Arthritis relief for old Zon?

[LoveMyConlan]

My vet recommended a supplement, Capsicum I believe, to help with inflammation and arthritis in my 50+ year old Zons feet.

She also has Liver disease and cataracts so bad she can barely see.

She was a rescue that was given to me a long while ago and while we've tried all natural diets, she refused to eat(the person who had her before fed her nothing but peanuts and dollar store seed). My vet and I decided that letting her eat her 'preferred' diet would be less stressful on her. She get regular check ups and we have an end game plan for her when she starts to decline.

She gets Prime supplement on her food daily, but my vet recommended adding the supplement above to help ease her painful feet.

Do any of the Zon owners or there know if this? Does it work? What else can I try?

She's blinder than a bat, and whole she'll let me scratch her head, she bites if you try to touch her. The vet originally had me try foot massages, but she stressed WAY to much. Now I occasionally have her stand in a warm water dish to 'soak' her feet.

 

[Anita1250]

That is the ingredient that makes peppers hot. Capsaicin is usually rubbed onto the area with the pain. It is believed to work somewhat like Ben Gay. It confuses the nerves to ignore the pain signals. I don't know about adding it to the diet, though. It shouldn't hurt her because most parrots love hot peppers anyway. Perhaps try sprinkling hot pepper seeds onto her food. They stick like crazy, and she won't be able to avoid ingesting them with her seed. Perhaps this will help her.

 

[Kiwibird]

Aw, poor old girl. I don't know of any further supplements beyond what the vet has recommended, but do make sure she has wider perches and platforms instead of normal sized perches and everything should be placed lower in the cage so she doesn't get hurt if she falls. My mom's aging DYH is starting to get some arthritis in one foot and my mom wraps her perches in polar fleece so they are soft for her. It also might now be a bad idea, under close supervision, to let her stand on a towel over a heating pad on days she doesn't want a foot soak. I wouldn't leave her unattended with a heating pad, but I bet that would feel good for her feetsies Hope you can help her feet feel a little better.

 

[SailBoat]

Well, lets see if we can provide Happy a more happy World.

Client Lead Avian Care: I can to a very limited point, understand your Vet's supporting your want to stay with the current and past Diet. That said, there are excellent and much healthier diets available today. I will suggested that a 'Client Lead Avian Care' approach will greatly shorten your Amazon's Life! Your Amazon, even with the issues you state, should be able to live a comfortable life with you for ten or more years. As 'Support Staff' /Care Givers of our Amazons, we fight for every additional hour with them. Having an 'End of Life Game Plan" is helpful, but should not limit you're driven efforts to lengthen your time together!

Claw Care: Even if you have, please take the time to read the I Love Amazons - ... Thread near the top of the Amazon Forum. Within that Huge Thread you will find a Segment that speaks to understanding the problems that All Parrots are faced with: Foot Problems, Getting to the Foot of the Problem or like Title. Within that Segment, you will find a discussion on perch size and types. The goal is to move a Parrot to larger diameter perches and using only those perches that have natural variation in shape and diameter along their length. The foot problems that your Amazon is facing are directly linked to far too many years on dowel like perches. Eliminate those perches!

Diet: Sunflower and Peanut based Diet will greatly shorten you Amazon's life. I have always fought for every additional hour with my senior Amazons and diet is one of the best tools available to maximize that time. There are excellent diets that are based on natural Seeds, Grains, Nuts, freeze-dried Fruits and Vegs that are common from the Region of Central and South America, common to RLA's diet. Many of those diets (packages) include small bits of Pellets and dry Pasta. Look for terms like Human Grade or like wholesome terms.

Yes, most will still have some level of Sunflower seed and Peanuts in them. But the vast amount of the volume will be other more healthy choices. At first you will be feeding a fair amount to the 'outside' birds, but with time, you will watch your RLA add others to her diet. As she expands her interests, begin to slowly reduce the Peanut offering and also Sunflower seed.

Fatty Liver Disease is a serious concern and I am very surprised that your Vet has not provide some medication and/or supplement to be provided and most importantly, items to eliminate from the diet!

Blindness: Please take the time to complete a detailed 'Web Search' using: Handicapped Birds and separately, Handicapped Parrots. Then also add: Limited Sight and separately Blind. to the above searches.

You will find excellent recommendation on working with Parrots with limited sight using: your voice to communicate that you are coming into the room, what you are doing, cage layout, perching in, on and around the cage.

Do Not Give Up in Any Way with Your Amazon! An End of Life Plan is only that a 'Back Ground' Plan! It is not, nor should it be allowed to sub-plant your Living As Long As Possible Plan with your Amazon!

I strongly recommend that you set-up a meeting with your Amazon's Vet and request changing your interaction to a 'Partnership' that is 'Avian Vet' Lead, approach to extending your 'Amazon's Life' by every hour that you can get!

