Do Eclectus have a good memory? (like if you're mad at them)

[natv]

I'm still trying to find a way to show Kiwi that I'm mad at him when he bites. Screaming "no", yelling "ouch", etc doesn't seem to work. To make him let go when he bites I have to shake my hand down which causes him to flap his wings and to regain balance he has to let go.

I know it's said that they bite for a reason but I really can't figure him out. Sometimes it really seems there is no reason.

This often happens when I'm taking him back to his cage, especially if I just put his dinner in there. You'd think he'd be happy that I'm taking him to his cage where a fresh bowl of chop-mix awaits. But no, just before he steps off the stick or rope I'm holding him on he reaches back and bites down on my wrist or hand :/

So I give him a stern look, say "no, bad, no biting!" and now I'm going to ignore him for the rest of the evening (this would be the first time I completely ignore him.. well we'll see how long I can last, if he starts saying 'hello' and melts my heart I may give in...ugh)


Do they know when you're mad? And if you ignore them, do they know it's because they did something wrong?

I just don't know what else to do in this case. He goes out of his way to bite too, because it's not like I let my hand anywhere near him because I know he tends to do this sometimes.

 

[Julianna]

The reason he bites you when you put him back in his cage is probably that he enjoys his time out. He doesn't want to be put back in the cage. You might be able to fix this by putting extra toys, treats, and other fun things in the cage, but he may always dislike being put back inside, since he likes being out and playing with you. If you work at it, I'm sure you can get him to go inside easily eventually, though.

The reason it doesn't help when you yell "no" or "ouch," is that you're actually reinforcing him. Parrots love loud sounds, and sometimes when they scream they're happy or playing, so when you yell, you're basically saying that you're having fun. They can't tell the difference between you're yelling as praise and you're yelling as punishment. To get him to stop biting, I would simply immediately put him down when he bites. Eventually he'll realize that when he bites, he gets set on the ground and ignored. You can pick him up again in just a few seconds, and he'll still get the message.

Good luck!

P.S. What a beautiful bird! I love the pictures in your signature!

 

[natv]

Thanks Julianna (and for the comment on his pictures too

I will try the floor idea next time(s) he bites. He *hates* the floor (so I'll have to set his stick/perch down too since I know he won't step off of it)

I really did think he wanted back in his cage today... he flew down from his perch and started to walk towards his cage when he saw me tinkering with his food bowls (though I think that may have been more of a defensive thing, he tends to get aggressive around his food in his cage). I had put him back on his playstand though for a few more minutes before taking him to his cage as I was still preparing his food but maybe that bite was left over from the aggression of watching me mess with his cage or food...

 

[Julianna]

If he doesn't like the floor that would make the negetive reinforcer even stronger, which is good. You shouldn't have to leave him there long either. He could also just be somewhat territorial of his cage/food. Maybe he always bites because you're too close to his food, or maybe it's a combination of territoriality and not wanting to go back in the cage. Its so hard to tell sometimes...

 

[WannaBeAParrot]

Nathalie, you might be on To something about his aggression when you got near Kiwi's cage. It is definitely a reasonable thought that he doesn't want to be put in his cage. But it could also be a territorial warning. Also am wondering if the positioning of the ring u use for putting hin the cage gets put in to a position he doesn't like, i.e. it is shakey?

U don't need to ignore him for the rest of the night. He might not get it. But if u do short timeouts where u don't react to the bite, but instead immediately stop interacting with him and walk away calmly. U can go talk to him again in 3 or 4 min or so.

Another idea... When u want to pit him in cage, can u just set his transfer perch down on the top of the cage and let him go in on his own. Whe he is on his ring and behaving, u can reinforce 'good bird'. When u set down on or at cage u can also reinforce 'good bird'

 

[natv]

We kissed and made up for the night (I couldn't ignore him lol), I'll try the floor thing the next time he bites, I think that might do the trick eventually.


Thanks guys

 

[WannaBeAParrot]

Ha. It looks like julianna and i were writing our posts at the same time and our thoughts r on the same track.

 

[MonicaMc]

What about putting him on his cage through-out the day? Does he ever bite then or is it only in the evening?

If/when you put him on his cage throughout the day, do you ever leave treats there? Do you always leave *HIM* there? Or do you occasionally pick him up shortly after putting him down? Do you increase/decrease the amounts of time he's on his cage? Does he have foraging activities at his cage?

 

[maillet]

Parrots have absolutely no evolutionary history of Negative Reinforcement. In the wild if they receive anger, they often are escaping with lives or dead. Females of Ekkies are adept with body language and males are often keen to our own moods.

If your Ekkie is biting one thing I have recommended elsewhere with high success rate is simply detach. They are often doing it to play or for attention or out of stress, so if you are not doing anything to stress than turning away can work wonderful.

