Demanding a refund

[maribo]

got a bird last month an Indian ringneck he’s four months now, and it’s been a roller coaster with this birdie. Before we took him home The breeder said that he was healthy and he tested negative for psittacos and he was a male. This past month we’ve done so many testing because the vet said he was not okay since the beginning (before we brought him home)

First we did a drop test and annual check up and and it turns out he had abnormal drops so they prescribed him some baytril for 10 days and after the 10 days they did a blood and fecal test and the blood test came out with that he had high blood white cells count and his fecal was OK but they still wanted it to monitor it. And now we are doing other tests that include the feather, and beak disease, gender test, x-rays and again for psittacosis. My vet told me that he is experiencing symptoms and he’s getting the treatment planned of a bird who has psittacosis. We’re still waiting for the results but The breeder lied to me if they do come back positive, would it be advisable to call the breeder and say that they lied and they sold me a sick bird and a demand a refund, but still keep the bird because if he does have psittacosis he will spread to other birds and that’s not a good idea. I spend around $800 at the vet. My husband and I got sick already too. If They don’t give me my refund I also want to take them to small court claims….


Does anyone have advice or have experience this?

 

[ravvlet]

Not sure what part of the world you are in, but I believe in the US pets are considered property legally, although I believe that distinction is made by state rather than federally.

Assuming you are in the United States, there’s some decent info in this article:

When You Buy a Sick Pet: Is the Seller Liable?

Learn about pet "lemon laws" and other ways you may be able to get a refund, exchange, or payment for some vet bills from a dealer or breeder who sold you an unhealthy dog or cat.

www.lawyers.com

It seems like most of the laws largely apply to more common companion animals like dogs, but an argument can be made for birds. This in particular seems relevant to your situation:

Many states offer a third option: keep the pet and get reimbursement for some the costs of veterinary treatment to deal with the preexisting illness or disease. Usually, reimbursement is limited to the amount of the purchase price, but California’s cap is 150 percent of that amount.

You are usually required to notify the seller within 10-14 days of your birds purchase for pet “lemon laws” to apply, and if you want to pursue this legally (assuming you’ve reached out to them and they refuse to take fiscal responsibility) you’ll need to contact an attorney experienced in animal or consumer law.

If the bird is seriously ill - and it concerns me that your vet doesn’t want this parrot to go back to the breeder, as that leads me to assume they believe the breeder won’t properly care for it - it may also be worth your time to contact your local Animal Control about it, as there may be a real case of neglect. At the very least, it will put them on their radar and hopefully they will check them out, especially if they receive enough complaints.

 

[SailBoat]

So very well stated above!
Strongly recommend you follow my Good Friend's advise.

 

[Laurasea]

I'm sorry you have a sick bird. I'm so glad you've stuck with finding answers with your veterinarian. And working to cure your baby. Yep its plenty expensive.

Chlamydia is a weird bacteria. And because of how it intermittent sheds tests can come back negative. And it can be the bird was not clinical when you brought it home. Many birds just brought home , the stress of that, will weaken the immune system and allow a latent infection to become active. Some burds can become sick years later. This bacteria is pretty wide spread throughout the parrot population. Most all burds have been exposed at some point. Some get over the infection and were never knowingly sick, some become carriers (unknown and intermittent shedding, very difficult to test for) some become sick( active infection must be treated to recover), and some die.

I'm not a breeder. And I'm not really trying to defend your breeder. I'm just trying to show the bigger picture. Its something everyone who brings home a new bird , young or adult, who breaks with a bacterial infection, should consider Chlamydia.

When I bring home a new bird, I try to really pamper with radiant warmth, extra yummy foods, to really make sure they are eating well. Not to overwhelming them with to much at first. Because no matter how relaxed and happy they seem . A transition to a new home is very stressful. Especially for a newly weaned younger bird, without a lot of life experience.

In no way am I saying you did anything wrong.

Just so many people will read this thread or lurk. Many burds transitioning to a new home do get sick. Im hoping an awareness of Chlamydia, and awareness of how stressful moving homes is on birds will be helpful to others.

Im glad you shared your story , and increased awareness of Chlamydia. Shared just how expensive veterinarian care is for parrots.

I'm hoping now you are treating for Chlamydia ( 45 days of doxycycline, and a relapse isn't uncommon ) you will have full recovery. Chlamydia is recoverable and responds well to appropriate antibiotics mostly doxycycline. Azithormycin is also reported to treat. But other antibiotics won't.

