Emergency!!! Need help

[Alembic772]

Hello everyone. I am writing this in a panic. Please see my other recent posts to see our conure family.

Last night, Kylo, one of our female black capped conures, started to hobble over and walk very funny. By the end of the night (2am) she could barely walk at all. She was falling off perches, and wanted to just lay flat in a food bowl or on one of us.

We were very emotional as she was struggling to move and so we propped her up on a comfy t shirt and made sure she had food and water. I didn’t expect her to make it through the night. This morning when we woke up, we looked in the Rubbermaid and she was awake and eating her millet. She still can barely move her legs and her feet and hind quarters. We rushed to find an avian vet and of course all the avian specialist are off today. We went to one place and they gave her x rays and an ultra sound. The found fluid in her abdomen, no broken bones, and that she seems to not have muscular control of her legs and hind quarters. They told us they could keep her overnight and the specialists would see her in the morning. We are worried that she may not make it through the night.

We are now at another vet having them look at her and the results from the first vet. Does anyone have any experiences like this ? Any help is desperately appreciated!

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[Alembic772]

And I know there is chocolate Frosted Flakes in the background. I no way have we ever let them near this or have any.


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[noodles123]

1.I am SO SORRY you are going through this and I wish I could help more...VERY smart to get her to an avian vet AS SOON AS POSSIBLE (as you know).

Have you felt her abdomen? Any swelling?
Has she been eating normally until today (you can tell if she is alone but in a group that is harder..)
Have you weighed her (weight up or down?)
Droppings?

Make sure she is warmer than usual (not baking and NOT with a heater that may contain teflon/ptfe/pfcs/pfoa on the coils---this is common, as it is often found in things like blow dryers as well)--Some birds are more impacted than others initially (especially the smaller ones)

Try to keep her calm and quite and maybe a little darker than normal (I would never suggest ever making thing darker for a bird unless they were having a medical issue...and even then, only for a short period).

Has she been tested for diseases?

What is her diet like?<--- not trying to stress you with a bunch of questions, but sometimes high fat diets can lead to fatty cysts etc and if a cyst were to be pushing on a nerve, it could possibly create serious issues--but again I AM NOT a vet...so take what I say with the tiniest grain of salt ever.

In the event that the worst happens (God forbid) you must take her for a necroscopy...and I pray that does not happen, but if she has a contagious illness, you need to know exactly what it is because other birds can carry and spread deadly illness without symptoms. You have other birds in the house so you NEED to know exactly what is going on here....

Has she been playing with any metal objects not made of stainless steel? Metal poisoning can cause neurological issues..so can certain viruses...

Does she have any rope toys or anything that she chews on? Any happy huts (those are THE WORST THINGS EVER for hormones and blockages)...I am no vet....just throwing out possibilities but I wish I had better answers...

I wonder about a cyst or a blockage..or something more systemic, like a virus or organ issue......Did they do bloodwork?

I have no clue what could be wrong...I will be thinking of you guys...
I know how scary it is to have a very sick bird and just know that you are doing the best that you can-- it sounds like you are doing an EXCELLENT job of following up on all of this...

 

[Alembic772]

Abdomen feels a little abnormal now because she hasn’t eaten Much today. I did give her 7ml handfeeding formula and she ate a lot of millet and her pellet mix on the way to the second vet.

Her weight last night when I noticed was 62 grams. Which is her normal weight since she weaned.

Cooking yes. With cookeare that are all safe around birds.

Air freshener. None sprayed. Those plug in wall ones but not anywhere near birds. A candle that is scented but again not anywhere near birds.


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[Alembic772]

The first vet was not comfortable taking blood and fluid samples. We are waiting for the second vet to give us more detail.


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[noodles123]

If you can get her to eat things between now and then, do so...foods that contain fluid if she isn't drinking..
If giving formula, make sure it is for parrots and not humans, as human formula and baby food is often fortified with too many harmful vitamins.
SOME human babyfood is okay, as long as it isn't fortified and doesn't contain a ton of added vitamin C (Beach Nut jarred baby-food (brand) often has simple foods that could be appealing to a sick bird, but always read the label...some contain salt, avocado, and added vitamin C---vitamin C is not something you want to give a lot of).

