Ekkies and Beginners

[WingsUpNorth]

Hi all,

This is a sort of follow-on to my thread asking for species suggestions for my hueband and I.

Ekkies have always been a personal favourite (male being preferred) but we had recently taken them off our list because they seem to be sensitive to environment (i.e. humidity) and they seem to be problematic as they age in a lot of cases.

Nevertheless, I was getting recommendations for Ekkies on my thread, to suit our lifestyle and "wish list".

So it got me wondering, why aren't Eclectus on more "apartment bird" and "family bird" or "beginner bird" lists?

I would like to discuss the Eclectus' suitability for beginners from a BEHAVIOUR standpoint. This is: aggression, screaming, plucking, pair vs. flock bonding, etc.

With the utmost respect, I am really hoping that this thread doesn't become about the complicated elements of an Ekkie's sensitive diet, etc. and why those things make Ekkies unsuitable for new owners. Obviously they are valid concerns, but my husband and I are intelligent professionals, we are experienced with animal care (dogs, horses) and have research skills that can keep up with the best of 'em, so if BEHAVIOURALLY an Ekkie would work for us, we will take care of him as properly as any expert.

Pionus and Meyer's were two of our "beginner friendly" choices but are these parrots truly more stable, non-aggressive, and beginner suitable than Eclectus? It does seem there are folks in our situation (young professional couple, active lifestyle, no kids) that have an Ekkie as a first/only bird and they are doing well.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Mayden]

Can't help you on the ekkie front. But I know many who think they are fabulous birds, so good luck if you do decide on one!

 

[mtdoramike]

I guess any bird can be a beginner bird depending on how responsible a parrot owner is, how committed they are to researching that particular bird. But this is as long as you get a bird from a good breeder that has been hand fed and properly socialized. I've always been of the adage, the bigger the bird the bigger the beak and worse the bite will be not if but when he or she decides to bite. No matter how tame a bird is, it's still an animal and like humans can have an off day and not want to be bothered. So they communicate their intentions with their beak.

An Eclectus diet isn't really that much different than other birds diets as long as you reserach it and get it down, it ain't that hard. Now, if you live in a condo or apartment, Eclectus's can and do vocal LOUDLY. I have had to put mine in time out twice today because he wants to screech. My Senegal will get him going because she is a little instigator.

Meyers & Pionus are a bit less noisy and are smaller birds. But they can and do have their roudy moments.

Do yourself a HUGE favor, go onto You Tube and type in Noisy birds or screaming birds and even screaming Eclectus. This will give you an idea of how noisy each particular species of bird is that you are looking at. They have just about every species of screaming birds. BUT MAKE SURE YOU TURN YOUR SPEAKER AND SOUND WAY UP TO GET THE FULL EFFECT. This way, it will make them sound like they are in the same room with you and they may very well be sooner or later if you decide on one.

My home when from being quiet as a church mouse 8 months ago to chirps, squawks, screams, squeals and chattering. I sometimes look back a the fond memories of quiet solitude and ask myself WHAT WAS I THINKING. But then I go over and they talk to me and give me the love that I was missing.

 

[mtdoramike]

Can't help you on the ekkie front. But I know many who think they are fabulous birds, so good luck if you do decide on one!

They are fabulous birds and in my opinion one of the smartest birds. But I still wouldn't consider one for an apartment or condo.

 

[pawsfoot]

I am by no means an expert, but I have had my Ekkie for a little over a year now and before we bought our home a couple months ago we lived in an apartment. We had no problem with our Ekkie being loud and I think every bird is individual on that front. I have read and been told that they are quieter than most birds their size. Now Ezmerelda definitely has days where she is in time out more than she is out, but most days she will play all day and follow my husband from room to room.
Also if it helps any this Ekkie was the first parrot my husband and I ever owned. I think she is a wonderful bird and really if you eat a healthy diet yourself I don't think the diet is that hard to accomodate. Any bird can have behavioral issues if they don't get enough attention or have enough toys and stimulation, but those accomodations are going to have to be made for any bird you plan on having.
Any bird can bite, but I Ezmerelda onlys puts her beak on me to help herslef step up and it is never a hard bite (unless I am trimming her nails, which she hates).
Anyway sorry for the long post, but I vote for an Ekkie. They are wonderful to have.

