Help with male eclectus - 18 weeks old

[CrabbyK]

Hey Guys,

New member here, first post.

I need help with my male eckie please. He is 18 weeks old and isn't fully weaned, as the breeder believes that its okay to continue feeding them formula on top of fresh fruit and vegetables, for as long as they want it.

The issue is, the past 2 days he has vomited up the formula after feeding him it in the morning. Nothing else comes up - just the formula. I was thinking maybe I made it as a different consistency or different temperature, but I have the thermometer and keep it at that temp consistently. I was also thinking I should try a different formula?
I have only had him for 2 weeks now, and I know he is still getting settled in here, but the vomiting concerns me.

I also weighed him today and he hasn't put on any weight for a week, even though he has been eating. The breeder drilled it into me that he should be gaining weight weekly, so this makes me concerned.

I feel like I'm out of my depth here. He isn't eating as much as he did at the breeders, but I always make sure he has food around and available, and I hand feed him if need be.

Any advice would be appreciated please. This is my last step before going to see the vet.

Thank you

 

[LaManuka]

Hello CrabbyK, and welcome to the Forums! While I am not personally familiar with handraising/handfeeding baby birds, it is a highly precarious and critical stage in a young parrot’s life and you are correct to be concerned. I do not wish to alarm you but there are so many things that can go wrong and even experienced breeders don't always get it right. If you are able to get him to a vet for professional advice and support, I would have to recommend that you do so as soon as you possibly can. I am not sure exactly where in the world you are located, but the following link will help you to locate an avian specialist vet if you are not already acquainted with one….

https://www.aav.org/

Thank you for reaching out and I wish you and your baby Ekkie all the very best!

 

[CrabbyK]

Hi LaManuka,

Thank you for the welcome .

I'm located in North QLD. Thank you for the tips, I'll just book him in to an avian vet then. This is such a critical stage for parrots so I don't want to get it wrong. Thank you

 

[Scott]

Welcome to you and your young Ekkie! Is the breeder an available resource, either in person, by video or phone? Temperature is critical and ideally you are feeding same brand/type of formula.

Kudos for monitoring weight and seeking assistance. If breeder unavailable, I'd seek an avian vet for guidance. Please check this thread, not all will apply in your circumstance: http://www.parrotforums.com/breeding-raising-parrots/74363-so-you-bought-unweaned-baby.html

Good luck, please keep us updated!

 

[CrabbyK]

Thanks Scott! The breeder is available but I didn't want to inform them of this yet, as they're easily stressed.
I borrowed the breeder's temperature and they gave me some formula so that's why I'm pretty sure it isn't to do with formula and/or temperature as I haven't changed it. It's hard as well because Eckies settle in differently to new environments, so it's so hard to compare and know. Thank you for linking the forum! I'll have a read.

 

[LaManuka]

Hi LaManuka,

Thank you for the welcome .

I'm located in North QLD. Thank you for the tips, I'll just book him in to an avian vet then. This is such a critical stage for parrots so I don't want to get it wrong. Thank you

Aaah, fellow Queenslander, yes I think it's wisest that you do! There are other instances where I would be happy to speculate as to what "may" be wrong but not with a baby, as well intentioned as it may be. Nothing beats a hands-and-eyes-on examination by an avian medical professional.

Go well at the vet and keep us updated

 

[noodles123]

Can you bring him back to the breeder for full weaning? There is no reason for you to hand feed him-- It will not improve your bond long-term but breeders often like it because it's less work for them. You really should never get an unweaned baby unless you have extensive hand-feeding experience. There is a myth that feeding will make the bird more attached to you, but it doesn't last long-term (as babies change so much). As long as someone hand-feeds them, there is 0 reason for it to be you.


This is a very serious matter and there are so many things that can go wrong with babies. Just ask that he finish the process...
Here is a link on some how-to stuff, but genuinely, I would not try to do this on your own (having never done it before) https://hari.ca/hari/research-facil...cine-pediatrics-housing-feeding-baby-parrots/ If you have done it before and are having doubts, I'd say that is all the more reason to get help.