I edited my post above after you read it-- sorry! Feel free to look back... Wish I could help more...

You need to get rid of those plug-ins. They are totally toxic within the same house and they can technically cause issues with liver/kidneys/central nervous system (as well as respiratory issues) in pets in general (birds are even more susceptible to issues with these) .. Remember-- even the things we cannot smell can still harm them... They are full of harmful chemicals (VOCs). My vet's hold-message when you call explicitly discusses how dangerous plug-ins are...no scented products/chemicals/oil burners/plug-ins/air fresheners or chemical cleaners in the home...unless avian safe (very very important).

I doubt they are the cause of your issue...but get rid of them and anything else scented as soon as you are home (and before then if someone can remove them for you).

 

[Alembic772]

Second vet said he believes she has an inflammatory condition that is causes the paralysis. She responds to pain on her feet and vent, which he says is a good sign that she can recover. They don’t feel blood work is necessary at this time because she is younger bird and no signs of cysts or tumors on x ray or ultrasound.

She’s acting like herself to be honest except the lack of movement.


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[noodles123]

What? Like a virus?? I would probe further on that for sure..that is EXTREMELY vague and not very reassuring, given the lack of testing..
You need to get her to an avian vet...
While it could be an "inflammatory condition", those don't just pop up....there is a cause and you need to know what that is...

Where are you located roughly, if you don't mind me asking?

Not testing further with such severe symptoms is absolutely insane of that vet (in my humble opinion)..Now, if they are wanting you to get her to an avian vet tomorrow or something, that is different, but I pray that is not the final/accepted diagnosis...

Younger birds should still have blood-work every 3 years...minimum....EVEN healthy ones...Now, if this were coming from a certified avian vet who felt that she wasn't able to sustain the blood loss, I would understand that, but it sounds like this person is just guessing...again, if you are taking her to an avian specialist in the morning, then they can do the diagnostics...but don't just take that diagnosis...

If a kid just randomly couldn't walk one day and the doctor said, "well, he can move his toes and he responded a bit when I pushed his butt, so I think he has an inflammatory condition that is causing paralysis..." I would have A LOT to say about that...especially if they said "eh, he's young, so even though he can't move properly, we won't do any further testing." Again, there is a root cause and that is the most important thing for you to find out right now (not just for this bird, but for the other bird in your house).

I just want to emphasize that birds are prey animals, so they are VERY good at hiding illness until things get very bad...Showing signs of illness in the wild gets them killed....So, your bird is showing some very very serious signs of illness that would most certainly get her killed in the wild...If I sound annoyed, it is at your vet and not you, because this isn't your fault, but please seek out the advice of an avian specialist. The answer you got is unacceptable and unverified. Birds don't get super sick like that and just randomly recover without serious intervention in 99% of cases....and even if she does recover, she could be spreading a very serious illness to others, so you cannot accept not knowing more with another bird in the house.

And again-- get rid of the plug-ins and anything chemical/scented in the same house with a bird unless it is avian safe.

 

[Alembic772]

We are in Spring Hill Florida. That’s north of Takpa by 40 minutes. All the AAV people we called today were not in the office.

We are mentally and emotionally wiped out right now. We have her home with us. She is eating and moving as best as she can. She even is trying to step up but can’t. We are going to give her the anti inflammatory and see how that goes tonight. Regardless of anything no one was going to help us today as no specialist (AAV) were available.

They (both vets) believe this was caused by some type of trauma. Most likely from a fall.

We still have an appointment in the morning with the specialist. We are talking about what to do.


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[wrench13]

Sending healing thoughts to Kylo!

 

[noodles123]

We are in Spring Hill Florida. That’s north of Takpa by 40 minutes. All the AAV people we called today were not in the office.