 

[Dragonwyke]

i have always heard the term "beginner bird" but i'm not really sure what that means. no bird should be considered a "beginner bird" they all live a relatively long time, so it requires a long term commitment to get any kind of bird. the shortest lifespan is 10-15yrs for lovebirds and finches, sometimes longer if well cared for. they all require specific diets, not just seed or pellet, but fruits and vegies too, and that includes softbills, and the females all require special levels of calcium for egg production whether you're breeding or not. they'll lay eggs if there's a male involved or not. their bodies don't care. so a "beginner bird" doesn't really exist. they ALL require specialized care that doesn't come w/having dogs and cats or ferrets or what-not. tho, those animals all have their own special requirements as well.

as far as noise levels? well, noise is relative. i live in a big house w/out close neighbors, and i don't notice noise because i grew up in house w/6 brothers and sisters, dogs, cats and birds all the time. i've always had animals in my house. a quiet day is when i can hear the tv over the dull roar in my house. so a hollering eclectus is just one more voice. it's not noise. my husband on the other hand, has to go and hide out once in awhile because the noise level can make him dizzy. so it's relative.

everything depends on where and how you live, what you're willing to commit to, and for how long. that's what it comes down to.

DW

 

[SamanthaJane]

I was in the exact same position as you. I think as long as you do your research and have a clear understanding of what it is realistically like to live with the bird you choose then it can work. I too wanted a beginner/only bird and I just did as much research I could on all my favorites and picked the one I thought I could handle and enjoy the most despite its label of "beginner/expert bird".

 

[WingsUpNorth]

Well I must say it is refreshing to hear Ekkies may be back on our list. From what I understand, while they can occasionally be loud, they aren't constantly so. So, shorter term loudness. That's fine by us.

Can anyone speak a little more about Ekkies vs more traditional "beginner birds" like Pionus and Meyer's? Personality/behaviour wise, please.

And yes the term "starter" any animal (dogs included) doesn't really rub us the right way either. So we are limiting our choices to the species known to be good for novice owners (i.e. hardier, not known to bite, generally stable even after maturity) BUT species we still like and would enjoy as our only bird for the next several decades.

 

[Pedro]

IMO Eclectus are no harder to look after than a Budgie & I have both. As regards to noise i own 10 ATM. Most of the time you wouldn't know i have them. Other than the occasional alarm call. But for the most part they talk. My birds are testement to positive reforcement. I have never had a bite from my males, however i have had the odd bite from the girls but i think i have faired pretty well as i have only been bitten 4 times in 10 years.

Eclectus don't need the attention to keep them friendly like a lot of people think, they love to be close by their people flock & hang out. Mine will just stay on their play stand all day if i let them. If you have a noisy household of course your eclectus would compete with loud music, screaming kids & so on.

First & foremost & i think this is more important than anything else, research Parrot Behavior & how to deal with a problem before it turns into a bad behavior. I think if you have educated yourself in this area & understand your bird, set yourself up for success & everything else will just fall into place.

I am so over people labling parrots, when if they only realise that they themselves teach their parrots to be naughty birds by not understanding them. As far as i am concerned it is never the parrot behaving badly its the owner. Biting & screaming is a learned behavior.

In all my years of selecting parrots for my collection I have never done any research at all. However i do a lot of reading about behavior & why parrots do some of the things they do. I then select my parrot & if or when i see some unacceptable behavior i know how to stop it before it becomes a problem. Because i have educated myself in this area i very rarely have any undesireable behavior at all.

 

[WingsUpNorth]

Thank you Pedro!

We have all the great books, namely "The Beak Book" and "Guide to a Well Behaved Parrot" and of course there are others. We love the research phase of this decision, which is why it has lasted so long!

 

[Pedro]

There is a lot of free advice on the net as well. Like GoodBirdInc & Sally's Blanchard's Companion Parrots. I love how easy they make things look.

So it doesn't really matter what parrot you decide on i am sure your armed with enough info to have a very well behaved parrot.

If you decide on an eclectus & are lucky enough to meet the breeders & your bird, get them to show you how to handle the bird. I think if the bird feels comfortable with a calm carer to begin with it's a lot easier when you take your bird home. That first 24 hours you take a new bird home & how you let it settle in is so important.

 

[mrob]

I cant speak for all eccies just mine.
Hes a male, young, not at the hormonal stage yet, but has been an absolute dream.
He has never once bitten me - the only time he has expressed his displeasure is a single, high pitched shriek that only lasts a second, and that was when i sat on him by accident (dont ask. it was awful. he was fine though!)

As for behaviour, he is a great big mummys boy. My fiancee calls him a sook! He is very cuddly - not so much that he wants a scratch or demanding but so that he will snuggle up on my chest under my chin, mutter sweet nothings and just generally be gorgeous...

