Illiger's or Hahn's

[Jenny93]

Hi guys,

I saw these amazing birds and from that moment on I was inlove with them! :smile015: I've had two green cheeked conures (one male and one female) for 6 months now and I love them so much! I'm considering getting a mini macaw and I really want to make a very educated choice about this, so I'm taking my time. They're super hard to find where I live and at the moment I can only find an Illiger macaw, but I'm not sure what are the differences between the two (Illiger and Hahn). I'm in no rush, so I can keep searching, but what would you say would be the better choice? Let me explain our situation:

I'm 27, I live with my family in a big apartment. We have 2 GCC, 2 dogs and fish and at some time in the foreseeable future we may have kids. I know that this parrot is a lifelong commitment and this one of the things I love about it. We have the space for a big cage and I let my parrots fly around the house every day (I make sure the dogs aren't in the same room). So far I've had no complaints about the noise (2 dogs and 2 small parrots) and I don't think that will be an issue, as long as the screaming continues for hours and is louder than 2 dogs barking . I'm looking for a parrot that is loving, loves to interact with people and in the future can be handled by kids without hurting them (supervised, of course). Also I have hopes that if let outside together it could get along with the GHC as well, so I'm also wondering if male or female would be the better choice. I can see that many of you here have experience with these parrots and I'm hoping I can get some insights and stories so I can make the right choice for everyone.

 

[chris-md]

Hello and welcome!

I’m not sure what you mean by GHC. Could you be referring to GCC (green cheek conures?)

Your in an APARTMENT with all those animals? You SURE you can accommodate another parrot?

There won’t be TOO much difference between the two species, generally. Though each is an individual and species temperaments by no means often translate to individual birds. Hahn’s can be beaky and nippy, but so can illigers. Family friendly really is all in how you raise and train them. So it becomes simply a question of how much space you have. Keep an eye out for yellow collared macaws too, another common mini.

If you’re considering an illigers, You might look outside the mini macaw into some of the other smallishly medium parrots, such as cape parrots, iliac crowned amazons, white spectacled amazons, or perhaps an eclectus if you’re willing to deal with their dietary requirements. Or step the size up a bit more from an illigers (250g) and go for a red fronted macaw (500g, a tiny bit bigger than an eclectus) who are said to have one of the best personalities of all macaws next to green wings (depending on your view they are either the largest of the mini macaws or the smallest of the larger macaws, though they double the weight of their smaller cousin).

 

[wrench13]

Welcome and be welcomed. If your willing to go outside the macaw family, some other smaller Amazons are should also be considered, Panama Amazon, yellow fronted Amazon and yellow shoulder Amazons. All 3 are noted as being mellower than the hot 3, smaller, with milder dispositions. My own yellow shoulder is called by my vet, Amazon Lite, yet he talks , sings and loves to learn tricks and stuff, like the hotties.

 

[noodles123]

Welcome and I am very glad that you are taking this so seriously and researching etc before taking the plunge. I talk WAY TOO MUCH, so forgive my wall of text (it's not you, it's me)...But I just try to say what is on my mind, so please forgive me if this comes off as overly pedantic (I'm sure it will, but I gave a disclaimer lol). I don't talk THAT much unless I really care, and in the case of parrots, I do, so you get to sift through my ramblings...

In an apartment, I wouldn't do any sort of Macaw- even the "mini" ones. The other thing to consider if that 2 birds of the same species can fight (sometimes to the death), let alone 3 (with one being much larger than the other two, and of a different species). I am not saying that same-species means that 2 birds will get along or that different species means they will hate each other, but it can go either way in any scenario, which means that things could get very loud and very complicated (even in a house) if they cannot be trusted out of the cage at the same time together) due to biting/attacking/defending cage tops etc. Also, remember that smaller birds mature sexually faster than many larger species, so it can take a few years before you see medium-larger parrots' adult behavior (and that is always way different than the behavior the exhibit before puberty--in SOME large parrots (it can take up to 8 years--- so just remember to consider that as well, because every species and even sub species has a range/time-table for puberty). That means, for 2-3 years with most mini-macaws, you will not have a very good idea of how they will behave at adulthood, and that can change things tremendously when that time comes..(even if they seem perfectly sweet as babies). There can be new jealousy, territorial behaviors, hormones, total changes in preferences towards people etc. All of your birds will all likely want to be in the house where the action is (and that is what they need, as flock animals), which means that you could have a really hard time giving them adequate time/attention at separate times (if your birds don't get along-- a bite from a Hahns macaw could kill a conure, in my opinion) and a mini-macaw alone is going to require at least 3 hours minimum out of the cage daily.minimum...Not to mention your other two who probably already feel a certain attachment toward you and and other members of the family, which could lead to frustration if you suddenly start spending a lot of time with another bird)--not to mention the fact hat they need lots of time out of their cages as well....