 

[maribo]

I'm sorry you have a sick bird. I'm so glad you've stuck with finding answers with your veterinarian. And working to cure your baby. Yep its plenty expensive.

Chlamydia is a weird bacteria. And because of how it intermittent sheds tests can come back negative. And it can be the bird was not clinical when you brought it home. Many birds just brought home , the stress of that, will weaken the immune system and allow a latent infection to become active. Some burds can become sick years later. This bacteria is pretty wide spread throughout the parrot population. Most all burds have been exposed at some point. Some get over the infection and were never knowingly sick, some become carriers (unknown and intermittent shedding, very difficult to test for) some become sick( active infection must be treated to recover), and some die.

I'm not a breeder. And I'm not really trying to defend your breeder. I'm just trying to show the bigger picture. Its something everyone who brings home a new bird , young or adult, who breaks with a bacterial infection, should consider Chlamydia.

When I bring home a new bird, I try to really pamper with radiant warmth, extra yummy foods, to really make sure they are eating well. Not to overwhelming them with to much at first. Because no matter how relaxed and happy they seem . A transition to a new home is very stressful. Especially for a newly weaned younger bird, without a lot of life experience.

In no way am I saying you did anything wrong.

Just so many people will read this thread or lurk. Many burds transitioning to a new home do get sick. Im hoping an awareness of Chlamydia, and awareness of how stressful moving homes is on birds will be helpful to others.

Im glad you shared your story , and increased awareness of Chlamydia. Shared just how expensive veterinarian care is for parrots.

I'm hoping now you are treating for Chlamydia ( 45 days of doxycycline, and a relapse isn't uncommon ) you will have full recovery. Chlamydia is recoverable and responds well to appropriate antibiotics mostly doxycycline. Azithormycin is also reported to treat. But other antibiotics won't.

Thank you for your response. The vet told me that the bird has been sick before he came home to me., And there's no way he got with here. I've been visiting him since April, and since he seemed off and not normal, I told the breeder about this, and each one said it was normal, and now that my vet told me that everything she believes it came from over there. In 2017 The place I got it from had an the outbreak of Chlamydia, and they had to shut it down.

And do I agree with you, that we have to look at the big picture, but my vet told me that this is not normal.

 

[Squeeing_Onion]

Just so many people will read this thread or lurk. Many burds transitioning to a new home do get sick. Im hoping an awareness of Chlamydia, and awareness of how stressful moving homes is on birds will be helpful to others.

*waves* Hi! I'm one of those lurkers. I learned a lot in this thread.

Sorry to hear the OP is having such a rough go with their baby boy. I hate to see that this is such a common occurrence for parrots.

As far as experience with the legal issues itself, I haven't myself, however I know someone who tried to take it somewhere when they rescued a sick parrot from a pet store.

I don't think she pursued it beyond reporting them to PETA and asking for their help, and most all they did was give her a sob story about other animals and thanked her for reporting the sick "puppies" and please donate to us. I'll post the relevant info they did share below.

Unless you get lucky, you're mostly on your own to find people willing to help and do something.

The pet store one of my birds (Echo) was rescued from by his first caretaker, was keeping him in a small glass aquarium. He injured himself trying to escape confinement, and had too-small legbands his legs were growing around.

The store refused to cover ANY veterinarian costs for the surgery to fix his legs and face, and state in their sales policy on the bill of sale they have pet owners sign that they are not liable for any of veterinarian costs.

When they were asked to cover Echo's medical costs which were incurred in that 14 day window of bringing him home, they said "Absolutely not! However, we'll happily let you return the bird and cover the vet costs ourselves if we "deem them necessary.""

I think its pretty necessary to remove metal bands digging into a birds leg and have a veterinarian check out and treat the facial wound they caused by improper handling and housing, and terrorizing the bird into neurotic escape attempts of futility.

There's a lot of lousy sellers and breeders out there who don't care for the birds they sell as living beings, they just care about profit. And many of them are willing to lie to a customer to make that sale.

Anyhow, here's the relevant part of the email I mentioned:

....
Some states and/or localities have enacted what have been coined “pet lemon laws” that protect the consumer in situations such as yours. You can find a copy of your state law at www.animallaw.com. You should also obtain a copy of local ordinances to determine what action you might be able to take to receive compensation for the veterinary bills you have incurred, and the price you paid. You can also file a small claims suit at your local courthouse to receive compensation. This can easily be done without a lawyer. You should also contact your local media outlet in hopes that they will do a story on this facility, and notify local animal control so they can check on conditions for the puppies currently at the property.



