Horror-mones and Springtime

[Squeekmouse]

My Congo African Grey, Trigger, will be 3 years old this August. Last year Trigger was a huge handful. He was always energetic, was quick to bite, easily frightened, and enjoyed the sound of his own screaming. We have him out of the cage as much as possible (he attacks our Green Cheek so he has to be carefully watched), and we train with him at least 30 minutes every day (target, recall, tricks, clicker). Over the winter he began to calm down. He learned to stop biting (just applying gentle pressure when he wants us to stop what we're doing that he doesn't like), he was happier to just sit and hang out without screaming, attacking, or otherwise getting into trouble. He became more affectionate, more talkative, and just a sweet little angel. :21:

....and then Springtime came and the Horror-mones reared up. We're making sure to get him a good 10 hours of sleep, covered in his cage, plus 2 hours of quiet, dark time out of his cage to wind down beforehand. We still train with him and have tried all that we can think of. But he's still screamier, bite-ier, wilder and crazier than he was over the winter. We figure he must be going through particularly bad horror-mones because he's in his adolescence.
Can anyone with older birds share their knowledge, how long will this season of horror-mones/puberty last? Is there anything we can/should do to help him chill out?

The main point is wanting to know how long this puberty/hormone explosion will go on.. and when can we get back to how sweet he was this winter, these days we have to be more hands off and give him more and more time-outs because he starts grunting and regurgitating just as soon as he comes out of his cage.

Thanks!!

 

[Laurasea]

I like what you did, horror

Neptune had a pretty big hormonal time 2 years in a row, was several months in that big hormonal year 2019,
Decrease fatty foods and nuts prior and during breeding season. Increase exercise
It can be a tough couple of years. For you he might have a hard time till 5 years old..often why parrots are rehomed as you know

 

[Squeekmouse]

Thank you Laurasea Sounds like we just gotta cut down the safflower seed treats, make sure he gets plenty of exercise and toys to tear apart, and keep loving him while he grows out of this crazy-phase.

Anyone know how long this Springtime craze will last? Just Spring or Spring and Summer and most of Fall?

Anyone else have any advice how to mitigate the worst of it?

 

[SailBoat]

Life with the Hot Three Amazons is something that I wish upon no one.

Each species tend to have their own special way to transition from youth to adulthood. The when, how long and what level of chemical flow differs between species. And just to make it more special, between individuals of the same species.

- The most important thing to remember is: They have zero control of the when, how long and and how much!

- Transition from youth, one would believe is a well defined start point, of a specific age and sadly, not true as the general health of the parrot has as much to do with it as does a precise age. In recent years, the beginning point seems to be coming younger.

- How long? With the hot three in the Amazon World, it can be five years +/- of year around never ending as a worst case, to as light as a few months each year. But in all cases in the Amazon World, it will return every year.

- What to do when your Parrot is effected. Provide them room to cool-off! Remember, they have no control of it, but if pushed, it commonly only increases the flow.

- Remember, this to shall pass! When you come to your wits end, remember that there are others out there dealing with far worst. Our Julio could become darn dangerous if not approached /handled with care.

 

[Laurasea]

I expect will decrease by may, lesser season in the fall.
Next year will probably be your worst, is my guess by Greys maturity average

Time outside im their very secure cage. Can really improve things. It did for me. Didn't scresm outside, and usually for a couple of hours once back inside. I did 30min-1 hrs outside, sometimes 2 hours..

 

[wrench13]

SO not a Gray, but Salty, a small amazon ( who you know already form making his plushy) had a relatively mild puberty, but the last 2 mating seasons have been off the hook. THey have been fading as we move to warmer weather. 12 hrs sleep 100% of the time, almost zero fruit and veg with high sugar content (like corn!), zero hidey spots, no shredddy type materials, and lots of love and close observation when being approached have cut way back on the bites. He was so sweet today, stepping up readily, sitting on my shoulder to watch a few parrot videos and get a good scratch. Gotta know your birds body language, so important, and their likes and dislikes. But, here I am telling you - you know all this already!!

 

[texsize]

So this is a dumb question but.
What does an African Grey sound like when screaming?

Bella has a horrible shreak, high frequency and ear piercing. She has only used it a few times when really scared.

Her most annoying sound is a Cockatiel squeak 3x normal volume.

Bella has been going through puberty.
For her it’s mostly regurgitation to my wife (Bella’s chosen person) and a small increase in nips.
She has been changing in subtle ways difficult to put into words.
Today she came up with a brand new whistle.
Reminds me of the 3 tone note you get when you dial (why do we say dial?) a number not in service.