 

[CrabbyK]

Thanks for the reply Noodles123.
The reason I'm hand feeding him is not to create a bond but because of how the breeder raises their young. She believes that its okay to continue to feed the baby formula even up to 1 years old, so long as they continue to eat fresh fruit and vegetables. I agree that it's not right to do that, and that feeding formula is dangerous as the wrong temperature can be harmful for the baby. Im at a loss as you can't just take them off formula cold Turkey, but she will argue with me if I ask for him to be taken back and fully weaned. I also don't want to keep taking him back and forth as its already stressful adjusting him to this new environment. I havent fed him formula this morning and he hasn't vomited today - good sign. I will continue to keep an eye on him and limit formula.

 

[noodles123]

Thanks for the reply Noodles123.
The reason I'm hand feeding him is not to create a bond but because of how the breeder raises their young. She believes that its okay to continue to feed the baby formula even up to 1 years old, so long as they continue to eat fresh fruit and vegetables. I agree that it's not right to do that, and that feeding formula is dangerous as the wrong temperature can be harmful for the baby. Im at a loss as you can't just take them off formula cold Turkey, but she will argue with me if I ask for him to be taken back and fully weaned. I also don't want to keep taking him back and forth as its already stressful adjusting him to this new environment. I havent fed him formula this morning and he hasn't vomited today - good sign. I will continue to keep an eye on him and limit formula.

I'm not a hand-feeding expert, but I have witnessed the process and I know it can be tricky. Your breeder is right to emphasize weight gain, and I think that is what you should focus on-- the stall in gains. It may be related to something other than a weaning issue, but at such a tender age, it is really critical to double check everything and be super cautious.


abundance weaning is good (and I think that is what you are getting at) but it seems she should still have waited until they were less reliant on formula before making the transfer (IMO). The other possibility is that she did her part fine, but that your bird is super stressed or sick (therefore preventing her from consuming what she needs). If you are CERTAIN that the formula refusal is due to your parrot being fully weaned, then that is one thing (as they will refuse at some point) BUT I am concerned that that may not be the case (based upon past eating habits, weight, and variable weaning spans for the species).

I could be wrong, but 18 weeks and refusing formula (after she was just eating it really well) seems concerning to me when combined with lack of weight gain, (as refusal is usually more gradual, and a well fed baby should gain weight).. I do get what you are saying though (not just blowing you off or anything- this just doesn't seem to add up to me)...If she were gaining weight, I'd say maybe she just was fully weaned early and refusing formula as a natural part of the process.

There always will be a time when a parrot (at least in a healthy/abundance setting) will eat both formula and solids. They will get less interested in the formula over time (assuming they are eating enough of the other foods) BUT, I am afraid that may not be the reason yours is eating less. The lack of weight gain, in conjunction with this sudden decrease in appetite has me worried (not only because your bird is very young, but also due to the dietary complications of your species).


Some chicks do wean early, but others take up to 6 months. If yours is eating solids but suddenly stopped eating formula and isn't showing gains, that is the issue.


I'd be very cautious about making sure everything is sterile and at the EXACT temperature each time. Monitor weight daily and keep the breeder updated.

 

[CrabbyK]

Thank you so much for the info Noodles123!

I agree with everything you're saying, which is why I've reached out. It's concerning he isn't eating much and refusing formula. Although weirdly, I feed him formula at night time and he didn't vomit it up - only the morning one he did. I know how stressful a new environment is for him, as I've only had him for 2 weeks, and different eckie's settle in differently, but this is the most critical stage for him to eat and weight gain. He really should've been fully weaned before I got him, because he would rather eat formula now than eat his own food, and that's not good. I was also doing some research and I keep seeing that it's good to make mashed sweet potato (without the milk). Would this be a good alternative to give him? I will take him to the vet next week and keep you all updated.

Thank you

 

[Laurasea]

This is a good article, I share it a lot. Ekkie as a species can be more sensitive to stress.
https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/stress-reduction-for-parrot-companions/

The following is from the above great article.
" Hunger = Anxiety = Stress
One of the most powerful tools for reducing stress in a young parrot is to feed him warm, soft, nutritious food from a spoon at least once every day. Most hand-reared parrots were never spoon fed when young, since the practice of using a syringe is so popular, but they can learn to enjoy this if the owner is willing to be persistent about offering it on a nightly basis.

The majority of parrots reared for sale by breeders or pet stores are weaned too early, in addition to being deprived of the fledging experience. Early weaning helps to insure an early sale, which maximizes profits. In order to accomplish this, the hand-feeder eliminates feedings according to an arbitrary schedule that will insure that the young parrot is weaned as early as possible. The huge problem with this practice is that hunger and anxiety become closely linked in the minds of baby parrots.

