Enriching my bird's diet whith pellets - which to chose?

[Smaragdeidechse]

I know that there are a lot of threads like this one out there and you guys get those questions daily, but I would appreciate your help with this very much .
So, I would love to enrich my bird’s diet a bit by feeding pellets additional to her current food. Right now, I feed her a seed mix and fresh greeneries. Unfortunately, she’s not a big fan of vegetables and fruit and barley touches them, but we are working on that. To add additional diversity to her diet I would like to introduce pellets to her. That said, it’s quite hard to find pellets where I live, and they are kind of expensive because traditionally birds get seed mixes plus fresh greens. The only brand I was able to by in-store was NutriBird but honestly, I don’t like them very much: they just smell super sweet and artificial, and I don’t want Lemon to eat something like that .

So, I’ve started looking online and those are the brands that are available and the cheapest I could get them excl. shipping:

• Wisbroek Low Fait Daily (5,80/kg)
• Wisbroek Fruit Blend Daily (6,90/kg)
• ZuPreem Natural Medium (9,15€/kg)
• TOP’s Parakeet Mini (15,45€/kg)
• Harrison Adult Lifetime Fine (22,50€/kg)
• Lafeber Gourmet Pellets Tropical Fruit (22,80€/kg)

I would just love to hear your recommendations and thoughts on those regarding quality, shelf life and price-performance ratio .

 

[BirdyBee]

What are the ingredients to Wisbroek pellets?

 

[SunConureBaba]

I would go for TOP's + Harrison's high potency fine (~ 2mm in size) or super fine.

I don't know how big your bird's beak is, so I'm not sure about the pellet size.
TOP's mini seems significantly more expensive than other sizes, and it's probably not that small. Given that TOP's pellets easily crumble into a million pieces when chewed, it might be a good idea to buy a bigger and cheaper size and manually make them into smaller sizes / into a powder.

You might be able to ask for samples to see if your bird likes them.

 

[Smaragdeidechse]

@PippTheBananaBirb
For “Low Fat” the listed ingredients are:
maize flour, wheat bran, wheat flour, carrots, carob, apple pulp, dicalcium-phosphate, lucerne, calcium carbonate, rosehip, brewers’ yeast, spirulina, lecithin

… and for “Fruit Blend” they are:
wheat bran, maize flour, dextrose, raisins, carrots, lucerne, sunflower seeds, mung beans, hemp, buckwheat, millet, walnuts, peanuts, milk thistle seeds, papaya, apple pulp, maize gluten, carob, sunflower oil, dicalcium-phosphate, lecithin, egg powder, cranberries, brewers’ yeast, rosehip, spirulina, calcium carbonate, beetroot

TOP's mini seems significantly more expensive than other sizes (...) it might be a good idea to buy a bigger and cheaper size and manually make them into smaller sizes

Well, not over here. TOP's mini and large cost the same and the small ones are a tiny bit cheapser but the come with less content (12 oz. insted of 1lb) so extrapolated to the kg-price they are more expensive.
But if she likes them I could get the large ones in a 10lb pack (the other two sizes come only in max. 4lbs (mini) and 3lb (small)) which would make them a little bit cheaper but not that much.

 

[SunConureBaba]

I have read from multiple places that TOP's doesn't contain enough vitamin D3 cuz there is no synthetic vitamins in it. So if your bird isn't getting enough sunlight, you need something else. This is why I suggested Harrison's high potency.

A cheap and effective alternative solution to the vitamin D3 issue is probably egg yolk. TOP's + egg is gonna be cheaper than Harrison's high potency. No synthetic vitamins here too.

I also heard that one might wanna avoid synthetic vitamins. This is from human's perspective:

When myself take vitamin c occasionally, I always take a buffered vitamin c complex powder that's from a natural source. I avoid taking synthetic vitamins.

 

[HeatherG]

I think Harrison’s high potency fine is doing really well for my Quaker who used to pluck. I believe kakarikis eat insects as well as plant matter so I wonder if your kakariki would benefit from the extra protein and fat in Harrison’s high potency fine pellet.

 

[LoveOfallAnimals]

There is natural Vitamin D and artificial Vitamin D. The Vitamin D in most pellets is artificial. When taking artificial Vitamin D you need to increase the liquid intake, meaning you have to drink more which is difficult to get a parrot to do. The Vitamin D in TOP’s pellets is provided by seaweeds and alfalfa, which are natural forms of Vitamin D. From this natural form of the Vitamin D the body can absorb as much as it needs and no increased drinking is necessary and therefore no danger of kidney damage. If one is really concerned that their bird is not getting enough Vitamin D from Tops then I would suggest taking it out in the sunlight for 30 mins a day. Nothing will ever be able to replace mother nature.

 

[HeatherG]

Tops pellets were my preference for Willow but he absolutely refused to eat them.