 

[noodles123]

My Congo African Grey, Trigger, will be 3 years old this August. Last year Trigger was a huge handful. He was always energetic, was quick to bite, easily frightened, and enjoyed the sound of his own screaming. We have him out of the cage as much as possible (he attacks our Green Cheek so he has to be carefully watched), and we train with him at least 30 minutes every day (target, recall, tricks, clicker). Over the winter he began to calm down. He learned to stop biting (just applying gentle pressure when he wants us to stop what we're doing that he doesn't like), he was happier to just sit and hang out without screaming, attacking, or otherwise getting into trouble. He became more affectionate, more talkative, and just a sweet little angel. :21:

....and then Springtime came and the Horror-mones reared up. We're making sure to get him a good 10 hours of sleep, covered in his cage, plus 2 hours of quiet, dark time out of his cage to wind down beforehand. We still train with him and have tried all that we can think of. But he's still screamier, bite-ier, wilder and crazier than he was over the winter. We figure he must be going through particularly bad horror-mones because he's in his adolescence.
Can anyone with older birds share their knowledge, how long will this season of horror-mones/puberty last? Is there anything we can/should do to help him chill out?

The main point is wanting to know how long this puberty/hormone explosion will go on.. and when can we get back to how sweet he was this winter, these days we have to be more hands off and give him more and more time-outs because he starts grunting and regurgitating just as soon as he comes out of his cage.

Thanks!!

I'd caution against this " plus 2 hours of quiet, dark time out of his cage to wind down beforehand"

You shouldn't cover or shut off lights until it is time for him to go to bed fully.


If they are in the dark/dim lighting, it should be full-on bed-time (with the exception of dimming the lights slightly around bed time--- I mean, you should still be able to easily read anywhere in the room with the level of dim lighting I am talking about). If you have to dim the lights a bit more to get him back to his cage, that is okay, but partial coverings or dark spaces other than the conditions they would sleep in can further amplify hormones..If you cover his cage and he is still up in there, that is fine, but the conditions shouldn't change again 2 hours later. If you want, you could cover him 2 hours earlier so he would have a total of 12 covered, but don't break it up into "quiet time" vs "sleep time". If he's up and can still see you guys around in dim light, you don't want that and if you make it too dark, they can't see, so you may as well just put him to bed.

 

[thegars]

Our gray, Debbie is going to be 5 in October, fully flighted and stubborn this time of year..not completely uncommon for her to sit on my wife’s hand and be sweet, yet suddenly reach down and bite fairly hard, sometimes drawing blood. With me she just lets me know she would rather NOT get off my hand...regurgitation hasn’t really increased...always been...understand, we really don’t know her sex, doesn’t really matter..

Add to the season, her age and the fact she’s molting...spring is so much fun...lol

 

[Laurasea]

Noodles suggestion is spot on. The quiet time in the dark space is basically saying here is your breeding cavity, and can be making things worse. I second her, and say stop this, permanently.

I just found a nice article on hormones, so I will link it in your thread to.
https://blogpamelaclarkonline.com/2019/08/28/hormonal-behavior-in-parrots/

 

[thegars]

Hmmm....now rethinking things. Debbie, her main cage and perch area are in our living room. She has a light on a timer that is on for 12 hours a day...her cage gets covered and uncovered with the timing of the light. The cover is a black sheet, I’m sure she sees shadows, but is quiet as we watch tv. In the morning as she stirs for a bit, she’ll quietly talk to herself until she’s ready, the light comes on, she say “good morning” louder and louder until she’s uncovered. Like an above post, I’d guess you’d say she has quiet time for a couple hours in the evening...hmmmm....btw, she’s typically out of her cage 10 hours a day. My concern is, this has been her routine since she was 14 weeks old, really try to change things up often in an attempt to ensure that she adapts to change. But changing her entire evening routine scares me. Advice appreciated.

 

[bigfellasdad]

Not entirely sure, my opinion has changed on all of this...... Biting, Trigger has given you warning that where missed, very often totally subtle, it is with Enzo at least. The slightest change in her demeanour is the first warning, I act accordingly and give it a minute to defuse a situation which inevitably is caused by my impatience or her excitement levels.
Some situations are inventible and I havent figured how to avoid a nip (brushing up being the primary reason for a nip), so in the cases where i cant fix the situation ill just say 'its all right' to her and she calms.

might not make sense i know, but what im saying is most bites/nips/confrontations are avoidable, those that you havent found the answer for, precautions can be made. I dont actually thing its surroundings, situation etc that matter, its the direct one <-> one relationship and ability to read the scenario that matters.

 

[Squeekmouse]

Wow, thank you for all the great info and advice!

I think I didn't explain the sleep schedule very well though. What I mean is, every night after dinner I clean up dishes and cages and then from about 8:30 to 10pm we all watch TV together. Yoda curls up in my hair and sleeps, Trigger sits on my husband's knee and preens. At 10pm the boys get put in their cages and they are covered. Both of their cages are in/near the living room so the covers help block the light and noise of the TV. My husband and I usually go to bed an hour or so later. I wake up around 7-7:30am and the boys are almost always awake around the same time, no matter how quiet we are, or even if we sleep in. They start calling out and demanding breakfast if we don't get them up by 8:30. Weekday mornings we get them up about 8am.

