the ekkie pondering...Mother Nature interferes with clicker training

Slight novel here, sorry about it!

I've started clicker training Parker as a precursor to flight training. I was going to wait until my teacup Yorkie passes (she's 9) because his flying is guaranteed to scare her. But I can't take his crash landings and bruises anymore. He needs to learn to land soon or he's going to really do some damage.

I'm in the early stages of charging the clicker and I'm realizing the quintessential ekkie thoughtfulness could REALLY slow things down.

To set the stage for what I'm going through; For those who don't know, clicker training is wonderful but before you can use clicker training to teach tricks you have to "charge the clicker" to teach the animal that *click* means good things. You do this by clicking the clicker and immediately giving the treat, which they snag up right away. *click/treat*, *click/treat*, and you do this over the course of a couple days. After which you can start using it for other things.

Where I'm having issues this early is that Parker is the quintessential ekkie, very much a thinker. And he's a slow eater! It goes like this:

*click/ [stare at treat for 4 seconds before grabbing it]*,
20 seconds later no more chewing= *click/"wait, I still actually have a little in my beak left to eat"*; {HA YOU JUST WASTED A CLICK}
30 seconds after that= *click/[stare for 10 seconds, don't take treat for no reason {HA, YOU WASTED A CLICK!}*;
*click/treat*.

Rinse and repeat. It's very inefficient. In a given session I'm lucky if a third of clicks land the mark immediately.

To fully disclose, I'm not actually using a clicker but rather using a verbal cue, a high pitched ""Goooooid!" I figure I won't always have a clicker when he displays a behavior I want to capture, so using a verbal cute instead makes those times more efficient. Plus it frees up my hands. Describing what I'm doing in terms of using a clicker just makes it a bit more clear. It's actually *"GOOOOOD"/treat*

Just needed to vent! This could get very frustrating.

I imagine anyone listening outside your home would think you've lost your ever-loving mind. I'm having similar issues with target training Dexter. He's got the desire, he just chews his treats so stinkin slowly that it takes forever between cycles. He will travel across the whole room to get to the target, but he won't even start the journey until every last morsel of the treat he's eating is gone. I'm using teensy pieces of pine nuts (like one nut broken into 4 pieces) but it still takes him forever to finish each bit.

Oh dexter! Glad to know I'm not the only one having this issue. I've been giving small bits of coconut chips for the treat. Maybe I'll try the walnut crumbles I use for harness training.

Just an idea from a bird-newbie but, what if you offer him treats first and then when he's ready and actually TAKES the treat give a click as he touches it? I don't know if that would be psychologically wrong or not, but seems like he may associate treat with clicker faster that way...

I don't use treats I really look like a goofy Red head jumping up and down excited when he does something . Yup I get all excited and beak / head scratch.

Let me ask you and do not take this wrong but, if you don't use the clicker because you might not have one .......... Will you always have a treat ?

I obedience trained both of my dogs with treats and effectively phased in the praise and phased out the food when the time came. But, nothing makes them work harder than food rewards when learning something new - it gives them the motivation to figure out what it is that you want them to do. I assume it's the same with parrots. Once the behavior is consistent, you can phase out the treat and give verbal praise (or head scratches as the case may be) because they don't have to work so hard for it any more, they already know what you want when you give the command.

Hahahahahaha! Yes, ekkies do take their time chewing a morsel. What I do is use small nut pieces and do most training while they're at their hungriest (between meals). It's made all the difference in the world.

And for what it's worth, it's the association between the click and the appearance of the treat that is important. Not necessarily when they eat it. So perhaps you should wait longer between offering one treat and the next.

Personally though, I forged the association between clicker, treat and appropriate action all at the sane time. Basically, I pointed the training stick at a point near Bixby, and when he went to nibble on it I clicked just before he reached it and presented the treat. Within a few minutes he made the association between following the stick, hearing the clicker, and getting the treat.

Before long, he'd get excited just for seeing the clicker or stick in my hand.

Full disclosure, though. I eventually quit with the clicker for one of the reasons you cited, Chris. Sometimes the clicker would be in my pocket when he did something right, or I'd forget it in another room, or it would be upside down when I went to click it. Lol! And anyone who knows about clicker training knows that a late click is worse than no click at all.

But my voice, on the other hand, is always with me. And so was my finger (I also abandoned the pointer). The association between praise and treats has served me just as well, and Jolly and Maya both (and Bixby and Suzie before them) understand that the direction indicated by my finger is where I want them to go. You know?

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TexasWade said:

Just an idea from a bird-newbie but, what if you offer him treats first and then when he's ready and actually TAKES the treat give a click as he touches it? I don't know if that would be psychologically wrong or not, but seems like he may associate treat with clicker faster that way...

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the psychology doesn't work that way. The treat after clicking reinforces this new sound is a good thing.

Reversing it will result in the bird learning whether or not to accept a treat. He learns that a new clicking sound will happen when he takes the treat. If he likes the sound, he will eat the treat. If he hates the sound that follows eating,, he will learn not to take the treat.

great thought experiment but no practical application.

Christinenc2000 said:

I don't use treats I really look like a goofy Red head jumping up and down excited when he does something . Yup I get all excited and beak / head scratch.

Let me ask you and do not take this wrong but, if you don't use the clicker because you might not have one .......... Will you always have a treat ?

Click to expand...

Not at all, Christine Broadly speaking, as Dexmom indicates you can eventually phase out the treat. Even the clicker as execution approaches 100%. Right now, I'm trying to reinforce the he££ out of speech to get him to speak in front of people so I do in fact keep treats within arms length at most times when I think conditions are ripe for him to speak. I.e. When we're in another room and leave him alone. Talking = get a treat. What I need to do is wear a fanny pack or something with walnut bits.

Great minds, Stephen! It took me a while to figure out the verbal cue to use. I wanted a click of the tongue, but I tend to do that when I'm taking stuff off his beak. Can't have crossover!

Your method for teaching bixby is intriguing. But I wonder, was he able to separate the clicker and be able to use it for other behaviors or did you only ever use it for target training?

chris-md said:

...Your method for teaching bixby is intriguing. But I wonder, was he able to separate the clicker and be able to use it for other behaviors or did you only ever use it for target training?

Click to expand...

Yep, once he made the association it was all good. Once I clicked, he'd give that little tail flourish that showed he was proud. In a sense, the click became a pleasurable thing, a reward in and of itself.


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Anansi said:

...I pointed the training stick at a point near Bixby, and when he went to nibble on it I clicked just before he reached it and presented the treat. Within a few minutes he made the association between following the stick, hearing the clicker, and getting the treat...

Click to expand...

yup, my wife and I did the same thing. worked like a charm. I think your boy will really enjoy it Chris. I feel like it gives them a bit more confidence too. You'll notice a tail shake when he's pleased with himself.