Breeder's conflicting advice

[Boki]

I am the proud owner of a 6 month rosefront conure. I have had it in my house for 4 days. I expected her to be nervous to a new home. I guess I didn't expect her to be so nervous at night before I put the cover on the cage. I think tonight I will move her from her large day cage to her smaller sleeping cage. I hope that will help.

The breeder told me to hold her next to my chest each day for a week. The breeder said it will show her who is boss and by the end of the week, she will enjoy it. Well, for the 1st three days, it has been a vicious biting battle. She does calm down when I hold her next to my chest and give her scritches but the cage battle stays rather violent. One time I let her go the bottom of the cage (wings are clipped) and basically tired her out so she had no choice to let me hold her.

Before I acquired this rosefront, I did a lot of research. I really like that this species may the quietest of all the conures. She only has squawked to match the microwave beeping. Maybe a tiny squawk when I reach into the cage to hold her. But otherwise, total silence.

Before the breeder told me this, I thought I was supposed to entice the new conure to come to me via treats and patience. Maybe because this conure is so young, I am supposed to do it this way. Any thoughts?

 

[ParrotGenie]

I am the proud owner of a 6 month rosefront conure. I have had it in my house for 4 days. I expected her to be nervous to a new home. I guess I didn't expect her to be so nervous at night before I put the cover on the cage. I think tonight I will move her from her large day cage to her smaller sleeping cage. I hope that will help.

The breeder told me to hold her next to my chest each day for a week. The breeder said it will show her who is boss and by the end of the week, she will enjoy it. Well, for the 1st three days, it has been a vicious biting battle. She does calm down when I hold her next to my chest and give her scritches but the cage battle stays rather violent. One time I let her go the bottom of the cage (wings are clipped) and basically tired her out so she had no choice to let me hold her.

Before I acquired this rosefront, I did a lot of research. I really like that this species may the quietest of all the conures. She only has squawked to match the microwave beeping. Maybe a tiny squawk when I reach into the cage to hold her. But otherwise, total silence.

Before the breeder told me this, I thought I was supposed to entice the new conure to come to me via treats and patience. Maybe because this conure is so young, I am supposed to do it this way. Any thoughts?

NO NO NO that not how it works, shame on that breeder for telling you that. By forcing her which we trainers refer to as the "grabbing method", you actually doing the complete opposite and you will be in her eyes a predator, bird may after a while not put up a fight, but may not bond to you, or will take much longer to. We use this method for extreme cases as deal with a lot of rescues that have several behavior issues for various reasons and even then that not how its done. We use a towel so bird see the towel and not the hand. Not recommend for most cases. Always prefer positive reinforcement methods when possible.

You have to leave her in her new cage for a couple of days without bothering her and then next day open the cage door and let her explore on her own. Put her in a smaller room where she won't get into to much trouble. Then slowly try to approach her and if she start getting scared back away and try again later. Let her get use to you being around, don't stare directly at her do regular routine around her, or sit nearby cage and read a book, or phone. Once you get to the point of being right by her, then try to offer a treat like spray millet and let her take it out of your hand. Then once she does try to get her to step up on your hand. If that doesn't work try to get her to step up on a long stick, or perch and then gradually get her to step up on your hand. As far as bonding that take time and could be months with some birds, you have to earn their trust.

 

[itzjbean]

Do not listen to this breeder, maybe it works for puppies and kittens but NOT birds!

The way through to birds and gaining their trust is, as you guessed, through treats, patience and understanding of space. Now that you've basically held her against her will she may have some trust or hand issues now with the rough handling. She should be allowed to choose if she wants to be held or pet, and it's a process that takes time and lots of bribes in treat form.

I would suggest to simply start over with her -- no more forcing her onto your chest, okay? Let her choose where she wants to go, and show her that you can be trusted because you won't grab her anymore nor force her to do things she doesn't want to do. Don't grab at her anymore....training for the both of you begins now!

Give this a read -- Tips for Bonding and Building Trust

Note how it doesn't say to force your new bird to let you hold it against your chest anywhere. Forget that, it is really bad advice.

 

[Boki]

ParrotGenie, thank you for your comment. I have sort of did all that including reading out loud to her. I am not going to pursuit the showing who is boss approach anymore. I will say this - she has been trying to slide through the cage bars but gets stuck thankfully. Thankfully. she is just a tad too big for the bar spacing. So I do think if I open the cage, she will leave it. But her wings are clipped and she could not get back in the day cage by herself. Now I am doing the whole holding thing all over again to get her back in the cage which I now understand should be avoided. If one lets the bird out, how is one to get it back in?