We are mentally and emotionally wiped out right now. We have her home with us. She is eating and moving as best as she can. She even is trying to step up but can’t. We are going to give her the anti inflammatory and see how that goes tonight. Regardless of anything no one was going to help us today as no specialist (AAV) were available.

They (both vets) believe this was caused by some type of trauma. Most likely from a fall.

We still have an appointment in the morning with the specialist. We are talking about what to do.


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Sorry- didn't mean to pile it on, just shocked that they wouldn't do further testing, given the situation. A bird can slam into something and basically bruise part of their spine, which would cause that sort of thing, but in the future, do consider blood-work (if only for a baseline)..Hope she gets better...
The specialist should hopefully shed some more light on the issue.

Again- sorry if I seemed caustic---wasn't my intention...I think you guys are doing a good job...just get frustrated when non-avian specialists make general statements, because it seems to happen a lot and it freaks me out--but the whole trauma thing is definitely possible-I just think you need to get confirmation.

 

[Alembic772]

I am not taking anything in a bad way. We have seven birds. Five conures, one caique and one Solomon island male eclectus. This girl conure we have raised from 4-5 weeks old. Same with the caique, the eclectus, and two more of the conures. It’s hard on us watching her like this.

I am going to make some calls tomorrow as I am off from work. All this last night and today was also while I was trying to work. It just takes a large toll on me and I get very emotional over one of little feathered babies being like this. My son said she did jump down out of the cage last night and we think this could have been when the trauma happened. This is also why I am not a fan of clipping their wings.

She is here with us and her family. She is isolated away but they call for her and she answers. She is trying to step up as hard as she can on our fingers. She is trying to stand up. She is doing all it appears she can and she’s not screaming or acting like she is in pain. She is not biting anyone, only just using her beak to help herself try and step up. She is trying so hard and it’s heartbreaking. If I could take a video I would but I start crying watching her try so hard. She definitely is more spry tonight trying to move around. Calling for her sister.

We gave her the medicine, anti inflammatory. We fed her some handfeeding formula (Tropican, baby bird food not human food). She is eating her pellets and millet in the Rubbermaid we have her in the best she can. I gave her some sips of Gatorade to help with electrolytes.

Why is her read end paralyzed? Why can she sense pain there and reacts but yet can’t move it herself? We feel like horrible bird parents for this.


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[Alembic772]

This breaks my heart.


[ame="https://youtu.be/CegfLztJmwY"]YouTube[/ame]


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[noodles123]

Well, the good thing is, she can sit up and eat ...poor baby!

Wing clipping is very controversial (obviously)...I have seen birds who have it done in such a way that they glide down, rather than fall (it depends on how short they go etc)---so that may be an option in the future if you NEED to clip. I am not a huge expert on it, but family members with birds have had it done in such a way, so I know it's possible.

Again...I am thinking of you guys...Very stressful ...you are going the best you possibly can, and thankfully, despite all of this, she doesn't seem to be too miserable--hungry gal ha!

I sometimes watch a show called Bondi Vet on Youtube, and the man is NOT bird expert, but he did see a cockatiel with paralysis from a fall onto the kitchen floor and it was temporary...so do follow-up (for sure) but if she fell and x-rays looked good, it could be inflammation for sure...If when she hit the ground, everything kind of scrunched toward her head, there could be bruising and inflammation impacting nerves in her spine temporarily etc...which could impact other parts of her body...almost like a pinched nerve...(again, assuming this is fall-related and all of the scans etc were fine). I am not a vet, but that stuff can happen...not just to birds either.

Honestly, knowing there was a fall is a pretty big game-changer in terms of possibilities--and not necessarily for the worse either (given the fact that they did scans etc today and things looked okay--originally, I thought this just happened overnight without incident)...Not saying that the blood-work etc should be ruled out (because that is standard every 3 years in most avian clinics) BUT, fingers crossed for you guys.

Please keep us posted as to tomorrow's visit and her progress!!!!

I hope things improve and that you guys get some sleep.