He is very people focused but also independent - happy to just hang out in the same room. Very playful - growls and attacks his toys, clumsy on the ground but very acrobatic on his playstand, generally a clown!
Not so much a one person bird but a bit wary of my fiancee - hes a fisherman so not around much. LOVES my mother...and will happily go to anyone.

Very sweet natured. Loves to cuddle up in bed and watch movies with me.
EXTREMELY easy to train. Potty trained in a couple of hours. I have 3 step children (5,7,10) ho pick him up, cuddle him, majke him play basketball for hours on end etc etc and he is amazingly gentle and LOVES them. He even seeks them out to play. this is one TOLERANT bird. He happily shares his cage with a cockateil.

Doesnt scream just for the hell of it - will flock call if i leave the room and he knows im gettig his breakfast. Diet really isnt that hard to manage at all. Its pretty straightforward with the right research. He hardly ever screams, but he does talk. A LOT> monologues that can last for up to an hour but it doesnt bother me at all.....

All in all my experience with them sees them as great birds, quite independent and nowhere near as emotionaly dependant as a cockatoo or even my cockateil! With the right research I think they are great birds for anyone - as long as you are committed and start as you mean to continue!

Right now he is hiding behind my laptop screen then sticking his head up and yelling PEEKABOO! GOOD BOY! before hiding again.....makes me laugh every time =)

 

[MikeyTN]

With my ekkies, we got them on my partner's B-day 3/11/11

Our ekkies would be upset IF we don't take them out, they would carry on until we do. They love to be close to us! They're very inquisitive and likes to the center of the attention. Noise wise, they're very quiet birds, they make up for it by making one heck of a mess when they eat. In my years of bird ownership, they're one of my favorite parrots that I've ever owned. I never realize how fun they can be and how intelligent they are. At first I was scared of the diet requirement, but it works into our regular routine and not as problematic as I thought. We wanted to get them for years and when we were ready, instead of getting my dream bird which was a Moluccan, I got these guys instead and I don't regret it one bit. They're so quiet most of the time, you don't even realize they're there. They would leave their cage to crawl onto me and rest on my shoulders and yap at me....Gracie, my girl loves to ride on my partner's shoulders while they're doing house work together. While JoJo stays with me mainly while I clean and do other stuffs. They do pick who they want to be around, BUT when only one person is here, they're not as picky, if we're both around, they will pick! They bond with colony not with each other or necessarily one person bird. Which that's what we've read, to me that's true to a certain extent. Like I've said if we're both home, they choose who to go to.

 

[JensFlock]

My ekkie is the most wonderful bird I have (don't tell the other 3 I said that!!!). Of course, he CAN make noise, since he's a good size bird, but he really doesn't. I am in an apartment, and I have no problems with the noise.
Personality-wise, he couldn't be any more perfect if I created him myself.
I think the reason people say they're not "beginner birds" is because of the diet. Some people might just think they can throw in pellets and seeds and it will be ok, and that's not the case.
They can be sensitive to new things and be scared of noisy households, but mine has been exposed to so many changes (on purpose) that he accepts everything with interest.

 

[JensFlock]

Oh, by the way, my eclectus is a male. I have heard that the females have a different personality and that males are a little more easy going and less hormonal. I don't know from experience, that's just what I've been told by friends that have or breed birds.
Maybe someone else here can tell you more about the difference.

 

[WingsUpNorth]

Thanks all, really appreciating the feedback so far!

What of Ekkies in apartments? Our condo is very modern and soundproof, and being downtown (sirens, etc.) people generally are not sensitive to noise or else they'd move for other reasons having nothing to do with a neighbour's bird. But I suppose incessant screaming, or shrillness every hour on the hour type thing would upset neighbours. As would not settling down for the night. But anything up to the level of say a puppy barking or a baby crying here and there is fine. Thoughts?

Someone suggested playing a recording of bird screaming at full volume to see if it'd be a problem. Great idea, eh!

 

[Pim]

Thanks all, really appreciating the feedback so far!

What of Ekkies in apartments? Our condo is very modern and soundproof, and being downtown (sirens, etc.) people generally are not sensitive to noise or else they'd move for other reasons having nothing to do with a neighbour's bird. But I suppose incessant screaming, or shrillness every hour on the hour type thing would upset neighbours. As would not settling down for the night. But anything up to the level of say a puppy barking or a baby crying here and there is fine. Thoughts?

Someone suggested playing a recording of bird screaming at full volume to see if it'd be a problem. Great idea, eh!