Although the impulse to assist these unfortunate animals is understandable, “buying” animals can cause even greater problems. Exchanging money for guardianship not only rewards those who create animal suffering and perpetuates the breeding industry but also reduces the number of possible homes available to the rescued and abandoned animals who desperately need them.

It’s vital that you report your concerns to the store's local animal control immediately. Give them a few hours, then call them back to determine their findings and course of action. At the very least, they will be able to create a file on this particular establishment, which is always the first start to getting these places overhauled or shut down entirely.

We very much appreciate your willingness to take action on behalf of the animals who were lucky enough, despite their circumstances, to have you worry for them.

Thank you again for your concern and please share this information with any others who are planning to purchase animals from a breeder or pet store.

Sincerely,
[Person's Name Here], PETA

 

[ravvlet]

I’m sorry you/your friend were not able to get restitution, @Squeeing_Onion . That sounds terrible.

I will say I have personally had a lot of success with reporting neglect, even in the case of backyard breeders, to animal control. We have a cat we got as a kitten and it was clear the person from whom we got her from grossly misrepresented her condition and in addition, their home was not sanitary and they wouldn’t show us the areas they kept the cats. Animal control followed up and got a warrant to investigate (I believe based on previous reports; so it wasn’t their first time hearing about this) and charged them with neglect.

PETA is a private organization and not the same as animal control - I would personally not waste my time with them, but that is up to you. Animal Control is run by your state and has licensed agents trained to check on the welfare of companion animals.

 

[Littleredbeak]

I was in a similiar situation I got the bird knowing she needed treatment and care. I couldn't leave her. I did pay their asking price and tried to get her vet bills covered by contacting them... but they honestly didn't care about the bird or that she needed treatment and just want to be rid of her. I would do it again too. If you really would like to pursue reimbursement of some kind you could contact them with her vet records and if that does not do anything make a report to BBB ( I should have done this but was dealing with the birds health ailments and a sick relative). I'm personally thankful I founder her and was able to help her.

Your situation is different because you were expecting a healthy bird.



My mom once told me sometimes you have too look at the reality of situation and if the words do not match then you are being lied to.

I hope your bird has a speedy recovery and I am thankful your recognized the bird being ill and we're able to get treatment.

 

[HeatherG]

If your bird tests POSITIVE for psittacosis (chlamydiosis) this is a reportable disease and the vet will report it. I think that means that they will tell the state or federal government or cdc which breeder you got the bird from as he didn’t “randomly get” psittacosis from heaven…

If you simply have a bird that is “a poor doer” but are not able to prove psittacosis (my first parrot was like this ) I’m guessing you have some sort of warranty from the breeder but at 4 months it may be over.

Take a look at your paperwork if you haven’t already. And ask if you would want to send this bird back, if you are willing to treat him with a chance that he will always have issues and maybe a shorter life.

I’m sorry… a similar thing happened to me with my first Quaker before I knew what a healthy Quaker should be like. She came to me with aspergillosis and was sick for four years of her life before succumbing during diagnostic scoping surgery. I was heartbroken when Gonzo passed but I wouldn’t have sent her back and never knew what was wrong anyhow.

 

[HeatherG]

got a bird last month an Indian ringneck he’s four months now, and it’s been a roller coaster with this birdie. Before we took him home The breeder said that he was healthy and he tested negative for psittacos and he was a male. This past month we’ve done so many testing because the vet said he was not okay since the beginning (before we brought him home)

First we did a drop test and annual check up and and it turns out he had abnormal drops so they prescribed him some baytril for 10 days and after the 10 days they did a blood and fecal test and the blood test came out with that he had high blood white cells count and his fecal was OK but they still wanted it to monitor it. And now we are doing other tests that include the feather, and beak disease, gender test, x-rays and again for psittacosis. My vet told me that he is experiencing symptoms and he’s getting the treatment planned of a bird who has psittacosis. We’re still waiting for the results but The breeder lied to me if they do come back positive, would it be advisable to call the breeder and say that they lied and they sold me a sick bird and a demand a refund, but still keep the bird because if he does have psittacosis he will spread to other birds and that’s not a good idea. I spend around $800 at the vet. My husband and I got sick already too. If They don’t give me my refund I also want to take them to small court claims….


Does anyone have advice or have experience this?

A late comment…if you and your husband got psittacosis/ chlamydiosis from your poor bird, I think this would give you a good legal basis to ask for damages.

I’m not a lawyer but that’s my thought…sorry your boy is still sick.