Conure saw Vet not sure what to do now-need advice

Chrissy5

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Apr 14, 2020
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Hi Everyone,
I have a female pineapple conure who will be 3 in August. We got her when we was 4 months old after loosing our cockatiel. We did just move in the first week of March. I did read that moving can cause lots of stress. My husband and I were suprised thinking she took really well to it. I'm on disability so I'm home with her 24/7 and before the pandemic I was only able to get out 2 days a week if that.
I've always been right so far when she's been sick. After moving we got her nails cut and 2 weeks later was acting sick. She was still eating/drinking but not vocal, fluffed up, even out with us, no interest in toys, and lethargic. We would joke because she maybe sleeps 8 hours a night and we give her 10-12 covered always but she never even would nap during the day. I took her to a new vet where we live, highly recommended, and they did nose cultures for all the sneezing, but vet noticed nothing off. We paid a pretty penny for all of that and a nose flush so they could send it to the lab and see if she had something fungal or bacteria. While waiting we did 14 days of oral antibiotics per the vet, and 14 days of nose drops. It now been maybe 2 weeks later. I did call the vet after as told, and she was better she was vocal, sneezing was better, not as lethargic but I did voice to her that she is itching and itching like never before. She takes a bath everyday and we have a humidifier running 24/7 across the room which says by her cage she is at 50% humidity which the vet says was good. We already from our old vet gave her a probiotic sprinkle supplement to keep the immune up, the new vet also had us add another one, vitamin A sprinkled on food all in the am.
When I told the vet about the itching she said def no mites, we have no other animals etc, but said she may need more fatty acid so we got another supplement per the vet so now we also sprinkle that one on her food too every morning. The itching is a tad better. But I don't know what else to do. It was $400 to get all of this on disability. She's my best companion and I would do whatever I possibly could for her.
She is still not like before we moved. She is taking naps , from a bird who never ever took any ever, and she still isn't playing with toys and I rotate them every 3 days and clean her cage every 2 days with organic soap and that has not changed in 3 years. We never spray anything, no candles, all stainless steel pans no Teflon ever, etc. We both did notice from up north coming to more rural area with some farmlands both of our allergies aka eyes are driving us nuts. Her eyes are clean , no discharge, she's still sneezing but not like 5 min Everytime before. Oh and the lab results back from the vet showed she had nothing, no bacteria, no fungal, but believes she had something. My husband who thinks I worry too much even noticed , wow I think she's sick that's when I took her in as an emergency.
Any idea what's going on? Her diet is healthy I'm told, vet said she could be up all night itching aka why the naps but I'm using the new supplement and she loves her daily baths. I keep everything dusted and clean, so not sure why no interest in toys (she used to normally have a bit more interest), and after she wakes up like 8 am after breakfast by 9 she is on her "night night" perch sleeping on one foot.
This is our first conure and first time moving with her. Could she still be stressed after over a month? Is there something else I should be trying? If need be vet said we could do another 14 days of meds but I'm watching her to see if she needs that. I don't want to give her more meds if not needed so when she does need them next I didn't overload her. She has never laid eggs, we did all our old vet did to try to make sure nothing in the cage promoted that, she has a big cage too made for like 2 of them, all to herself. Sorry for the long story. Still taking naps, so I guess a bit lethargic especially after just waking up for the day. Any advice would be appreciated as I've done the vet and I'm just lost at this point. Thank you all
 

NewQuakerMom

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Apr 7, 2020
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Any possibility there's something in the air at your new house? New carpets, fresh paint, etc could mean chemicals in the air... How about an air purifier or something?
 
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Chrissy5

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Thank you new Quaker Mom. We rent still and our landlord bought it in December and did all the remodeling bin Jan and we moved in on 3-7. So def no smells or chemicals. We made sure as well that nothing new was done before us moving in. The landlord also used to own bigger parrots. I have heard of an air purifier, do you know by chance, is that something we can buy online for the room she is in? Or is that an expensive installation thing for when you own a place? I can def try that if it will work. I think this is the hormonal season right? I just had her out to engage her with toys, rings, colors, games with rewards of her favorite almonds and she was not interested, started niping as she can get so now shes back in her cage sitting on her perch but at least doing the beak noise contentment thing. But looks like she is about to fall asleep again. Do you have any recommendations on a safe air purifier? Thank you!
 

chris-md

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*anyone else think something seems fishy here?*

Is your vet a certified avian vet?