It's hard to say, any bird can be loud and make random screeches that neighbours might hear, they only types of birds I would never reccomend for appartments are sun/jenday/nanday conures and cockatoos/galahs, they are LOUD... I think louder then any other birds. Sun Conure screams are so high pitched they hurt your ears, and cockatoos are so loud it rattles the inside of your brain!

As long as your bird is well trained to amuse it's self while you're gone then it wont scream for no reason constantly. It may still let out a screech or yell for a few seconds while it's playing if it's having fun, or if something scares it, but birds shouldn't scream all day until you get home if they have lots of toys to occupy them.

I don't know about other peoples ekkies but mine sleeps all day... he is active when we get home but a big lazy bum when we're gone, guess we got lucky lol. He has lots of toys too. Just prefers to sleep lol.

As for boy or girl ekkies I would suggest a boy, girls aren't labled as moody and less of a good pet for no reason... they stereotypes are mostly true and they don't make as good pets. The boys are big sooks and less moody.

my final advice would be not to over research and over read forums... lol. my first ever bird was a lorikeet, people would reccomend I get a budgie or lovebird but in my opinion they are boring and I haven't met a nice one, so I went with a lorikeet, yes I made a few mistakes but he was amazing and I loved him. I got a ekkie next against other poeples advice again saying I should work my way up a big bird and he is the best pet ive ever had. I've said it once and I'll say it again... lol. people put their birds on a pedestal, and it doesn't work out for the average joe to treat their pet like a little feathery god. Birds, as well as other pets, need to know their place in your flock/pack, if you let your bird do what ever it wants, let it scream "because birds scream in the wild" let him climb up on your shoulder, let him fly at your head, then it's going to assume it's the dominant one and can start biting etc.

I treat my parrots like I would a puppy or a kitten, with love but also dicipline. If my ekkie was naughty, he would get a time out in his cage for a few mins and would not get any treats or cuddles. his cage is fun, but it shouldnt be a place a bird would rather spend then with you. so it shouldnt be crammed with 100 toys.

 

[MikeyTN]

I disagree with Pim just a little bit there! About the females ekkies not being a good pet! Mine can be moody yes, but she's just as wonderful as my boy. She talks and whistles, can be quite comical! She loves to come out to hang out just as much as my boy. They yap through out the day more then you would realize since no one is around. There's been times when I am home all day being down stairs I can hear mine yapping upstairs. The only thing with the females you have to watch for is during breeding season, when she goes through her hormonal stage....But even the boys can be just as bad!!!

People might not have suggested a ekkie as a first pet parrot because of their diet specific needs that a lot of people can not provide. As long as you can keep up with their diet needs, it's all right!

Sure thing ekkies can let out a high screech a time or two, but they're parrots! I consider mine very quiet birds as they have no comparison to my other birds. I've got a Macaw, a Cockatoo, 4 Cockatiels, 2 Canaries, 3 Parakeets, and 4 Baby Cockatiels. I used to have conures too, one of the species that I can not stand the scream from. I had over 150 birds at one point when I used to raise them. Ekkie's noise is nothing and I do mean nothing compared to all the ones I've had before.

JoJo did scream today when a friend visited me. But I think he's more on high alert since they don't see people come over very often. Gracie will attack if you stick your hand in the cage because your a stranger to her. But to us, they're wonderful little angels!!!

 

[mygirl]

Not true about the females not making good pets!! we only have Mylah and she is not a breeder and never will be she is our "baby" she is fully toilet trained never poos unless she is in her cage or on her stand, she never squawks the only thing she does, that would be really annoying to neighbours is barks like a dog all the time....with the hormone side of things the way i look at it. its no difference to a female dog or cat going on heat i have never heard her doing the eccy call i really don't think she knows that she can do it??

 

[WingsUpNorth]

Not true about the females not making good pets!! we only have Mylah and she is not a breeder and never will be she is our "baby" she is fully toilet trained never poos unless she is in her cage or on her stand, she never squawks the only thing she does, that would be really annoying to neighbours is barks like a dog all the time....with the hormone side of things the way i look at it. its no difference to a female dog or cat going on heat i have never heard her doing the eccy call i really don't think she knows that she can do it??

Hehe, well when a dog gets hormonal, they don't bite you... So it is a little different.

With respect to diet, say we were on the road (an Ekkie should enjoy travel if exposed from a young age right?) can we "simplify" the diet for a couple of weeks or will this be detrimental to the Ekkie's health? For instance, up the pellets and reduce the complexity of the fruit/veggie/sprout component to make serving meals on the road a little simpler?