On a similar note, I really wanted her to be put in a small sleeping cage. It is very clear she is afraid when the sun goes down. Putting the cover over the day cage helped and I think I will put it over before the sunset. I guess I got to wait for that trust to put her in a sleeping cage?

 

[ParrotGenie]

ParrotGenie, thank you for your comment. I have sort of did all that including reading out loud to her. I am not going to pursuit the showing who is boss approach anymore. I will say this - she has been trying to slide through the cage bars but gets stuck thankfully. Thankfully. she is just a tad too big for the bar spacing. So I do think if I open the cage, she will leave it. But her wings are clipped and she could not get back in the day cage by herself. Now I am doing the whole holding thing all over again to get her back in the cage which I now understand should be avoided. If one lets the bird out, how is one to get it back in?

On a similar note, I really wanted her to be put in a small sleeping cage. It is very clear she is afraid when the sun goes down. Putting the cover over the day cage helped and I think I will put it over before the sunset. I guess I got to wait for that trust to put her in a sleeping cage?

If it possible you can try to put the smaller sleeping cage in front of the larger cage with doors open kissing pretty much if doors line up and put a treat in sleeping cage so she goes in. Being she clipped you can take advantage and she needs you to go where she wants. Birds hate being on the floor, when she on the floor away from cage, you can try to go closer to the point where she let you get close enough where you can try to get her to step up on your finger and start step up training.

 

[YSGC]

... she has been trying to slide through the cage bars but gets stuck thankfully. Thankfully, she is just a tad too big for the bar spacing. ...

This concerns me.
Bar spacing is a major safety issue.
Birds should not be able to fit their head between the bars.
If they can the bars are too far apart.
Birds have been known to inadvertently hang themselves by getting their skulls stuck between bars.

If this is the case please replace that cage with one with bars that are closer together.

 

[ParrotGenie]

... she has been trying to slide through the cage bars but gets stuck thankfully. Thankfully, she is just a tad too big for the bar spacing. ...

This concerns me.
Bar spacing is a major safety issue.
Birds should not be able to get their head between the bars.
If they can the bars are too far apart.
Birds have been known to inadvertently hang themselves by getting their skulls stuck between bars.

If this is the case please replace that cage with one with bars that are closer together.

Cage spacing sure be around 1/2 preferred, or no bigger then 5/8 If she getting her head stuck that cage need to be replaced right away, as they can get stuck and injured, or kill themselves.

 

[EllenD]

You've only had her for 4 days!!! Earning a new bird's trust, even a hand-raised baby, can take months and months or longer, it all depends on the bird. And now since that breeder gave you the worst advice ever, it's probably going to take a lot longer. No bird likes to be "grabbed" around the body, not even ones who are closely-bonded with you. So no more "grabbing" at the bird at all.

Does she step-up for you at all? Will she step-up onto anything? I don't know if she was hand-raised by this "breeder" or not, but usually they will step-up onto a dowel-rod or some type of branch/stick if you slowly approach them with it, especially if their wings are clipped. You might try that to get her in and out of her cage, as she does need lots of out-of-cage-time each day. I would spend ample time sitting next to her cage while reading to her, talking to her, and trying to get her to accept treats through the bars...

And the bar-spacing is too large if she can actually fit her body in-between them at all so that she get's "stuck"...She could really hurt herself or worse in a cage where she can do that...You need to get a cage with smaller bar spacing, but not a smaller cage all the way around...I've seen birds get their heads stuck in-between cage bars and break their necks trying to get out of them...

 

[Boki]

EllenD, all night was beating myself about following this bad advice. So I am taking it extra slowly. When I first met her with the breeder, she did step up on my finger and stayed there.

Today, I decided to to open the cage door and let her decide if she is interested in coming out or not. I have tried treats through the cage and she wants nothing to do with it. But this morning, I gave her a different breakfast. Until today, I was continuing to feed her what the breeder gave me. Today I switched it to a cockatiel mix and she has been at the food bowl all morning and looking very content. She has no interest in the open door.

I really hate giving up this cage as it really is a top of the line model. I was thinking of trying to put a high quality screen over it. I was thinking if I ever saw it chew it in the slightest bit, I would abandon that idea. I really can't can come close to getting a cage off the same size as I got such a great deal on it. If I do switch to smaller spacing, there is no getting around it being a downsize. But it only has been 4 days in this new home.