Be very mindful of the 'Words You Use!' Your current choice in words are very possibly leading to a much short life with your Amazon!

 

[AmyMyBlueFront]

How about soaking her tootsies in warm water and Epsom Salts? I know it works for me after a long night of work





Jim

 

[SailBoat]

How about soaking her tootsies in warm water and Epsom Salts? I know it works for me after a long night of work
Jim

For some strange reason, my mind is flashing a 'Concern' Fasher about Espson Salts and warm water foot baths. I would research that for Parrot use and also what limitations there are for Human use. Something about the surface degassing comes to mind.

Anyone else having a clearer understanding of Epson Salts, please jump in here!

 

[Kiwibird]

How about soaking her tootsies in warm water and Epsom Salts? I know it works for me after a long night of work
Jim

For some strange reason, my mind is flashing a 'Concern' Fasher about Espson Salts and warm water foot baths. I would research that for Parrot use and also what limitations there are for Human use. Something about the surface degassing comes to mind.

Anyone else having a clearer understanding of Epson Salts, please just in here!

Epsom salts are magnesium, sulfur and oxygen (MgSO4). I know it is easily absorbed by human skin and that the magnesium is what causes the "relaxed" feeling after soaking in epsom salts. Would scaly parrot feet prevent or reduce absorption? Are either magnesium or sulfur even a concern to parrots? I'm not sure. Magnesium is important (in humans) in calcium uptake and metabolism within the body. It is also a metal, and knowing how sensitive parrots are to other trace metals that are important to our health as humans (like zinc), a high does of magnesium could well be toxic to a parrot. Sulfur is a basic component and present in large quantities in all know biological life, so I cannot imagine it being of high concern, but again, I'm not sure in birds. There is also the issue of the laxative properties of Epsom salts, should the parrot take a drink of the soaking water. A chronically ill, blind, severely arthritic parrot would probably have a tough time dealing with that side effect. I'd definitely check with a vet first.

 

[LoveMyConlan]

We just did basic warm water for her foot soaks.

She had 1 perch when she came to me, and that's all she ever had. Now she has many sizes and types. She has a hard time flat foot and trips.

As for her eye issue, I do use words and shadows with her. Saying things like 'door' when I open the door, 'scritch, scritch' which she knows if she leans forward I'll give her a good head and neck scratch, 'water/food' when I reach fire her bowls, and things like step up when I ask for it. She's learned words great! But she isn't a fan of touch at all unless it's on her head/neck. Usually when we give her her warm bath each week I wrap my arm on a towel and after a snap or two she steps up on her own.

We attempted for months to try to change her diet. Even going as far as only offering some peanuts, but lots of fresh fruits, grains, and veg... But she literally would not eat. She got to the point she was lethargic and needed fluids.

My vets biggest worry was that she would starve herself, and she already was small, and could go down hill and need tube fed with IV fluids to keep her going. It was terrifying!

When she came to me she reeked of cigarette smoke, had a beak with major keratin growth, a nostril clogged, and URI, and yeast.

It was a battle. But she pulled through all that. My vets biggest concern was causing her more stress and leading to a serious issue.

She loves to sing and sit on the sun, and get her bathes, and climb around her cage and hang upside down. So regardless of what my vet and others originally told me, which was that she may be a lost cause, I've tried.

As far as meds for the liver disease, the stress having to towel her caused, combined with her making it impossible to change her diet, he said it was a slim chance they would work on her the way they should.

I'm open to any ideas though! Any help is appreciated!!

 

[SailBoat]

Changing diet is a process of working from totally one offering and with time transitioning to the new offering.

I was informed by our Amazon's favorite person that his 'food' shipment has shipped and will be here in a couple of days. Once it is here, I will provide the brand name and the process that we have used to convert Amazons to a much wider food offering.

I will update this Thread, once I have everything in front of me.

Enjoy!

 

[SailBoat]

The goal in transitioning a Parrot from a very limited diet to a much larger selection requires time. By starting with a broad base of different seeds, grains, nuts, dried fruits, small pellets, etc... several things happen.

At first, you Amazon will forage thru the offering selecting out the favorite treasures and avoiding all others. However, in that process, errors will occur and other 'food' sources will be ingested. This will be acceptable to your Amazon since it will have a like 'feel' and 'taste.' Within a few weeks you will note that there will be signs that other 'offerings' are being consumed.

The error that most everyone makes is the mass, instant conversion to another food source and the Parrot freaks-out and refuses to eat. The process we like is provide a huge mix that clearly includes the treasured items and a bunch of other stuff.

When we transition an Amazon, we use Scarlett MardiGras supplied and processed by: Moyer & Sons, Inc. in Sounderton PA. It can be purchased thru Amazon Marketplace. The cost is the same either way.

Is it the best stuff on the Market: No! But the goal is to introduce and transfer the Amazon on to a much wider offering!