I'M NOT A VET and not privy to your consultations, but I'm very concerned about the rate of supplementation. Hypervitaminosis can be a problem, and one sign of Hypervitaminosis A (excessive vitamin A)in young children is excessive itching. CHildren aren't parrots, I know, but a quick look around really only talks about Vit. A deficiency, so that's about the only frame of reference I have.

Did your vet do bloodwork to determine that this supplementation is necessary? If you had bloodwork done, what results did you see?

What is your birds diet?
 
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Laurasea

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*anyone else think something seems fishy here?*

Is your vet a certified avian vet?

I'M NOT A VET and not privy to your consultations, but I'm very concerned about the rate of supplementation. Hypervitaminosis can be a problem, and one sign of Hypervitaminosis A (excessive vitamin A)in young children is excessive itching. CHildren aren't parrots, I know, but a quick look around really only talks about Vit. A deficiency, so that's about the only frame of reference I have.

Did your vet do bloodwork to determine that this supplementation is necessary? If you had bloodwork done, what results did you see?

What is your birds diet?

I agree! Vitamin A can become toxic! A sign of liver issues can be itchy!

I am niot a vet. But if this was me I would stop all powders aded to food. One toxic overload. Two she could be allergic to something in them. To increase vetsmin A by diet feed chilli peppers, fresh or dried, parrots love them and they have vitamin A. But I'd wait a week coming off the powder to feed them.

Probiotics a good thing. But for my own personal preference I feed a thumbprint size if fresh live cultures yogurt, my GCC will like from my fingers, I get fruit kind. No artificial sweeteners thio..

I would get a digital kitchen scale and track weights in grams.

I had a very subtle sick GCC and she did like yours, slept more, slight tail Bob, and for mine smelled like yeast. She also lost weight. Probiotics , in the form yogurt fux e her up. After I spent a fortune over 700 bucks at an avain vet specialist if 20 years who said she wasn't sick.. ugh after she got well she gained back ten grams!! Quit naps.. stopped smells if yeast.

Anyway that's my advice for you. I hope your baby fully recover soon!!
 

NewQuakerMom

Member
Apr 7, 2020
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Thank you new Quaker Mom. We rent still and our landlord bought it in December and did all the remodeling bin Jan and we moved in on 3-7. So def no smells or chemicals. We made sure as well that nothing new was done before us moving in. The landlord also used to own bigger parrots. I have heard of an air purifier, do you know by chance, is that something we can buy online for the room she is in? Or is that an expensive installation thing for when you own a place? I can def try that if it will work. I think this is the hormonal season right? I just had her out to engage her with toys, rings, colors, games with rewards of her favorite almonds and she was not interested, started niping as she can get so now shes back in her cage sitting on her perch but at least doing the beak noise contentment thing. But looks like she is about to fall asleep again. Do you have any recommendations on a safe air purifier? Thank you!

I'm not sure where you're located, but if you're in the States, you can buy single-room HEPA filtered air purifiers on Amazon. I bought this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MM8FLTP
I don't know for sure that it would help - this is my first pet bird, haha! But I have tons of allergies, and this filter makes a difference for me, so hopefully it's helping him as well. :) I hope you find the answer!! Everyone else who commented sounds like they are SUPER knowledgeable about this!
 
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Chrissy5

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Oh no. We had a great avian vet up North with 1 car it's over an hour each way for me to get her there. I joined the talk of the town where we moved and this vet is def. A certified avian vet. The first one I took her to die nail trimming, he said he didn't do anything else due to not having proper team training. He recommended the one I went to in Lisle, and I made sure they have 4 avian vets and I read all reviews. She was itching bad before the vitamin A and now is on that fatty supplement. I will need to call my old vet and ask her if I'm giving her way too much stuff like you guys said. Her diet has been the same since a baby , roudybush pellets and only on the am she gets 4 balls of her nutri-berries (seeds) and then every other day per our old vet she get mango or blueberries/raspberries. Due to the pandemic I buy frozen and wait till it's not frozen and give her just a bit. Then we make frozen veggies for dinner and we give her ones that have corn, peas, green beans, carrots. Both vets know we cannot get her to eat anything but corn and peas. I've tried eating it with her like zucchini, broccoli, etc but she is so bad at veggies. Then per the old vet, at night she gets a small scoop of zupreem fun food that has dried veggies and fruit in it. She is the one (old vet) that had me just give her the probiotic supplement called natural gold powder to keep her immune up. I'm eventually terminal and she is my companion , I'm her caretaker. I didn't think at all I could be oversupplemening her as I'm going off of the vets and have them a full history of her and told them she was already on the gold powder. I better call. No blood work was done. I couldn't believe it was $400 to do the nose cultures and send them to the lab as she was sneezing every 5 minutes, was legarthic, seemed sick etc. Thanks for the advice I'll stop the supplements till I hear back from our old vet.
 

chris-md

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I cannot recommend strongly enough having blood work done. I am frankly shocked Either of your avian vet wouldn’t do bloodwork before recommending supplements.