On top of all of this, you have dogs and fish etc (plus 2 current parrots)..Dogs are a significant concern in a small space with that many parrots..The amount of time and supervision has the potential to be MUCH larger than it is right now with a new addition. I love dogs and I have never owned one under 50lbs (I was a dog person before I was a parrot person, and I always will be), but they are still animals and parrots can really harass them on purpose-- I know dogs can be sweet around them or even seem to ignore them, but that only stands until the day the dog does not. I know someone whose very sweet dog of many years LITERALLY ate his amazon parrot (after years of seeming indifference and comradely).. It made me sick and I always think about this whenever I am inclined to trust too much because it happens-- it has happened repeatedly (not just to stupid dog owners with crazy, untamed dogs, but to people who are solid pet owners who have had both dogs and birds for years). In my gut, I STILL don't THINK it will happen to me (and I know that is wrong), but knowing these sorts of stories make you safer, because it makes you think about the true risks of caring for multiple animals..Never let your guard down, no matter how well you think you know your parrots and your dogs. No one thinks it will happen to them because those who do are constantly watching-- even with the most stringent of separation, accidents have happened, but a single open door or turn of the head for 5 minutes could result in a parrot becoming a chew-toy (sometimes because the dog is defending itself!)

Do you plan to move out? If so, it can be very hard to find a place that allows medium-larger parrots...and they can and sometimes do scream (louder than 2 barking dogs) for hours--- bigger parrots generally make louder sounds, although some parrots are particularly prone to screaming. Furthermore, consider that, in a family, "your" bird may end up seeming more like someone else's bird. Are your family members able and willing to keep up with a new parrots for 30 years, in the event that he/she gets very attached to one of them (as opposed to you)? I am just throwing it out there because it can and does happen, and you really can't read it that well until they are sexually mature (as things often change).

I can tell you for a fact that both types of macaws you mentioned can get pretty loud and they definitely can draw blood with ease if the mood strikes. I spent a long time with a Hahns and he was sexually mature--- we had some sort of understanding, but he TORE up my (adult) hands early on (now, yes, if a person gets bitten, it is their fault and not the bird's, meaning, I got bitten due to my actions) BUT, I acted out of necessity for the bird's care-taking needs and often got bitten as a result---covered in bandaids early on. Again, with the right time and environment, that might now have happened (but I really had no choice)...I hate to make generalizations, but if a larger parrot gravitates towards one person, it can be really difficult for everyone else in the house if they are expected to pick up slack when "THE" person is away. It is not always that way, but I know how "my" (not truly my, but "my") mini-macaw behaved with his favorite guy (we were both volunteers), and it was a big difference, but with the rest of us, he was very willing to bite if he didn't feel it). He respected me, to some extent, because I could handle him better than many people BUT, I get nervous when I hear anyone asking about sweet parrots who are docile etc. Parrots can be SO sweet and caring, but they can also be little terrorists if they are spoiled, hormonal, or just strongly prefer someone else. With smaller parrots, a bite or scream is also not nearly as loud or frightening. I am not saying that the small ones can't tear up a hand or make you want to run for the hills with screaming, but mini-macaws can bite with some pretty decent force in comparison, and their noise capacity is louder as far as decibels, even if they don't always scream for long periods-- they can . In general, I think mini-macaws actually tend to be more nippy than the full-size ones (noting that a full-size macaw should be out of the question in any apartment, and that a full-sized macaw can break an adult finger in the right setting)...and also noting that generalizations are just that, but that there is generally some truth to them (at least collectively) or they wouldn't be generalizations.

I would say that there is absolutely NO blanket-species of medium to large parrot that can be trusted around kids even with supervision without knowing the individual bird (just because their beaks are really strong, and there is a lot that goes into making a call like that). Yes, there are individuals, but it all depends on your relationship with that parrot, who else is in the room, the kid etc-- there is no species that is safe with kids completely, although there are individuals who can be in the right setting. Any large parrot can really hurt a kid if the mood strikes...You may end up with a bird that can never be trusted with them, or you may end up with one that can be, but even then, that trust is also impacted by the child and the environment, as well as hormones and upbringing etc. A bite from a Hahns macaw could really injure a child, so if it happens, it's on you and the kid, not the species or the individual, because we, as parrot owners, need to take responsibility for the risks upfront.