You will quickly see some items that your Amazon has zero interest and we pull those items. Commonly they are larger and the Amazon clearly sees them as not acceptable! We have provided those items to a Wild Life Rehap Group and also a Parrot Rehomer.

Do you have to use this specific mix? No, but you want something that has a very wide base of Seeds, Grains, Nuts, etc...

 

[LoveMyConlan]

Thank you SailBoat! Do you use the Parrot Large Hookbill or another size? I'd have no issues ordering a bag from Amazon fire her!

We've tried Abba, Zupreem, Tropical Carnival... She just picked out the nuts. I even went so far as to buy the Nut flavor Zupreem pellets. Nothing lol.

A friend is mine believes in all things natural for food. They get a pellet but 95% of their diet is fresh chop that she makes in different sizes fire her birds.

We tried a few of the variations of hers on Happy... No go.

We've buried her favorite things at the bottom of a small pile, thinking maybe during her dig she'll find something good... Nope. Heck I've even shoved a piece or two in her mouth... Nothing.

She's all about CRUNCH. You open a bag of chips? She's coming over. She loves her Gold Fish crackers too.

I even thought I'd fake her out by buying freeze dried veggies and fruit so she felt the crunch. Again. No go.

And that all was the issue. I consulted with another vet who basically wanted me to syringe feed her baby formula and organic baby food until she got back to normal. I bulked at that.

But I'll order a bag of that Scarlet and maybe see if that will intise her

 

[SailBoat]

Pick-out those larger items that she has a history of not eating and provide those items to others. What you will find is lots of smalls that have caught the interest of our older Amazons over the years.

Hope that is works for you as well as it has for us.

 

[Kentuckienne]

Here’s a link to an online veterinary manual. There is a section on arthritis in the geriatric heading for pet birds. You may have to expand the link to see the information.

Geriatric Diseases of Pet Birds - Exotic and Laboratory Animals - Merck Veterinary Manual

I notice lots of reference sites, people like Merck et.al., recommend Meloxicam to great arthritis. As a former arthritis sufferer, that drug didn’t help me at all. It was recommend because the best drug, Celebrex, was not generic and was very expensive, plus there was some concern about heart safety and Cox-2 inhibitors. Celebrex has since been shown to be safer than any other NSAID including Advil and Aleve.

If cost is a factor, generic Celebrex is cheap now. Places like Costco offer discount drug plans for members who didn’t have prescription insurance, and they automatically consider pets to be eligible for the discounts. Other pharmacies may have similar discounts. In fact, you don’t have to be a member to use the Costco pharmacy - at least where I live, they are required to serve everyone. You just don’t get the biggest discounts, but the drug prices are far cheaper than at a typical drug store.

 

[Kiwibird]

So she is blind to the point she could not see you eating something in front of her? Does she ever get excited about crinkling wrappers, fridge door opening, oven timer going off or other "food related" noise (or is that just my bird who knows what sounds=food)? If so, you could simulate that sound to catch her interest and offer her some of the "beginner" fruits that are generally pretty universally liked such as apple, grape, banana and orange. Have you ever tried baby food or applesauce, something of that consistency? And remember, even if she flat rejects something for months, she may eventually try it if it appears in her dish every day without fail! Even if she doesn't eat it, I'd still offer at least one slice of sweet fruit in every dish of food, positioned where she tends to stick her beak in first so she is most likely to have to have some contact, even if to fling it she'll get the sweet flavor in her mouth. Most animals have an instinctual taste for sugar because the brain knows it's easy energy so getting her to fling fruit to get the sweet flavor may actually open the door to her later ingesting some

 

[mh434]

I had a lilac-crowned Amazon with arthritis, cataracts, gout, etc. Toward the end, we had him on Metacam, which helped a lot. In the end, though, all his systems shut down and nothing further could be done. His feet were so arthritic that one was clenched in a permanent fist, and the other was fixed in a wide-open position. For a while, an electric heated perch helped ease his discomfort, but eventually he couldn't even perch at all. I made a soft, donut-shaped cushion for him to lie on, so there was no pressure on his keel. He loved that cushion...

All we can do is keep them as comfortable and pain-free as possible, and let them know we're there & loving them.

 

[Notdumasilook]

To help with liver function Id recommend adding milk thistle extract to his water. For pain I would go for Celebrex. A compounding pharmacy can whip you up a batch...suspended in almond oil and maybe add flavoring the bird wont reject. I have used this med for extended time on a parrot with no ill effects...and seems less dangerous than metacam. Of course peanuts have too much fat and some other stuff that causes problems. Try getting some almond butter and smear a dab on his beak..see if he licks it off. If so, then you can slip some supplements in lil almond butter sandwiches. Try the same thing with mashed sweet potato.. that is birdie superfood. Due to blindness... so he can smell what it is, add a dash of cinnamon. Worth a try.