I’d be tempted to recommend trying a different pellet also, but one step at a time.
 

Laurasea

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Chris, GCC can have sudden death due to blood draws. There is a weird virus or something they can have. We had a blood draw death in a GCC not that long ago, was it a bad draw, was it this syndrome I don't know ... I personally don't do blood on my GCC, other birds I'm ok with. I've heard if sudden death from blood draw with conures multiple times..m
Conure Bleeding Syndrome
https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/conure-bleeding
For example, several conure species are vulnerable to an often obscure, yet serious, health condition called conure bleeding syndrome (CBS). The syndrome (sometimes referred to as Erythremic Myelosis or Hemorrhagic Conure Syndrome) typically afflicts baby conures, though has been noted to occur in adults under stressful conditions. Conure owners first notice symptoms affiliated with sudden-onset anemia, such as pronounced weakness and a loss of equilibrium. Excessive sleepiness is also noted. The bird may begin to bleed from the mouth or the cloaca, though some bleed under the wing or on other parts of the body. Sometimes, bleeding may not appear on the body, but the bird may be internally hemorrhaging. Avian veterinarians suggest that the symptoms of CBS may mirror those of lead toxicosis, or heavy metal poisoning. The cause of conure bleeding syndrome (CBS) remains a bit of a mystery. Though the subject of conjecture, CBS is usually chalked up to nutritional deficiencies, such as a lack of calcium, Vitamin D and Vitamin K. Another theory is that CBS originates in a retrovirus. There may be some genetic derivatio

Read more at: https://wagwalking.com/bird/condition/conure-bleeding

This itchy thing is weird, if before the powders...with a pellet diet, of two kinds of pellets, tho I still wonder if she would need..
 
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riddick07

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Do you give any of the hot peppers? Like in a mix or the Nutriberry one. My turquoise green cheek Conure had a period where he was very itchy and was plucking out feathers. I gave him roudybush & the pepper nutriberries at the time too. I tried a variety of things and eventually he stopped. I’m not sure exactly what worked but it was probably a combo of things. I took out all hot peppers from his diet & switched him to a variety of different pellets for awhile (I used to grab the pellet mixes...had like every different pellet around in a few different mixes...that a bird shelter fed since I volunteered there. since I stopped Volunteering he doesn’t get the pellet mixes anymore haha), he is now on pretty bird daily select only. He also gets nut/fruit/seed mix too but no hot peppers. He also has a big enough water bowl to bath in and there is a humidifier running for mine too.

I’m not sure exactly on what was wrong with him. I didn’t do any testing honestly besides a Fecal & I think a skin swab. I had him since he was just weaned and fully vetted by them. He had a million things to do but he was always just itchy and plucking feathers out. He no longer does either of those things for years now. So I’m not sure what worked or what combo exactly solved the issue but figured I’d chime in with some of what I think was helpful for my guy!
 
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Chrissy5

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Thank you everyone! Really. I contacted our original vet up North who has seen her since she was a baby and agreed. Too many supplements. She said stop the vit K as I texted her and said you mean the fatty acid one or the Vit A one? Maybe a dumb question but maybe it's the fatty acid one. She was itching before the supplements and never had this problem ever till we moved. She knows we have the humidifier , she knows us we do everything by the book no candles, no scents no nothing in our house ever. You are all correct, she said if she's still taking naps etc (not normal for ours at all ever in 3 years) we complained she didn't sleep before. She said we need to bring her up on Friday. So I will make an appt tomorrow to get on her schedule. An hour and 5 each way. I'll bring some food and a bowl with a water bottle so she can try to drink something before we head back for the long ride as her carrier doesn't have that stuff. And I buckle her in the passenger side. She agreed something is up like I'm saying. I should of made the drive and brought her up to her in the first place. It was an emergency looking bird so I thought I was making the best decision. The antibiotics were okay but I guess not the nasal drops we gave her. I'm mad at myself because I tried to take care of her and seems I didn't get the correct treatment for her after most of my disability check too. So going back up north def back to Schaumburg. I will ask her about the food, diet has been the same since she was a baby by the breader as well, there are tons of allergies I told her down here even my husband and I are like omg. But her eyes are clean but you know your own bird and sleeping, not wanting to play games, fluffy still, something is still off. And they didn't do a throat swab which my vet found weird. Thank you for all your help, I'll keep you all updated as to what our normal vet says. Lesson learned, but I didn't think she could make it Another day and didn't want to chance it. I'm stopping all supplements till she sees her. I hope they wouldn't upsell me on this stuff to not help my conure. We will find out. I will ask too about if we need to change good, what's going on etc. Please if you can send good thoughts I can't afford to hospitalize or have anything serious so I hope she can figure it out safely. Thank you guys
 