Should I even attempt this screen cover idea?

 

[Boki]

Scratch the screen cover idea. I think I am going with chicken wire and eliminate the risk of chewing.

 

[Sunnyclover]

I would get a solution for the cage bars asap because the idea of the cage bars being too wide is terrifying. It's like gambling with your bird getting stuck, suffocating itself, choking to death or worse by the minute.
Also, this breeder's advise was just awful and I'm glad you posted on the forums to ask about it. Good job. She'll come around sooner or later but remember she did get scared half to death by you for several days in a row so you're starting from a not great place as far as she's concerned. Give her time!

 

[Boki]

I am on the right path. For the first time in 4 days, she took treats from my hand but it was through the "safe" cage. I tried to do this each previous day and she ran away from me even when she is on the other side of the cage. I still have a long way to go but at least I am going in the right direction.

 

[ParrotGenie]

Scratch the screen cover idea. I think I am going with chicken wire and eliminate the risk of chewing.

I won't do that as galvanized wires: Galvanized means iron / steel is coated with zinc, which is highly toxic to parrots. Parrots can chew though that.

If you have to get Stainless Steal mesh/chicken wire. I would just get a different cage and sell, or trade the old one.

 

[Boki]

Thank you all for your support. I did worry a lot about the head being stuck as she seemed to get it slightly stuck several times right in front of me but got out. I thought it was a matter of time before she hung herself. Not a problem anymore. And it is a great cage with plenty of room for perches, toys, etc. More importantly, she is now safe.

Now to take that long road to get her trust. Baby steps... She took treats from my hand through the cage several times today.

 

[YSGC]

... I did worry a lot about the head being stuck as she seemed to get it slightly stuck several times right in front of me but got out.
I thought it was a matter of time before she hung herself.
Not a problem anymore.
And it is a great cage with plenty of room for perches, toys, etc. More importantly, she is now safe.

You state, "Not a problem anymore, and she is now safe."
But how can you say that if she's still in the same cage in which, as you write, she got her head stuck several times right in front of you?

Several posters have told you that cage is not safe for that bird.
Again, please get a cage that is safe for your bird.

If that is not possible, please contact an appropriate bird rescue agency to re-home your bird ... just don't give that cage with the bird.
Sell the cage after the bird is safely away from it.
You may be saving your bird's life.

Sorry if I sound rude.
I'm just looking out for a bird that is very much at risk.

 

[YSGC]

. Today I switched it to a cockatiel mix and she has been at the food bowl all morning and looking very content.

I do hope that "cockatiel mix" is not all seed.
Seeds are like cheesecake.
Birds love seed, but it's not a healthy diet.
Birds need a diet of manufactured pellets and plenty of fresh fruit and vegetables.

I really hate giving up this cage as it really is a top of the line model.

Your "top of the line model" cage may kill your bird by hanging because the bars are too far apart.
It may be top of the line for a larger bird, but it's a death trap for yours.

Where are your priorities?

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Hi Boki! Glad you're part of the forum family

We've some members who are in HI as well, so they might be able to step in to help you find a replacement for your dangerous cage. I'm sure there's another bigger bird out there who's looking to buy up your cage for their new home too!

As for food, stores always look to make money cheaply. Seeds are actually quite fatty for parrots - they can develop fatty liver disease if fed primarily seeds. I know some members but pellets, but if you're looking to whip up something quick for your little one to eat - you could always give them fresh fruits and veggies (that's actually the healthiest for them!)

It sounds like you're on the right track, taking things slowly again. It might take months, but it'll be worth giving the space and time to build up trust. Looking forward to hearing more of your journey!

 

[EllenD]

Boki, what did you do to his cage to "fix" the bar-spacing issue?

