Eclectus Calcium

[azflcowboy]

Hello I am a new guy
My vet advised Moses calcium level was too low:
Calcium 7.3 range should be = 8.1 - 11.9 mg/dL
The last vet saId his cholestrol was too high and i should stop giving walnut bits as a treat in training Moses
She advised i could crush a tums capsule to give to Moses. I did not like that idea as to how do i know if Moses is getting too much or too little calcium.
She agreed and said try Zupreen Pelets that are for breeding parrots. I searched and could not find a Zupreen food with extra calcium for breeding or laying egg parrots
Anyone give me advise as to how to increase the 7.3 calcium rating plus making sure Moses does not over dose calcium.
She said Calcium deficiency could lead to seziures.
She tried to take blood from Moses and failed to get enough quantity for blood count lab check. I did not like the idea of her using a young inexperienced tech to draw the blood and I told her so after they finished. I do not think I will be going back to her.
We live in Citrus County Florida (rural small county) and I cannot find a good aviary vet. I am planning to check out Ocala and Gainesville or even Orland
here are other results which she said she likes to see these low values hmmmmmm
10/20/22 (Order Received) 10/20/22 7:40 AM (Last Updated) TEST RESULT REFERENCE VALUE
Glucose a 277 216 - 396 mg/dL BUN 1 1 - 4 mg/dL
Uric Acid 1.6 2.0 - 11.0 mg/dL L
Phosphorus 1.7 5.6 - 8.0 mg/dL L
Calcium 7.3 8.1 - 11.9 mg/dL L Calcium:
Phosphorus Ratio 4.3 Sodium Insufficient sample for complete analysis.
Potassium Insufficient sample for complete analysis.
Chloride Insufficient sample for complete analysis. Total Protein 3.4 3.2 - 4.3 g/dL Albumin 1.3 1.1 - 2.0 g/dL Globulin 2.1 2.0 - 3.3 g/dL Albumin: Globulin Ratio 0.6 0.5 - 1.8 AST 245 144 - 339 U/L GGT 0 2 - 6 U/L L Cholesterol 198 100 - 261 mg/dL Triglyceride 114 mg/dL Amylase 421 562 - 684 U/L L Creatine Kinase 141 132 - 410 U/L Bile Acids Preprandial / Random b 15.8 30.0 - 110.0 µmol/L L a Panel performed on diluted specimen.
Please assist if possible
Thank you and God Bless His Creations
Lawrence Kiceina

 

[chris-md]

Hello and welcome!

What can you tell us about hai current diet? Im fairly certain the answer to your issue is simply tweaks to the diet without actual supplementation, given that he is low, but not by much. Too too too much. With the high cholesterol This feels like a “hes on the wrong diet” situation. But it would help to know more about what his day to day meals and treat situation is like.

 

[azflcowboy]

Hello Thank you for replying to my post
Moses diet with times:
7am & 4pm = Mixed vegetables = sweet potato, carrots, spinach or kale, defrosted (frozen mixed vegetables from Aldi (carrot, peas, string bean, corn) bell pepper (varies green,red,orange) lentils occasionally,

12pm & 5pm = Fruits - grapes, blueberries, blackberries, occasional strawberry, apples, pears, bananas, occasional melons, pomegranates, peaches, cherries, plums (not everyday but variations) kiwi.

Extras - occasional egg whites, cooked chicken breasts, cooked rice.

We have been giving Moses this diet for almost 3 years and his weight is good = 368 grams..

The doctor did not do well in drawing blood. The vet only obained a small sample and Moses was traumatized for 2 days, now he is back to normal. The vet said she will give him gas next time to put him asleep. What do you think of that? The vet had her young tech try to draw the blood and she missed the first time and only got small sample 2nd time and the vet said she could not try again.

Thankyou for your attention on this matter, I am an old guy (73 years ) and Moses is my Best Friend
God Bless God's Creations

Larry Kiceina

 

[chris-md]

Thanks foe the detailed reply!

I love that you care for your boy so much! Good news is I think we can fix this - or at least put a great dent!

seems that You seem to have grasped that eclectus is a unique species with special dietary requirements. And you’ve now seen a common problem we have: a lot of times the eclectus community is more abreast of husbandry and diet than vets are. Shocking, I know!

To begin with, I recommend reviewing this sticky thread that addresses eclectus diet:

Eclectus diet do’s and donts

In your case, youve got a great foundation, just need to build up a bit more. Here are the changes i recommend you make:

DONT!
1) dont feed chicken or egg anymore. Some birds can take them, but eclectus are particularly prone to issues around atherosclerosis and high cholesterol. Since your boy has these issues you need to cut out some of the things that dramatically make it worse: these meat products.

2) dont feed too many fruits. This is a hormonal control issue more than anything, but these fruits can reqlly trigger hormonal issues (im assumig your afternoons are an assault of fruit, but im not clear from how you worded it).