Cycletim

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How about the emotional aspect from the move?? Or exposure to the daylight ?? Has that changed ? Or hormones ?
 

chris-md

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Aphrodite - red throated conure (RIP)
I had no idea, Laura, thanks for elucidating that. Learn something new every night. So yeah, take bloodwork off the table.
 
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Chrissy5

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Thank you everyone! Sorry if I didn't post this, I thought I did. Maui seems sick today so I was able to text with my old vet last night. I'm bringing her up north Friday for an appointment and I'm glad my husband's boss lives close so I can have the car. She agreed with everything you guys said, I stopped all the supplements immediately except the one she gave me just the probiotic and she will look and see what's going on with her Friday. Yup, I was basically taken for a fool saying my bird needed this supplement and this one etc while I feed her healthy the same way all this time. I hope she can figure it out. I took video of her today all fluffy and again sleeping during the day on the video she was looking but after was napping. Something is off and after 2 weeks of antibiotics I can't figure out what it is. Her cage is always clean, water changed 4 times a day, I just hope it's an easy fix. Thank you to all who replied. I will also ask if it's the food and time to change up pellets. She was itching all day today and I took pics and sent them to her as well. If I knew how to post the video of her, I would to see what your opinions are. Thanks
 

Laurasea

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I'm sorry you are going through this. It's so hard to imagine with your own health issues. Big hugs to you.

I would switch to bottled water. I would look for any metal she could have chewed. I worry about zinc or metal toxicity..
If there any new toys you've gotten, remove them for time.
Is there anything new she had gotten?

For sure go to bottled water, pipes could be leaching into the water, or their could be a caliform bloom.....

Also check food for spoilage. Rowdybush has peanuts as ingredients, and I've seen it spoil before. Check all food. I bought a bag that had spoiled food both as pellets and as seeds before. Smell the food, and look through it closely.

Clean the humidifier. Their could be a mild or fungus build up in some part of it.

This is a good link to metal poisoning. It mentions feather picking but not itchy. But I know itchy can be a symptom.
https://todaysveterinarypractice.com/lead-and-zinc-toxicity-in-birds/
And from a different article, note ITCHY us a symptom listed below
"More commonly however is chronic zinc poisoning, where small amounts are taken in over a period of time. This is often not in the form of zinc metal, so x-rays may not show up any metal particles in the stomach.

Signs of chronic zinc poisoning may be vague, with depression, lethargy, weight loss and problems eating. Chronic zinc poisoning has been show to be a cause of feather picking in some birds and appears to cause feather loss, skin changes and itching in others.

Chelation treatment can resolve picking in these cases. There are obviously many causes of feather destructive behaviour and zinc poisoning is perhaps over diagnosed as a cause of feather picking. Feather loss on the head, where the bird cannot pick the feathers, can be suspicious for zinc poisoning, although again this is only one of many possible causes.

The most common source of zinc is newly galvanised wire. This can be made safer by brushing the wire and applying a mild acetic acid (vinegar) to remove powder and particulates.

Zinc or zinc alloys are found in a number of household items, including coins, keys, wire, staples and jewellery. The metal in older or less reputably sourced cages can contain zinc. Powder coatings prevent access to the metal, but care should be exercised if the coating is chewed off to expose the metal underneath.

Blood samples can be used to determine zinc poisoning, however the diagnosis is a little trickier than with lead. Firstly when taking the blood sample, a special syringe that does not have a rubber plunger must be used, as contact with rubber will affect the result.

Also normal zinc levels vary widely across different species of Parrot and even within some species. Some birds will have high zinc levels with no apparent ill effects. This can make it problematic to definitively say that the level of zinc within the bird is high enough to cause a problem." https://www.northernparrots.com/mobile/lead-and-zinc-poisoning-in-parrots-blog155/

Not saying that this is your issues, but it's a rule out.
Keep us posted, I'm praying for you both.

Also keep home warmer. Warmth helps birds a lot
 
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