So far we've cut down the treats and completely cut out the nuts. I've also been providing more toys for Trigger to destroy and he seems to be getting better. He never regurgitates for me, but he still tries to for my husband. When he does, Trigger gets put down and walked away from or goes into his cage for some alone time. Yoda really doesn't show any sign of hormonal behaviors much. Occasionally he becomes fascinated with a cubby hole among the couch cushions, but that's about it.

 

[thegars]

What a day! Debbie was really strange! Actually went on the attack! Out of nowhere she decided that my wife was not allowed to sit back and relax....she actually kept flying directly at her...even circled to try to find a point of attack! Lasted about 25 minutes, then she calmed down and kept telling her “ I love you” and being her more normal self....truly worrisome.

 

[Cycletim]

Welcome Our CAG was very hormonal when we adopted him. He was fixated on a ball. Getting rid of the ball was a great choice, it calmed him down quite a bit.
In my opinion, the best way to deal with hormones is to get your bird outside away from all the triggers inside. They are wild animals not pets. We built an aviary, but a big cage would do fine. Both our parrots spend 10 hours per day outside, we have no hormonal issues at all. I hope that helps, good luck.

 

[noodles123]

Wow, thank you for all the great info and advice!

I think I didn't explain the sleep schedule very well though. What I mean is, every night after dinner I clean up dishes and cages and then from about 8:30 to 10pm we all watch TV together. Yoda curls up in my hair and sleeps, Trigger sits on my husband's knee and preens. At 10pm the boys get put in their cages and they are covered. Both of their cages are in/near the living room so the covers help block the light and noise of the TV. My husband and I usually go to bed an hour or so later. I wake up around 7-7:30am and the boys are almost always awake around the same time, no matter how quiet we are, or even if we sleep in. They start calling out and demanding breakfast if we don't get them up by 8:30. Weekday mornings we get them up about 8am.

So far we've cut down the treats and completely cut out the nuts. I've also been providing more toys for Trigger to destroy and he seems to be getting better. He never regurgitates for me, but he still tries to for my husband. When he does, Trigger gets put down and walked away from or goes into his cage for some alone time. Yoda really doesn't show any sign of hormonal behaviors much. Occasionally he becomes fascinated with a cubby hole among the couch cushions, but that's about it.

Hair and laps are hormonal triggers for MANY birds experiencing hormones...ESPECIALLY with a preferred person. Under no pretense should an adult bird ever spend time with a person in a dimly lit space (unless seriously ill). I know you mean no harm-- it's just that they are wired this way...and you are seeing the impacts. Just because one bird isn't sexually triggered, doesn't mean the other won't be. You can't compare 2 birds, in this respect and you also can't assume your other bird will never have issues because of this stuff. This is why hormones are so important to regulate in a home--because it is so unnatural and they are hard-wired to find mates etc etc. Regurgitation is not a precursor for sexual behavior-- Noodles has never regurgitated for me, yet she will sometimes quake in a sexual way if she even sees me..


Just because one bird gets off on one thing, doesn't mean the other will...Sorry if that seems crude, but it's the reality of the situation. The proof is in the pudding,if you catch my drift.

 

[Cycletim]

Cage covers are another topic. There are no covers in nature so, why do we use them? Perhaps they are not helping your situation, parrots are social, if they want to go to bed and you want to watch a movie, put them away and turn the light off. Enjoy your movie, the night time in the jungle is not a quiet place. Our birds go to bed in their cages at the same time on their own despite of what is going on in the living room.

 

[noodles123]

Cage covers are another topic. There are no covers in nature so, why do we use them? Perhaps they are not helping your situation, parrots are social, if they want to go to bed and you want to watch a movie, put them away and turn the light off. Enjoy your movie, the night time in the jungle is not a quiet place. Our birds go to bed in their cages at the same time on their own despite of what is going on in the living room.

I agree with cage covers if the rest of the room is dark (just because it can reduce shadows and odd headlights etc) but when there is a consistent, but dim light source, it gets weird. A movie (while that may seem normal to us) can be very sexual to them (due to the nesty environment and time with that person). I'm VERY glad you guys are sticking with the 10 hour sleep cycle, but I really think this is a big part of your problem. Bedtime is bedtime.

 

[wrench13]

Our nite time routine is training begins at 8:45 sharp, over by 9:05-9:10, Salty gets returned to his daytime play chain to start his own 'cooling off' period. At 9:30 its lights off except for the TV, so he can get into roosting mode. At 10:00 sharp, TV is off, Salty goes into his cage, covered, with a small heating pad on the outside by his sleeping perch, if it chilly. We retreat into the bedroom, so its very quiet in the main part of the house.

I am up around 6 or 7, make coffee, and go downstairs to start work. THe Mrs gets up around 10 ( she is a night owl compared to me) and we feed the critters shortly after. Salty is often asleep when we raise his cover off, and he gets a morning scratch in his cage.