 

[LaManuka]

Oh Kylo, you poor little sweetheart! I'm glad the anti-inflammatories are helping her a bit.

This may be totally unrelated to Kylo's issue, but my Val the budgie's pectoral muscles were paralysed after a visit to the vet where he had an injection of antibiotics. He would try to take off but hit our wooden floors rather hard and I'm quite sure he hurt his pecs and his keelbone even more in the process. It took a good week of rest all cooped up in his cage and Metacam before he was able to get enough strength in his muscles to get airborne again, so yes perhaps if Kylo has suffered a hard landing at some stage it may be causing her pain or some sort of temporary muscular paralysis.

You are doing everything you possibly can for her though and I hope you get better advice when you see the specialist. If it was me I'd be feeling like a lousy bird parent too but you definitely are not!

 

[noodles123]

I would definitely make her a little low-to-the-ground sleep area so that she doesn't end up trying to climb in the night on the cage walls and end up falling again in a failed attempt to perch...maybe move a perch super low to the ground and somehow quadrant off the rest without scaring her??Not sure how to do that, but you get the idea..I would also NOT leave an open water dish with her unsupervised overnight, as I am afraid she could lose her balance and fall in...

I am not saying she can't drink water...but if she did topple in, I don't know that she could regain her footing at this point.

 

[Alembic772]

She is not in a cage right now. She is in a Rubbermaid tub with pine shavings and a nice soft t shirt made into a nest for her. We have an extremely shallow water bowl and food dish with her and a spray of millet. She sleeps on the night stand right next to my head. The other conures we have call for her and she responds. She is definitely a fighter.


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[Alembic772]

Oh Kylo, you poor little sweetheart! I'm glad the anti-inflammatories are helping her a bit.

This may be totally unrelated to Kylo's issue, but my Val the budgie's pectoral muscles were paralysed after a visit to the vet where he had an injection of antibiotics. He would try to take off but hit our wooden floors rather hard and I'm quite sure he hurt his pecs and his keelbone even more in the process. It took a good week of rest all cooped up in his cage and Metacam before he was able to get enough strength in his muscles to get airborne again, so yes perhaps if Kylo has suffered a hard landing at some stage it may be causing her pain or some sort of temporary muscular paralysis.

You are doing everything you possibly can for her though and I hope you get better advice when you see the specialist. If it was me I'd be feeling like a lousy bird parent too but you definitely are not!

They gave her Metacam too. Let’s hope she will recover. Even if not 100 percent some would still make it easier for her. She is not giving up. That is for sure.


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[Scott]

So sorry to see Kylo in a mysterious state of partial paralysis. Wish I had answers or even a hunch. Seems you are a bit north of Tampa, here are a few fairly local board certified avian vets:

https://www.aav.org/members/?id=22941390
https://www.aav.org/members/Default.asp?id=22940351
https://www.aav.org/members/Default.asp?id=22942285#

Hopefully the issue is temporary paralysis that will resolve over a short period of time. Please keep us updated!

In case the links drop out, use this search engine: https://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
From drop-down menus, select United States, degree = ABVP (Avian practice) and enter desired starting address info.

 

[Alembic772]

We searched the AAV yesterday and called all of them. No avian specialists were in the area. We tried almost the entire list. And it was frustrating because it seemed like it was treated like because she is a smaller inexpensive bird that it wasn’t anyone’s emergency.

Good news is we have an appointment now at 11:15 with a certified AAV vet. I called another place this morning and told them our story. The front desk opened up a spot for us.

She is more alert this morning and was trying to pull herself out of her Rubbermaid tub. She was flock calling to her sister and responding back to her. We are keeping the others away from her. But you can see she wants to get back to her family. I gave her about 2ml of fluids and 7ml of handfeeding formula. She also ate all night long as I had her on my nightstand and could her chewing her pellets and food.

Here is a video from this morning before I hand fed her.

[ame="https://youtu.be/Y5QWE75JEnQ"]YouTube[/ame]


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