you as if you are from Mars, when you show them something they've been playing with for the past half hour... :32:

What is that thing?
I don't know but it looks scarey!
Get it away from me...

"Yeah. Sure he does."

You might be right about "hiding it". Kiwi is a smart bird, a lot smarter than the zons I grew up with. I suspect, very much, he understands some of what we say (kind of like listening to a foreign language you somewhat understand a word here, word there). He doesn't speak, but he knows a lot of cue words and responds appropriately every time. If you spend enough time around him, he also communicates, clearly through his body language/vocalizations (and not just typical bird stuff) and he's always bringing newly communicated "needs" to the table. He observes and learns in a way that leads me to believe he has a higher level of intelligence instead of conditioning (putting toys 'back together' so he can play with them some more, intuitive understanding between his toys and human "toys", understanding of things he can only do in "his area" but not the rest of the house...). That paired with his slow road to trusting you might just add up to him not showing his full level of comprehension just yet. He's such a turd though if he does understand and sits there and looks at me like "what are YOU talking about?!"

One thing I've noticed about birds and clicker training that has always concerned me is how a lot of the one who know a lot of tricks (some of the birds of "famous" trainers) are like little zombies. They seem not to be social as much as looking for a click/treat and their neurotic repeating of tricks looks somewhat like the kind of behavior pattern you'd see in a bird with a behavioral problem. I've given it a couple goes, but just feel more comfortable with a more "natural" training method- leading by example/showing him just like he would learn new things from flock mates in nature.

Well, some performing parrots have had these behaviors forced on them, and there are consequences after the show if they didn't perform correctly...

You burn them out, and it's not fun for them anymore. Alex always struck me as being somewhat stressed and neurotic.

Einstein not so much... that's all trigger word stuff anyway... and he's attention oriented.

To me, trick training was always playtime. All I had to do with my conures was show something to Papaya, and Demitre would immediately fly into a jealous rage, and do the behavior to try and hog all the attention...

Py and Inca then learned it from watching Demitre... (The rival thing really does work!) Demitre was my star.

TUSK is my "plays dumb" bird. Sweepea will as well sometimes when there's someone new around...

Sally is my show-off... she has certain tricks that she knows strangers get a kick out of, and if she's interested in interacting with someone, she does those. God forbid you should ignore her when she's showing off for you, cuz she will pitch a little fit, until you acknowledge her.

If you've ever seen Tani Robar's parrots perform, they look like they're having a great time...

Especially the little green cheek and the Caique... "Look at all these wonderful toys I get to play with, and people seem to love me everywhere I go..."

You can see it in their eyes.

Sally liked those wooden kiddie puzzles...

The ones they make for babies, with the little handles on them. I could mix up the pieces for hours for her, and she'd just sort them out and put them where they go...

She also likes untying knots. The more complex you make the knots, the more determined she gets to figure it out. (Watch your fingers on this one if you take too long tying it for her!)

She also likes sorting silverware when I put the dishes away from the dishwasher.

So I've done the yours/ mine training...some days it works other days..she wants to argue with me..I think it's cute but try not to laugh. I did how ever get her harness on without a fight and got her outside for a bit the other day..I started a new post with pix. I'm trying not to rush things I know she's young, I just get excited knowing I have a chance to do these things with her lol.

I'd missed this thread, but VERY interesting! Have you had any progress since, April?

I just started doing colors with Perjo (CAG, 20 weeks), she enjoys it b/c I'm using colored paper so if she gets bored I let her chew on it. I can tell she's getting it, but she doesn't talk yet so it won't be easy to tell until she can better add verbal reinforcement that she's getting it somehow. Number will be next if she seems to like this kind of stuff.

I want her to be able to understand simple math concepts like "more" or "less".