As ParrotGenie and others mentioned, you CANNOT PUT CHICKENWIRE OR OTHER METAL MESH OVER/AROUND THE CAGE UNLESS IT IS STAINLESS-STEEL!!! ANY OTHER TYPE OF METAL CHICKEN-WIRE OR MESH WILL KILL YOUR BIRD IF HE CHEWS ON IT AT ALL!!1

Birds are extremely sensitive to ALL heavy-metals, including Nickel, Iron, Lead, anything that is "Galvonized", Zinc, etc. All of these will kill your bird if he chews on them, as it only takes a couple tiny, itty-bitty little specs in his GI Tract to poison him...And trust me when I say that the treatment for a bird with Heavy-Metal Poisoning will cost you a hell of a lot more at the Avian Vet than a new cage the same size will!!! They have to do something called "Chelation", which means they give your bird a substance orally that will bind the metal inside/throughout his GI Tract and carry it out of his body in his feces while keeping it from being absorbed into his bloodstream while on it's trip through his GI Tract...And they have to do many, many x-rays throughout the treatment to track where the metal flakes/specs are and to make sure the Chelation-Therapy is working, and you have to keep taking him back in to the Avian Vet every single day for a good month at least, every day giving him more of the Chelation solution and taking another x-ray...We're talking thousands of dollars to save your bird's life, or you simply have to euthanize him if you can't afford to do it, because dying from heavy-metal poisoning is terribly painful, and agonizingly long...

So if you went out and bought any type of chicken-wire, hardware-cloth, or metal mesh and wrapped it around your bird's cage bars, and it was made of ANY TYPE OF METAL OTHER THAN STAINLESS-STEEL, OR IT SAYS ON THE PACKAGE THAT IT'S "GALVONIZED", YOU MUST REMOVE IT IMMEDIATELY!!!

You suddenly just "fixed" the problem, and that's scary...You just suddenly posted "It's not a problem anymore!" after you said you were going to go out and buy "chicken-wire", and I have a bad feeling that's exactly what you did because you posted about doing it before anyone was able to tell you that chicken-wire is lethal to parrots unless is stainless-steel, and I myself have not seen any chicken-wire that was stainless-steel unless it was ordered online as a specialty product (and would be a lot more expensive at that, as all stainless-steel products usually are)...

So please don't just ignore us on this and keep your bird's cage wrapped in chicken-wire, hardware-cloth, or metal mesh that you know is not made of stainless steel, because that will end badly for you, unless you have thousands of dollars to pay an Avian Vet to treat Heavy-Metal Poisoning...And I don't think you do have that kind of money, because if you did you would have just purchased a new cage for your bird with appropriate bar-spacing...

The best thing I can tell you to do is to go onto Amazon.com and find an appropriately sized cage on there and just bite the bullet and buy it, yes it still needs to be the same overall-size, you cannot go smaller, but Amazon.com has fantastic deals on cages with free-shipping, which is HUGE when ordering a cage...eBay is another option as well...OR the other option that is probably the cheapest is to go onto your local Craigslist, as you can usually find tons of pre-owned/used parrot cages that are huge for very little money...People who no longer have a parrot but still have the huge cage usually just want to get rid of them because they're taking-up space in their garage or basement, so you can usually get the very best deals on Craigslist, even when you live in Hawaii (lots of pet parrots)...And then AFTER you get him into a new cage with the correct bar-spacing for him, then you can put the other cage onto Craigslist for sale and probably quickly recoup most of your money...You don't really have a choice here Boki, as the situation that you have with your Conure's cage is very dangerous and potentially fatal,
now for 2 different reasons, and the heavy-metal poisoning happens quite quickly and once it happens it's done Boki, you can't do anything at all about it once he gets even a couple of little specs into his crop, that's it, you'll either have to pay thousands of dollars to save his life, or you'll have to pay to euthanize him...and though this is very morbid I'm trying to put this into perspective for you, and I have to say it Boki, you can probably find a pre-owned/used very large cage with appropriate bar-spacing for him on your local Craigslist for the same price that it costs to have him Euthanized...just being a realist Boki, because I don't want to see your bird get sick with heavy-metal poisoning and then you'll be out thousands of dollars to treat him, nor do I want to see him break his neck in-between the bars!

Unfortunately you took-on the responsibility of bringing a parrot into your home and your family, and that means you are responsible for his health and well-being. And unfortunately you made a bad choice when you chose a cage for him...and it's not just that the cage is "a bit too small" or something like that, it's literally life-threatening to keep him in it...And the "quick-fix" you just made a snap-decision about running out and doing is unfortunately just as life-threatening...So you need to take responsibility for him and get him a new cage...and that doesn't mean a "new" cage, like I said, jump onto your local Craigslist and see what's out there, because I usually see dozens of used, large bird cages on Craigslist every time I look, and they're cheap!!! And you'll still be able to sell the other cage after you get him a new one that is safe and the correct size for him...You can't just forget about this one and leave that chicken-wire or whatever you put around the cage there...He very likely could have ALREADY chewed on it and ingested some of it...