DO!
overall you need more fiber, and greater nutritional diversity.
1) add broccoli and cauliflower to the diet. These are very calcium rich.
2) add more pulses - lentils, chickpeas, mung beans, adzuki beans. Sprouting them is even better! Pulses are great additions, and even bases, to a solid ekkie diet.
3) a bit more beans! Not too much, they are protein rich.
4) more grains: spelt, buckwheat, quinoa, brown rice, etc. to name a few. Sprouting along with the pulses increases nutritional value.

Hope this helps! You might benefit feom feeding your bird chop for meals to increase the nutritional diveristyprofile of the diet.

 

[azflcowboy]

Thanks foe the detailed reply!

I love that you care for your boy so much! Good news is I think we can fix this - or at least put a great dent!

seems that You seem to have grasped that eclectus is a unique species with special dietary requirements. And you’ve now seen a common problem we have: a lot of times the eclectus community is more abreast of husbandry and diet than vets are. Shocking, I know!

To begin with, I recommend reviewing this sticky thread that addresses eclectus diet:

Eclectus diet do’s and donts

In your case, youve got a great foundation, just need to build up a bit more. Here are the changes i recommend you make:

DONT!
1) dont feed chicken or egg anymore. Some birds can take them, but eclectus are particularly prone to issues around atherosclerosis and high cholesterol. Since your boy has these issues you need to cut out some of the things that dramatically make it worse: these meat products.

2) dont feed too many fruits. This is a hormonal control issue more than anything, but these fruits can reqlly trigger hormonal issues (im assumig your afternoons are an assault of fruit, but im not clear from how you worded it).

DO!
overall you need more fiber, and greater nutritional diversity.
1) add broccoli and cauliflower to the diet. These are very calcium rich.
2) add more pulses - lentils, chickpeas, mung beans, adzuki beans. Sprouting them is even better! Pulses are great additions, and even bases, to a solid ekkie diet.
3) a bit more beans! Not too much, they are protein rich.
4) more grains: spelt, buckwheat, quinoa, brown rice, etc. to name a few. Sprouting along with the pulses increases nutritional value.

Hope this helps! You might benefit feom feeding your bird chop for meals to increase the nutritional diveristyprofile of the diet.

Hello Chris
Thank you so much for the information you shared with this old disabled veteran who loves all of God's Creatures especially Hero Dogs (my k-9 Duchess) and my Eclectus Parrot (Moses)
I printed your message to me and my wife and I will start today working on your advice
I also researched your other posts concerning our beloved Eclectus Parrots
now one more question?
What is you advice concerning annual check ups and blood tests?
I took my guy Moses to 2 different vets and each one traumatized Moses after taking blood, luckily he recovered in 2 days.
The last vet in spring hill florida said she would gas Moses the next time.
hmmmm what do you think of gasing to draw blood and she said she would clip fly feathers and trim nails...
Thank you again my friend
and God Bless
Larry Kiceina

PS i see the moderator corrected my duplicate messages to you,thanks again

 

[HeatherG]

My Lucy needed to be anaesthetized to get blood. She was very very old, but she was fine afterwards. It was certainly less stressful then watching the vet try unsuccessfully to draw blood from the jugular.

 

[chris-md]

Youre certainly very welcome!

Annnual check ups, in regular times, are so important. I like annual bloodwork, personally. But when starting out, my good friend @SailBoat - who my vet once upon a time agreed with his statement - recommends doing blood draws at different times if year, maybe every 15 months instead of 12, so that you can get baselines for how chemistry changes over the year, the.n compare subsequent vet visits to those baselines.

Your boy has health issues so bloodwork its basically mandatory to monitor his status. A good vet shouldn’t need to anesthetize your bird to draw blood. But birds are undergoing surgery so often that its not a priority for my concern if you DO want to go that route.

 

[HeatherG]

Some species, like Quakers, are notoriously hard to draw blood via a jugular stick. I think its reasonable to lightly anaesthetize them before a blood draw. I would also argue that some birds are so distressed by handling that this method may be easier on them overall.

 

[azflcowboy]

My Lucy needed to be anaesthetized to get blood. She was very very old, but she was fine afterwards. It was certainly less stressful then watching the vet try unsuccessfully to draw blood from the jugular.