 

[Smaragdeidechse]

So if your bird isn't getting enough sunlight, you need something else

Technically she does get enough sunlight. I have a bird-proofed window she can sit in front of and enjoy the sun if she likes but she hasn’t really used that opportunity yet. But I’m definitely gonna try egg yolk some time soon and see if she likes it, thanks for the tip .

I believe kakarikis eat insects as well as plant matter so I wonder if your kakariki would benefit from the extra protein and fat in Harrison’s high potency fine pellet.

Thank you, that’s quite an interesting thought. They do eat insects in the wild, so I am going to have a look into that. Maybe I could even feed her (alive or dried) mealworms from time to time for protein, but I must dig deeper into this topic to see if that’s even possible .

Tops pellets were my preference for Willow but he absolutely refused to eat them.

Oh no, that's one of my biggest fears: that she's just gonna ignore the pellets. What did you do? Did you switch to a differend brand or are you still trying to convince her?

 

[HeatherG]

Sunlight through a window is not the same. The glass cuts out some wavelengths and then it doesn’t cause vitamin D production.

I fed my greenCheeked conure dried mealworms at times, for example when he was molting. He really liked them. (I did not feed Lucy Quaker dried mealworms because (1) she was afraid of insects and (2) I’m not going to kiss a bird beak that’s been eating bugs. No. Yuck.)

Willow was afraid of new things and so would not even touch the tops pellets. Maybe I should’ve stuck with them longer, but I just gave them away and tried another brand. Finally he has settled on Harrison’s high potency.

 

[SunConureBaba]

I was worrying about Harrison's pellets being extruded when they were made. Is there significant nutrition loss? I read from the following website (not official?) that it's a low temperature extrusion process. How low is that?

How are Harrison's Bird Foods made?

Harrison's Bird Foods - UK are distributors of Harrison's Bird Foods which are premium, certified organic, nutritionally complete foods for pet birds.

www.hbf-uk.co.uk

 

[SunConureBaba]

There is natural Vitamin D and artificial Vitamin D. The Vitamin D in most pellets is artificial. When taking artificial Vitamin D you need to increase the liquid intake, meaning you have to drink more which is difficult to get a parrot to do. The Vitamin D in TOP’s pellets is provided by seaweeds and alfalfa, which are natural forms of Vitamin D. From this natural form of the Vitamin D the body can absorb as much as it needs and no increased drinking is necessary and therefore no danger of kidney damage. If one is really concerned that their bird is not getting enough Vitamin D from Tops then I would suggest taking it out in the sunlight for 30 mins a day. Nothing will ever be able to replace mother nature.

Organic Pellets

TOP’s Parrot Pellets™ are USDA Organic Certified and perfect for parrots of all sizes, from macaws to budgies. Our signature, proprietary pellets are made with all organic ingredients from the United States and are cold-pressed to keep the natural nutrition intact. Now available in three...

topsparrotfood.com

I don't see seaweed being listed in the above. However, I do remember seeing the mention of seaweed on other pages of their site:

FAQs

We hear from customers around the world who have questions about our pellets and seed mixes. Below are some of the most frequent that come our way. Do you offer free samples? We do offer sample trial packs of our large pellets, small pellets and mini pellets. The 2-ounce bags are $1 each and...

topsparrotfood.com

 

[SunConureBaba]

Sunlight through a window is not the same. The glass cuts out some wavelengths and then it doesn’t cause vitamin D production.

I fed my greenCheeked conure dried mealworms at times, for example when he was molting. He really liked them. (I did not feed Lucy Quaker dried mealworms because (1) she was afraid of insects and (2) I’m not going to kiss a bird beak that’s been eating bugs. No. Yuck.)

Willow was afraid of new things and so would not even touch the tops pellets. Maybe I should’ve stuck with them longer, but I just gave them away and tried another brand. Finally he has settled on Harrison’s high potency.

Try to eat TOP's pellets yourself in front of her. It tastes ok.

My birb initially preferred TOP's to Harrison's, now I think it's the opposite. So I feed him mainly Harrison's with a lil bit of TOP's during the day, and only TOP's overnight.

I saw a number of 3rd party sites mentioning the first 4-5 ingredients of TOP's account for the majority. And the 10-20 ingredients coming after that comprise of no more than 5% total volume each.

However, I remember also seeing a statement from TOP's official site that the first 4-5 ingredients constitute 95% of the pellets. This is conflicting info and confuses me. Here it is:

Pellet Week: 16 Years of Parrot Pellet Consistency

In the food and beverage industry, several secret recipes have been passed down and unchanged for generations. Think KFC's original recipe, Coca-Cola's formula, and Famous Amos Cookies. These iconic brands feature the mystique of having a unique list of ingredients that make magic for their...

topsparrotfood.com

"Because the recipe is not a secret, we're happy to share it with you: a quartet of key ingredients comprise 95 percent of TOP's pellets — alfalfa, millet, barley and brown rice — and always have. These cornerstone components give TOP's pellets their classic green color (from the alfalfa) and foundation to deliver healthy nutrition to your flock. The remaining 5 percent is comprised of a special blend of healthy, organic dry ingredients (the exact measurements of these ingredients is a secret) that add the flavors, textures, and fats that your birds love. "

I don't think there is much seaweed in TOP's. And alfalfa as the main ingredient does not seem to contain a meaningful amount of vitamin D. So I would think the amount of vitamin D3 that birbs can get from TOP's is very limited.