In the wild, no adult parrot wants a chick to be calling for food because this elicits the attention of predators. Babies are fed constantly, rarely ever wanting for food for long. Further, as more breeders allow their pairs to raise their young through weaning and fledging, observations accumulate that prove what we long suspected … that adult parrots will continue to feed their chicks even after they are weaned, apparently to provide reassurance or nurturing if the chick encounters a frightening experience as it becomes more independent. The chick not only does not experience hunger, but it receives feedings even when it only needs to be nurtured or reassured.

Contrast this reality with the common rearing practice of eliminating feedings according to a schedule, which can leave a parrot chick hungry for hours at a time, as he learns to manipulate food in order to feed himself. Further, to compound the anxiety caused by the hunger that he instinctively understands to be unnatural, he also receives no feedings simply for the purpose of reassurance as he meets the challenges of life in a pet store or new home. Thus, hunger and anxiety become inextricably and forever linked in the mind of the parrot.

I believe this is why so many adult parrots do not eat well when feeling anxious. In more consulting cases than I care to count, close questioning reveals a pattern of eating that results in a hungry bird. An anxious young parrot will eat enough to keep himself alive and maintain his weight, but will not eat enough to reach satiety, the point that usually brings a greater sense of relaxation. In many cases, a young bird weaned through deprivation weaning techniques will become food independent, but will have a permanent behavioral disability as a result."

 

[CrabbyK]

Thanks Lauresea!

So an update, I took him the vet this morning and he has a crop infection! So he is on medication now. I'm really unsure how he got the crop infection in the first place, and I'm doing lots of research now to identify where it came from. I have noticed he doesn't drink water and I do try to feed it to him via a spoon but he rejects it. I may have to syringe him water if he doesnt start drinking it.

Any tips would be appreciated. Thank you

 

[LaManuka]

Thanks for the update, I'm glad you have a diagnosis and presumably a follow up appointment?

If he won't take water from a normal spoon, you can either purchase a feeding spoon like this or bash up the edges of a regular spoon so that it resembles one...

I have to medicate my cockatiel every day from a syringe for his heart condition, you just need to take it very slowly and carefully to ensure whatever you are administering doesn't go down the "wrong" way. Your baby may perhaps already be accustomed to this type of spoon feeding from his breeder.

Wishing him a full and speedy recovery!

 

[noodles123]

Unsterile conditions during feeding (unsterile hands, water, formula, syringe etc can cause crop infections, but stress etc can lower immune system and babies are just so fragile that it is hard to know). The temperature of the formula must be exact as well.



I'm really glad you got to the vet sooner than next week, as I think things would have been too severe by then- kudos to you for recognizing and getting in sooner!


Formula is pretty watery, so as long as he is eating that, I would be less concerned about the fact that you aren't seeing him drink (as long as he is eating often)<-- I could be wrong, but that's just my gut opinion (assuming frequent formula feedings)

 

[Laurasea]

do not syringe water!!!!@! A huge choking and inhalation hazard. When I had very sick birds, my vet said never ever do plain water by syringe. They one time I needed to she had me thicken it up with a little formula.

Birds don't drink a lot , some of their fluid comes from the veggies , or fruit. Or yiu don't catch them drinking. Or if you are still hsbd feeding they are getting plenty of fluids in tge formula

A dehydrated bird will have very bright deep yellow urine. Its almost neon.

Crip infections in habdcraus we d parrots are a constant risk, temperature not maintaining, allows food to move slower and rot, or improper, usually low Temps, allow yeast or bacteria to over grow. Not making formula fresh each time. Formula will grow bacteria quickly. And everything mentioned above.

 

[Redwyne]

Thanks Lauresea!

So an update, I took him the vet this morning and he has a crop infection! So he is on medication now. I'm really unsure how he got the crop infection in the first place, and I'm doing lots of research now to identify where it came from. I have noticed he doesn't drink water and I do try to feed it to him via a spoon but he rejects it. I may have to syringe him water if he doesnt start drinking it.

Any tips would be appreciated. Thank you

Best Wishes

Same story here, it's been confirmed that he is sick too and received 2 injections on chest and have to be on medications for 5 days.