Is my bird fat? Help me determine please.

[shinyuankuo]

Hi lovely fellow parronts,
Winston is doing very well now after the rehome transition. Bites are not much of a problem anymore, and he is spoiled by us. However, I don’t know if he is doing a little...too well.
I have a hard time determining if he is fat. We don’t have a CAV in the area, so he saw an exotic vet (who’s quite capable for the basics and is conservative to my liking). However, our vet obviously can’t really tell us whether Winston is a pure SI or some mutt SI, and how much he should weight according to his body size. He did say Winston is right around the normal range in his opinion. (460 g ish)
Well, that was during his transition to chop, so he didn’t eat that much. Now he is doing fine on chop, my GOD, this bird can eat!
He eats 2 meals a day. Usually one meal is chop, another is fresh vegetable + TOP pellets. He at least trains twice a day, probably 10-15 mins each time. Treat size varies, but smaller than half of my pinkie nail.
Nowadays, he weights 468-471g in the morning. I wonder if I should limit his food amount. He is a very lazy bird. He does nothing but sits all day. He flies only when there’s treats (nuts). I struggle to get him play toys or move around. At the same time, we are trying to train harness before Spring comes, so we can take him outside when the weather warms up. So...there’s a lot of nuts investment there.
Can you help me see if he is a true SI body (which probably should only weight 370-380g), or is he bigger in scale? Am I giving him too much food? Thanks for the guidance!

Size comparison to small bottles

Size comparison to me, btw, this is Winston’s definition of birdsit.

Open wing

His bird butt

 

[SailBoat]

As an Amazon Snob, I'm not able to tell you if your guy is the right size or not!!!

Our DYH Amazon pulls a light 500 grams, plus he is a full roaming flyer and a very good flyer at that... His species can range from a light 480 to a heavy 600 grams. That said, because of our Amazon's flight abilities, he can look heavy as he has huge Flight Muscles!

So, the activity level of your Joy Green Giant maybe a better indicator.

FYI: Please do not refer to your Guy as a mutt, he may just start bitting you just because you're discing him!!!

One of our SI professionals will be on shortly!!!

 

[chris-md]

Based on the tail length (though there isn’t as great a photo of what I’m trying to see) I don’t think he’s pure Solomon’s, which means he would have potential be being a lot bigger. My boy is a mix, and hovers around 440-450g. The best way to tell is to feel around his keel/breastbone. If he’s overweight you’ll feel excess fat deposits there.

 

[noodles123]

feel his chest (keel bone). If the vertical chest bone can't be felt at all, or feels sandwiched/inverted between two large "breasts" on either side, that is an indicator of a chubby- fat bird.

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Here's a reference image. Unfortunately because subspecies do span a wide weight range, and most 'domesticated' ekkies are mixed subspecies, you can't really gauge by weight.

I'd say, skip trying to figure out his subspecies. We learned our guy is a mix New Guinea Red-Sided, Aru, and Solomon (a friend tracked his breeder down), but that info is actually kinda useless when it comes to a healthy weight. It just helped give us a gauge on when to expect an onset/decrease on teenager hormones.


(side note: I do not know the vet clinic I took this from, but it's a common image)

 

[saxguy64]

I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I'll give my opinion anyway... I go with the idea that each bird is unique to themselves. Winston being 100% SI or not is sort of irrelevant to his particular weight. A physical exam is the best determination of his status. A healthy weight for him may have nothing to do with average for a particular sub species. He was 460ish before, and now 470 range? I think a fluctuation of 10 grams is well within reason. My boy Tucker is a very active Ekkie, excellent flyer, eats like a pig, and weighs in at 420-430 at the same time of day every time. He was around 450 when I got him, but was clipped, couldn't fly at all, and diet sucked- lots of zupreem, and not much else.

So, my point, find what is a healthy weight for HIM, and then use that as your benchmark.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[shinyuankuo]

Thank you all. We will try to feel his keel tonight in shower. We can’t touch him outside of shower interestingly.

 

[Cagzo]

I wouldnt have a clue if he was overweight,but boy.....what a gorgeous bird!

 

[LaManuka]

Tee hee, our Valentino the budgie would easily rate a 5 according to this chart!

Shinyuankuo that is indeed a beautiful boy you have there

 

[shinyuankuo]

Hi everyone,
We were able to touch Winston tonight in the shower, or I guess by we, I mean my husband. I was just there giving almonds. lol
According to him, Winston is in between skinny and ideal. He's chest muscle is pretty soft, so here it is another sign of we've got a lazy bird that's made of rocks. However, I'm relieved that he's not fat (yet).


I probably was overreacting, being a nervous new bird mom again.


My individual replies to you are below:

So, the activity level of your Joy Green Giant maybe a better indicator.

FYI: Please do not refer to your Guy as a mutt, he may just start bitting you just because you're discing him!!!

Well, he's made of rocks. Absolutely no activity when there's nothing in it for him. Not even food stuffed toys are enough.