A short time-out (not whole night) but a good 2-Minutes even putting on floor to stare up at you, and consistently every time is enough to teach what to avoid.

 

[Julianna]

Definately short time outs are good. I didn't mean to say negative reinforcement...I know that doesn't work well with parrots. I think even just a few seconds can do it.

 

[natv]

I can't recall if this happens during the day or not, I'm usually at work during the day.

He does have toys in his cage. Yesterday in fact when I got home I tied a starfruit to his cage bars, and he also still had some spray millet left from the day before hanging through a foraging holder.

I also engage him during the day even though I'm at work - I have a webcam set up overlooking his cage that has a microphone and is connected to external speakers. So I connect through my phone remotely and talk to him here and there.

I also set up an older Android phone next to his cage and I remotely make it play videos or music here and there. He likes to make noises/say a few words he knows when he hears those.



Question - for when I put him on the floor for a few seconds when he bites next, should I say anything to him or just walk away or stare at him or ?


Thanks

 

[Boysmom]

Ruby doesn't like to be put back in her cage for the night, and she sometimes will bite very lightly. Usually she just refuses to step off my hand, so I started offering her a nutri berry over the perch I wanted her to step off onto. She ONLY gets the nutri berries when I want her to do something she doesn't want to do. It has worked very well for me and Ruby, because she will anxiously step off to get the treat.

 

[mtdoramike]

Your bird like mine doesn't like to be put down. He probably treats you as his play toy like mine does me. Mac used to reach back and bite me as well when I would put him back on his playstand or cage if he didn't want to leave me. He stopped doing this when I would YELL at him STOP & NO. I don't mean speak in a loud voice, I MEAN YELL right in his face. Then I would walk away and make several passes by his cage or playstand and ignore him.

Your bird is testing his boundaries with you to see what you will allow him to get away with. You have to be a bit forceful with him when he's doing this and let him know who is boss.

 

[natv]

Thanks Mike, I think that's exactly it as I have also been bitten when bringing to his playstand now that you mention it.

I'll try the floor/ignore tactic first and if that doesn't work out I'll try the loud yelling lol.

 

[lpolliard]

I agree with Mike. He is testing you. The GF is timid around Chico and he will bite her while perched on her arm. I think Chico realizes by doing this he gets what he wants and that is to be returned to me. My bad. I will have to do better in the future to not give in to this behavior. The GF will have to toughen up and stop giving me the 'get this bad bird off my arm' look. My daughter never gets bit and the difference being she handles Chico confidently, almost roughly, rolling him around and such. I think Chico knows not to try to force an issue with my daughter and remains submissive to her. Chico always wants to be on me so this kind of biting is not an issue with me. Maybe your bird was unknowingly trained in the past to bite when he wanted to be returned to the cage and continues this behavior when he sees the cage? If he dislikes being on the floor alone then putting him on the floor after a bite may get him to associate biting was being put on the floor and he will stop this kind of response.

 

[MonicaMc]

Ethical, Moral & Spiritual Considerations of Companion Parrot Care (just a good read)

Lecture on Parrot Behavior Problems

Behavior Trained Through Consistency…A Win/Win Outcome for All

The ABCs of Behavior

BEHAVIOR ANALYSIS AND PARROT LEARNING


Labeling the behavior as "bossy" or "testing limits" doesn't help to resolve the behavior, merely gives it a name which may be inaccurate.



I much prefer the technique of trying to train a parrot to do the behaviors that we want them to do rather than trying to focus on stopping the bad behavior. If you only focus on teaching a parrot to stop a bad behavior, you are not teaching them a *good* behavior to do in place of the behavior we deem as bad. The more you teach a parrot to do good behaviors, and the more you reward those behaviors, the more likely that the parrot is going to *WANT* to do those behaviors over what you would consider as "bad" behaviors.


In the case of biting while going back to the cage, rather than focus on the biting and trying to get that to stop, try instead to figure out a way to make it a positive experience going *back* to the cage so that he doesn't feel the need to bite you. In other words, make him want to go back to his cage! Give him a good enough reason to go back without biting! If you are only focusing on the biting, you are not figuring out why he's biting in the first place.

 

[natv]

Thanks, i just ordered some Nutri Berries I hadn't heard of those before, I'll use those as treats for positive reinforcement and for foraging

 

[drlisaort]

I find Oliver is most happy when he eats his meal out of his cage. I have a moveable stand that really makes a difference in keeping him socially connected with us.

On a side note, it's funny that Oliver LOVES the floor. Go figure! He looks like a waddling duck when he goes running down the hallway. I don't think he realizes he's not a dog and he's not human.