Hello Heather I am hearing different opinions about the anaesthetize, my 2nd new vet just said gased . I asked what kind of gas and I could not quite understand what kind she was talking about, however she said it only puts them asleep for about 5 minutes...so i am leaning towards that because i am afraid that my Moses may not be as loving as he was before the procedure. The both times the 2 different vtes tried to take blood he was traumatized for 2 days after
I do think the annual blood tests are important. Do you agree? My Moses was 3 in June.

thank you again and God Bless
Larry Kiceina and Moses
PS he loves my retired k-9 Duchess and they are 2 of a kind Moses will say Duchess "Want to go for a car ride" as my Duchess is very used to going for a ride in the van i bought just for her everyday. She is 13 years old and her hips are in very bad shape, I bought the van just so she walk up the ramp i made for her, as she cannot jump in the pickup or my wife's SUV thank you again

 

[HeatherG]

My guess is that it's isofluorane gas but Im not sure. My opinion is that if handling is SO hard on your bird this might actually be easier on him as fewer stress chemicals will be released. Kind of like giving a little kid medication before dentistry because its so hard on them to understand what is happening.

 

[azflcowboy]

Youre certainly very welcome!

Annnual check ups, in regular times, are so important. I like annual bloodwork, personally. But when starting out, my good friend @SailBoat - who my vet once upon a time agreed with his statement - recommends doing blood draws at different times if year, maybe every 15 months instead of 12, so that you can get baselines for how chemistry changes over the year, the.n compare subsequent vet visits to those baselines.

Your boy has health issues so bloodwork its basically mandatory to monitor his status. A good vet shouldn’t need to anesthetize your bird to draw blood. But birds are undergoing surgery so often that its not a priority for my concern if you DO want to go that route.

Hello Thank you I will keep that in mind when i schedule the next lab tests
Unfortunately in rural florida (Citrus County) i may have to travel with Moses to the Univ of Florida Vet school or maybe Ocala or Orlando Florida. Thank you again Chris
Larry Kiceina

 

[azflcowboy]

My Lucy needed to be anaesthetized to get blood. She was very very old, but she was fine afterwards. It was certainly less stressful then watching the vet try unsuccessfully to draw blood from the jugular.

Hello and Thank you for helping
God Bless
Larry

 

[RockyNRob]

Hello I am a new guy
My vet advised Moses calcium level was too low:
Calcium 7.3 range should be = 8.1 - 11.9 mg/dL
The last vet saId his cholestrol was too high and i should stop giving walnut bits as a treat in training Moses
She advised i could crush a tums capsule to give to Moses. I did not like that idea as to how do i know if Moses is getting too much or too little calcium.
She agreed and said try Zupreen Pelets that are for breeding parrots. I searched and could not find a Zupreen food with extra calcium for breeding or laying egg parrots
Anyone give me advise as to how to increase the 7.3 calcium rating plus making sure Moses does not over dose calcium.
She said Calcium deficiency could lead to seziures.
She tried to take blood from Moses and failed to get enough quantity for blood count lab check. I did not like the idea of her using a young inexperienced tech to draw the blood and I told her so after they finished. I do not think I will be going back to her.
We live in Citrus County Florida (rural small county) and I cannot find a good aviary vet. I am planning to check out Ocala and Gainesville or even Orland
here are other results which she said she likes to see these low values hmmmmmm
10/20/22 (Order Received) 10/20/22 7:40 AM (Last Updated) TEST RESULT REFERENCE VALUE
Glucose a 277 216 - 396 mg/dL BUN 1 1 - 4 mg/dL
Uric Acid 1.6 2.0 - 11.0 mg/dL L
Phosphorus 1.7 5.6 - 8.0 mg/dL L
Calcium 7.3 8.1 - 11.9 mg/dL L Calcium:
Phosphorus Ratio 4.3 Sodium Insufficient sample for complete analysis.
Potassium Insufficient sample for complete analysis.
Chloride Insufficient sample for complete analysis. Total Protein 3.4 3.2 - 4.3 g/dL Albumin 1.3 1.1 - 2.0 g/dL Globulin 2.1 2.0 - 3.3 g/dL Albumin: Globulin Ratio 0.6 0.5 - 1.8 AST 245 144 - 339 U/L GGT 0 2 - 6 U/L L Cholesterol 198 100 - 261 mg/dL Triglyceride 114 mg/dL Amylase 421 562 - 684 U/L L Creatine Kinase 141 132 - 410 U/L Bile Acids Preprandial / Random b 15.8 30.0 - 110.0 µmol/L L a Panel performed on diluted specimen.
Please assist if possible
Thank you and God Bless His Creations
Lawrence Kiceina

nuts are high in fat which can lead to strokes and birds and avian vets and drs in general all have their own guide they follow for what should and shouldnt be. As long as your bird is happy playful or grouchy I wouldnt change to much other then nuts only for a occasional treat

 

[chris-md]

nuts are high in fat which can lead to strokes and birds and avian vets and drs in general all have their own guide they follow for what should and shouldnt be. As long as your bird is happy playful or grouchy I wouldnt change to much other then nuts only for a occasional treat

To conform to proper eclectus dietary requirements he needs to make significant changes.

 

[HeatherG]

Honestly I think a Tums would be a fine calcium supplement.