 

[SailBoat]

The real danger is not knowing just how Parrots use Sunlight to have Vitamin D . Parrots and the other Birds do not have skin based receptors! They see the specific Color Spectrum! In fact that specific Color Spectrum is very important to them as they see it and we do not!
NOTE: A double pane of glass does not inhibit a Parrot or any of the Birds from seeing that specific Color Spectrum! In fact, if you sit in a window with a double pane of glass and as a result 'feel warmer' you are feeing the effects of that specific Color Spectrum. Blocking UV requires a sheet of specific plastic sheet set between two panes of glass. Hard Science.

Diet: The use of the term 'Seed Diet" is over used as unless one clearly defines what they are in fact feeding, one cannot provide clarity regarding what needs to be added to a diet. The market has a very broad offering of 'Seed Diets,' from pure junk to high quality, excellent variety of Seeds and Grains that are healthy and provide one's feather friend a great diet!

Pellets are not all equal as the same is true as the term, Seed Diet. Some are Junk and others are a higher quality. In addition, what type. of facility produces them are just as important. Here again there is a very wide range from questionable to Human grade facilities. Then there is the reality of the quality of the additives that may or may not be active.

 

[HeatherG]

The real danger is not knowing just how Parrots use Sunlight to have Vitamin D . Parrots and the other Birds do not have skin based receptors! They see the specific Color Spectrum! In fact that specific Color Spectrum is very important to them as they see it and we do not!
NOTE: A double pane of glass does not inhibit a Parrot or any of the Birds from seeing that specific Color Spectrum! In fact, if you sit in a window with a double pane of glass and as a result 'feel warmer' you are feeing the effects of that specific Color Spectrum. Blocking UV requires a sheet of specific plastic sheet set between two panes of glass. Hard Science.

Diet: The use of the term 'Seed Diet" is over used as unless one clearly defines what they are in fact feeding, one cannot provide clarity regarding what needs to be added to a diet. The market has a very broad offering of 'Seed Diets,' from pure junk to high quality, excellent variety of Seeds and Grains that are healthy and provide one's feather friend a great diet!

Pellets are not all equal as the same is true as the term, Seed Diet. Some are Junk and others are a higher quality. In addition, what type. of facility produces them are just as important. Here again there is a very wide range from questionable to Human grade facilities. Then there is the reality of the quality of the additives that may or may not be active.

I do think that window glass blocks some uv rays. For example, you don’t get a tan through window glass.

 

[Cottonoid]

I just had my house windows replaced this spring and was assured that untreated clear glass blocks almost all UVB rays, but practically zero UVA. My windows are treated to block most UVA as well. So in a car, for example, the laminated windshield blocks both UVA and UVB but untreated side windows don't - it's why you'll get slightly more tan on your driving arm than your passenger side arm if you're the driver, or why melanomas are more common on the window side of your face.

For my house this means there is virtually no UVB rays coming in, and very very little UVA if I have the windows closed.

 

[HeatherG]

Somehow I thought the preen gland oil was involved in or contained vitamin d. i will try to see whether that’s true or what’s known about avian vit d production. My initial check gave an article that said something like: “it’s very complicated (birds and vit d synthesis) and we don’t understand it all”.

 

[Smaragdeidechse]

First: thank you all for you replies they are very appreciated .

“it’s very complicated (birds and vit d synthesis) and we don’t understand it all”

Yeah, I’m going to side with that because right know I’m just confused to the maximum. But when I said I have a bird-proofed window, what I meant was: A window that’s still bird-proofed when fully opened. So, she can sit there, get real sun light and enjoy a nice breeze.

Pellets are not all equal as the same is true as the term, Seed Diet. Some are Junk and others are a higher quality.

That’s true and why I asked for help deciding which pellets to feed. But maybe I should have clarified right at the beginning what exactly I’m feeding Lemon right now. Quality is key, so I’m avoiding supermarket and pet store brand and buy my seed mixes form specialised online shops where I can be sure the seeds are high quality, without additives and (as far as it is possible for dried seeds) fresh. If you like I can give you the exact composition of the mix I feed right now but that’s gonna take some time because I have to translate a lot of weird plant names .

Try to eat TOP's pellets yourself in front of her. It tastes ok.

I'm defintily gonna try that if it's necessary, thanks for the tip .

 

[HeatherG]

Sitting in an “open” screened window must be very nice!!