Budgie is lethargic and seems to be unbalanced or in pain when moving, but he eats very well and preens

OP
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Thank you very much. Truthfully there isn't much anyone can do except the vet, and he's been great before with my other budgies, and Napoleon has a little strength and plenty of appetite, so I'm hopeful. Thank you very much for the well wishes
 

LaManuka

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Thank you very much. Truthfully there isn't much anyone can do except the vet, and he's been great before with my other budgies, and Napoleon has a little strength and plenty of appetite, so I'm hopeful. Thank you very much for the well wishes
You're more than welcome! Budgies really are surprisingly tough little critters in many ways and having an appetite is always a positive. Sending plenty of positive, healthy vibes Napoleon's way!
 

Kitekeeper

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I've been thinking his beak looks way too long.
Yes, it does, not that much long to observe right away, but yes it is a bit long. I would add the color of the beak is also a bit too orangish, which should be more like sand/pale yellow.

In my little experience with such situation, those may be symptoms of an overcharged liver , which could indeed be the case for a bird that is eating so much and heavily in seeds and or oil rich food. In the past I have put birds with similar symptoms in a 80% pellets, 20% seeds diet and it worked really well. The beak is always renewing itself and after a couple of weeks you can see the colour changing from the nose toward the tip.

I think one important behaviour Napoleon is having is eating so much. I know showing appetite is crucial to get better, but showing a huge appetite (and not gaining weight) maybe the consequence of not having enough food for himself. Have you considered Napoleon might have worms?

Some microorganisms as coccids can prevent the bird to receive nutrients from food as they act in the intestine mucosa, but in that case Napoleon would be mostly sleepy and with little to zero appetite. Worms in the other hand are just intercepting his food from the main food rich blood body source, the intestine mucosa blood.

So, what might have started with a case of weakness from not gaining enough food might be turning into weakness with an overcharged liver. Sinusitis in the other hand would most likely produce mucus near the nostrils area, easy to see as the feathers in the forehead would remain moist all the time.

If you did not notice the long beak tip in the beginning it is probably because it was not there to be seen.

If it is a case of worms, Baytril would not have an effect. You would need another medicin, but I guess your vet could easily detect that in the feces.

Hoping for a full recovery and as LaManuka said, you are doing a terrific job! Napoleon too, he is a fighter!
 
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OP
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Thank you to everyone!

I'd thought about worms too for the same reasons. Hopefully like you said the fecal exam should let me know if that's the case.

Napoleon does eat quite a bit, but I wouldn't say it's mostly seeds. It's mostly Roudybush pellets with some Zupreem seeds, but I'll take a look at how I've been mixing the two in case. The orange beak also didn't necessarily seem like a negative sign, at least, I've seen other budgies, particularly the dominant and recessive pieds, with the same orange color. It is something to keep in mind, though, and I'll be sure to talk about it with the vet.
 

Kitekeeper

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The orange beak also didn't necessarily seem like a negative sign, at least, I've seen other budgies, particularly the dominant and recessive pieds, with the same orange color.
You are absolutely right, my bad. I completely forgot Napoleon is a pied budgie! 😬 :(
 
OP
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Update: I called the vet this morning and he returned my call just now. The vet says the gram stain came back normal. Because Napoleon didn't get a full dose on Thursday, when I tried to give him the Baytril on a piece of millet instead of directly in the beak, the vet says it can take a little longer to improve. The vet says to continue the medication until the end of the week and see if Napoleon improves by then.
 
OP
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I spoke to the vet again today. Napoleon is mostly the same, not worse, but not better. He occasionally seems a bit more energetic. For example, Saturday he briefly was singing to one of the female budgies, and yesterday he managed to scratch his head with his leg a couple times, something he couldn't do previous days. But these are brief moments and he's still sleeping most of the day and loses his balance easily. I've explained this and more to the vet. I asked whether given the lack of improvement a different medicine would be better, or whether we should do additional tests, or if the Baytril needs more time to show effects. He said antibiotics typically last 10 to 14 days and they typically have birds on the antibiotics for that long. The vet would like me to continue the Baytril until next week. Tomorrow makes one week of giving the Baytril. Should Napoleon have shown more improvement by now?

EDIT: I asked my vet about twice regarding probiotics, and this is why. The vet said it was okay to give probiotics with the antibiotics, just give it 2 hours separating the one from the other. But I recently was looking at the website where I bought the probiotic (http://www.avi-culture-2.com/use.html), and it specifically says, "Do not use in conjunction with a regimen of antibiotics as this probiotic will weaken the medication as it instead kills the multitude of beneficial bacterium in this probiotic and it will not be as effective in wiping out the pathogenic bacteria it was prescribed for in the first place." I genuinely did not remember this last week when we started giving Napoleon the antibiotic. I kept giving the probiotic because of how common yeast infections could be with Baytril, but now I'm wondering if this is partially why the antibiotic is taking longer to be effective. The vet still says it's fine, but I've stopped the probiotic until we finish the antibiotic.
 