Winston won't care if I think he's a mutt or not as long as I bring almonds. HAHAHA!
Well, the truth is, I don't care he's pure or not. I just want to make sure he's sized reasonably.

Based on the tail length (though there isn’t as great a photo of what I’m trying to see) I don’t think he’s pure Solomon’s, which means he would have potential be being a lot bigger. My boy is a mix, and hovers around 440-450g. The best way to tell is to feel around his keel/breastbone. If he’s overweight you’ll feel excess fat deposits there.

I'm glad he's not a pure SI. It makes me nervous when people on facebook say "I've got a chunky chicken, 400g!!"
And there's me looking at Winston at 480g sometime.

Here's a reference image. Unfortunately because subspecies do span a wide weight range, and most 'domesticated' ekkies are mixed subspecies, you can't really gauge by weight.

This is great image. I understand most ekkies are mixed, and we will never know what Winston is because we don't know his breeder as His previous mom did not have paperwork for Winston. I am just relived that Winston is not 100g overweight. His appetite is surely scary!

A physical exam is the best determination of his status. A healthy weight for him may have nothing to do with average for a particular sub species. He was 460ish before, and now 470 range? I think a fluctuation of 10 grams is well within reason. My boy Tucker is a very active Ekkie, excellent flyer, eats like a pig, and weighs in at 420-430 at the same time of day every time. He was around 450 when I got him, but was clipped, couldn't fly at all, and diet sucked- lots of zupreem, and not much else.

He had a physical in December, but not by a CAV. I was worried because sometime (recognizing that sometime is not in the morning before breakfast) he weights more than 490g. He was eating fancy seed mix, with colors, additives, and non-natural products before coming to us.

Totally understand what you said, but again, my nervous mom side was on. :56:

 

[shinyuankuo]

Btw, this is how much Winston eats in 3 hours if I let him. This is not given everyday of course.

Before:

After:

 

[chris-md]

Love that serving method! I’ve stuffed artichokes with some nuts to get him eating th artichokes, but never thought to make it the plate. Consider your idea flat out stolen.

 

[SailBoat]

Hmmm, nice snack for an Amazon!!!

That is a great meal! You're a Super Mom!
Take a long look at what you are feeding and understand what adds fat and what targets energy reserves and what just passes...
I think that what you will find is that it is mostly the later two.

FYI: Remember that your guy has a very sensitive diet structure and that you are likely going to be constantly adjusting to maintain that healthy mix. Read to the depths of the Ekkies subForum targeting their diet requirements.

Getting your Ekkie to be active involves IMHO building his interest in flying. Food Treat Bribery is a great tool for a food motivated Parrot. There are a number of great videos in the Ekkies subForum regarding flight /recall training.

Why flying? The flight muscles of Parrots, like Human leg muscles are locked into to their Heart and Air Sacks (Lungs). Anytime they use them is great, and that drives an inner joy of Wing Flapping, which than drives etc, etc, etc...

Check it out in the Ekkies subForum, no reason to believe an Amazon Snob!

 

[GaleriaGila]

In case you'd like to keep looking fr a vet...


Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.
International contacts, too.
Or... sometimes I find a place to start just by Googling "avian veterinarian near ((your location))"

 

[ctwo]

Here's a reference image.

Thanks for that. I assume it is better to err on the light side of the scale.

 

[ctwo]

So I checked my IRN and cockatiel. I would call them skinny. I'll have to compare their weights with the last vet visit. I only have a balance scale so it will be a little tricky. I think I'll put some food in a coffee cup and zero that out, then let the bird stand on the cup.

 

[shinyuankuo]

Follow-up:
Long story short, Winston started sneezing badly this morning (30+ times in 4 hours). We took him to a CAV that's not local. Someone cancelled their app, so we were able to fit into their schedule. The CAV confirmed that he's on the skinny side. She toweled Winston, so I got to touch his keel bone myself for the first time.
Winston got two shots and was sent home with oral med. He has major complaints for his experience at the vet. He first held on to my shirt (I had to take my shirt off for the vet to get him), squawked in the office like the building is on fire, and grabbed the syringe with his foot when the needle was pointing at him while he was toweled like a burrito.


Excuse me? Are you sure that I don't have a circus bird? LOL


Besides that, the vet instructs us to give the oral med with some juices, so we picked up 100% pineapple juice from Trader Joe's on the way home. Wish us luck giving him meds.

 

[LaManuka]

Oh poor Winston, how undignified for him! I’m sorry to hear he’s unwell and I hope he’s a good boy for you and takes all his meds. Wishing him a speedy recovery!

 

[SailBoat]

Our Julio always has much to say to the individual that checks us out!. It must be a required question regarding if we had any comments or concerns regarding the visit. And, he just lets them have it with a cross-section of words/ short sentences and Amazon talk. It's fair to say that love is not in the air.

 

[shinyuankuo]

Thanks for your kind words. I just desensitized him a little to the syringe. He almost bit though that thing...his poo is a little red tonight. I’m not sure if that’s caused by beets he had in the morning. His poo at the vet was normal this afternoon. He is otherwise behaving normally.