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Laurasea

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All I can say is I am not a fan of baytril, neither is my certified avian vet .
Chlamydia is a common infection ( not saying this is what yours has) and baytril is not effective against it. So if a vet wants to give antibiotics and isn't sure if tge infection. Why not give doxycline? As doxycline treats a common problem that it could possibly be. ...

Probioitics...seems like advice is always Changing. Personally I give tge Greek yogurt to mine. I eat Greek yogurt when on antibiotics, and usually half way through
My gastro doctor has me start taking probiotic .

Sometimes antibiotics have to be changed. Sometimes it because this isn't bacterial but instead yeast/fungal/ or viral.


Again not saying this is what yours has just provided I go since I talked about.

Common issues

Also chronic zinc toxicity is a possibility, scroll down this article to find the info on zinc

This article. Might be better on chronic zinc ( not saying yours has this , but its good to ne informed, and other readers might have these isdues) when they say neurological that can mean stumble, uncoordinated, balance issues, or other odd behavior.

Unfortunately most health issues , all have the same symptoms...makes it hard to figure out when they can't tell us how they feel. Even in human medicine when we can tell the doctor some health issues are difficult to diagnose

I hope your baby recovers
 
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Thank you very much for your advice. The articles are great! That makes sense, and there is a lot of information online about problems with Baytril. That's why I asked my vet about a different medication, but he thinks it's best to continue with Baytril for now. I'll see what my vet says when I give him the next scheduled update on Napoleon.
 
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OP
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Just had a bit of a scare. Napoleon has been slightly better today and yesterday. While still unbalanced, he loses balance less often while preening, he's sleeping less and more alert when he's awake. I don't want to give him too little and risk him backsliding, but I also don't want to give him too much. So on that front, things seem well.

But I'm concerned I may have made a mistake with the dosage. Today when I went to prepare the dropper to give Napoleon the Baytril, the dropper was empty. I'm very concerned because I'm not sure if I have or have not given Napoleon the full amount. On Thursday Oct. 16, I put a drop of Baytril on a piece of millet to see if it would be possible to give the medicine to Napoleon without having to restrain him and put it directly in the beak. So I know that Napoleon could NOT have taken all of the Baytril. However, I was sure I should have more than I did, at least enough for the weekend. The clinic I usually go to is closed until Monday now, so in the meantime I've called the clinic which first treated Napoleon. I explained the situation on the phone, and the secretary offered to ask the vet working today his advice. The vet working today does not treat birds, but since he was only the vet I could get in contact with, I asked the secretary to please explain the situation to him.

The vet working today said that giving the medicine for the correct number of days is more important than the exact dosage amount, and since we started administering the medicine in the beak Friday Oct. 17, the clinic is giving a refill for enough Baytril until Wednesday, as that would make the 10 days total. When I was initially given the Baytril, I was told the dropper had a little more than 10 days' worth in case I made a mistake. I would greatly appreciate any and all advice. I've already emailed my usual vet clinic explaining the situation, but I don't think I could in contact with any avian vet on this short notice on a weekend.

EDIT: Just got back from the clinic. They gave me the doses in individual droppers, one per day.
 
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OP
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Oct 11, 2021
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Update on Napoleon: He was doing very badly Sunday and Monday two weeks ago when I last posted, unable to perch, etc. I managed to get an emergency visit at my usual vet, who decided to try a two injections of doxycycline, one last week and a second this week, and metacam administered for ten days. Napoleon was doing really well after that! It was nothing like the slight improvement with baytril. He was still unbalanced, as the vet said Napoleon wasn't out of the woods yet, but he was active, he wasn't sleeping all day anymore, and he was chirping so much!

Unfortunately, early today, I heard a loud noise from the cage. He was still with my other budgies, as the vet said not to separate them unless the others were bullying him. When I went to check on them, everyone seemed fine. I even picked up Napoleon and looked him over, but I didn't notice anything at that time.

But when I later got a better look at him, he seemed to have a cut on his leg. I suspect one of my female budgies, who's been laying eggs (which I've replaced with dummy eggs) might have bit him. I both emailed and called my vet, but the secretary said the vet who treated Napoleon wouldn't come to the office until Thursday. For the moment, I've separated him in a small hospital cage.

Should I do thing else to make him feel comfortable? He's currently sitting in the hospital cage, but he seems uneasy and scared, and hasn't eaten. Is there anything I can do to help him until Thursday's vet visit?


Screenshot_20211102-162147_Gallery.jpg
 
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