It's not just animal smugglers

Birdman666

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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Well, to understand what is going on...

The zoos are not underfunded in Eastern Europe. They are NOT funded anymore.

So, they are using their zoo credentials to obtain these animals, and then selling them on the black market as a way of sustaining themselves.

The economy in Eastern Europe has completely collapsed!

And over there, the black market is a way of life. PEOPLE are bought and sold on the black market over there every day. It should not come as a shock that rare birds are as well...

Things are bleak over there at the moment.

Exporting governments have to realize that, and just not sell to them. It isn't going away any time soon.

Poaching still goes on in the amazon rain forests too...

And in Africa.

Because desperate people do desperate things.

Thought for the day. Get angry, but also consider yourself blessed!
 

Scott

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Another poster-case for "money is the root of all evil." The corollary is, of course, money responsibly used is nirvana!

Many zoos will "dispose" of unwanted offspring by selling to other zoos or via "brokers" and ultimately to the black market. In some notorious circumstances they will publicly euthanize and dissect the animal - a zoo in Denmark took pride in such demonstration.

A few years ago the local press fanned the flames of wildlife sales by the San Diego Zoo, a world-class institution.
 

Jayyj

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Funny you should post this just now, I received a book on endangered species for Christmas and it's shocking how many parrot species regularly kept as pets. Sun conures, once common in Brazil, now estimated between 1000 and 2500 adults in the wild. Blue throated macaws, less than 100 in the wild. Red crown amazons around 2000, yellow crested cockatoo possibly as few as 1500... the guide lists dozens of endangered parrot species, fifteen critically endangered and one (spix macaw) probabky extinct in the wild, with trapping for the bird trade the single biggest threat.

However as Birdman says, although it's easy to blame those putting the birds into the black market, there are often social conditions that motivate people to trade these species that go beyond simple greed. Trapping of wild birds in South America happens because it puts food on tables that might otherwise go empty, slash and burn agriculture provides jobs and sustinance to impoveraged communities. Convincing those people that they need to stop what they're doing in order to protect endangered species, when what they're doing is the one means available to them to provide for themselves and their families, it's a difficult conversation to have.
 

Birdman666

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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Give the people an alternative means of survival, and they'll take it.

Until then, they'll do what they need to do to survive.

Some might even feel bad about it.
 

veimar

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Arghh, makes me so pissed off! And if those endangered species ended up in the hands of responsible people it wouldn't be so sad. But they end up in the homes of mafia bosses where nobody really cares about them. :(
 

Emilymaggie

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Most of the major zoos in the US are accredited facilities. Either under ZAA or AZA. Any accredited zoo or aquarium has an annual inspection from the USDA where the facility is inspected for safety for the animals, guests, keepers,etc. every transfer in and out has to be documented and you better believe USDA checks those! So while not all zoos are accredited and can, unfortunately, do what they want with their animals- most zoos nowadays are either under AZA or ZAA and every animal is accounted for.

I know we are talking about Europe, but just putting your minds at ease for the U.S. :)
 
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Birdman666

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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Most of the major zoos in the US are accredited facilities. Either under ZAA or AZA. Any accredited zoo or aquarium has an annual inspection from the USDA where the facility is inspected for safety for the animals, guests, keepers,etc. every transfer in and out has to be documented and you better believe USDA checks those! So while not all zoos are accredited and can, unfortunately, do what they want with their animals- most zoos nowadays are either under AZA or ZAA and every animal is accounted for.

I know we are talking about Europe, but just putting your minds at ease for the U.S. :)

I've actually been on the wrong end of this one...

One of the last rescue's Rachel and I were called on involved some... shall we say... species that no one in this country was supposed to have. Including some species we weren't even sure still existed outside of captive breeding programs... (or at all.)

We checked with all the zoos, and captive breeding programs but no one would touch them. Taking in black market birds was a big no no... there was simply no legal way to place these. (There was a very wealthy black market breeder/collector in Florida who died, leaving over one hundred birds...) We placed the ones that were legal to own in legit rescues. The rest required special placement...

Those birds were placed in a captive breeding program... just not here. And not exactly above board. But someone had to take them in and care for them...

And 20 years or so from now, a colony of previously thought to be extinct (or nearly parrots, will miraculously still exist... in an bizarre and out of the way place where no one expected them to be, or would think to look for them... Hmmm... someone must've had an under the table breeding colony of Spix's that escaped, or were let go. Now they're thriving here in the states... no one knows how they got there... but they're no longer classified as extinct.

The person that has them knows what he is doing...

My Rachel did that..

I hope I live long enough to see "the big reveal."

I don't remember all of them, but there were cuban and carribean amazons, and a breeding colony of spix macaws... about 20 birds.

The largest colony of spix macaws in the United States, doesn't actually exist. Because if it is, the person trying to save them, would get in serious trouble...

And the Brasilian Government can't be trusted. We tried that already. What happened to those birds was exactly this post... Officially they died due to poor quarantine procedures. Unofficially?! They most likely ended up on the black market...

I've kept this secret for more than five years... I don't know why I'm posting this now.

It's not always a black and white issue.

The collector/smuggler who illegally obtained these birds didn't trust people, and was being pro-active. He was wealthy enough to do it. (I'm not sure if it was status, or love of them, or the thought of being the only one on earth that still has one. Probably all of the above.)

I hope I get to see the wild american Spix's someday... Then again, maybe I'm just naive... maybe they'll end up being sold on the black market too.

It wouldn't be the first time. But, Rachel had a plan, and it was a good one... I believe it will work. Transplanted colony in Pantanal Del Norte, USA.

There is still hope...
 
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Delfin

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I do believe that the people who buy these animals from the black market would look after them. After all these people would pay out huge amounts of money and not look after their "INVESTMENT"?. $40,000 is a lot to pay out for one bird.

But the real shame is that the powers to be are more concerned with the taking in of black market animals rather then the status of the endangered species. If the animal is endangered and is seized or given from an illegal source. then why give a ****. The endanger animal has just had it captive breeding program gene pool increased. This increases the breeding stock which means more offspring hopefully.

They will seize a drug lords assets and sell them off to recoup losses. But the animals are different. NO we can't place them in a zoo because they were obtained illegality. SOMETIMES THE LAW IS STUPID.

Just frustrated at the stupidity of our law makers. I will go now.

Birdman666 you're a living legend, just up the excellent work.
 

Birdman666

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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Delfin;452397 Birdman666 you're a living legend said:
I didn't do anything. Someone called Rachel. Rachel called me. I made a few phone calls, and we placed the ones that could be placed...

RACHEL on the other hand, rented a couple of trucks, and moved the birds that couldn't be placed. Somewhere where they won't be found, with someone we all believe to be trustworthy...

SHE is the one who set the wheels in motion on this one... all I did was love her.

A month later she was dead... and I am alone (and drunk) on new years eve, in the house we were supposed to be sharing... and missing her terribly at the moment.

I didn't make it to Florida on that trip. She was glowing when I talked to her on the phone, and she described the birds she got to play with... and the scheme she and her girlfriends were hatching.

I did nothing. I called a few zoo contacts. A few captive breeding programs. All of whom turned us down, and advised us not to get caught.

I made the calls because I actually had NOTHING to do with it, and didn't even know the location of the estate. (I didn't ask. Didn't want to know. Big estate. Cuban gentleman. Somewhere in Florida.)

If the Pantanal comes to the USA, it will be the Rachel's doing, the doing of a couple of her friends, and a certain highly qualified large macaw breeder who shall remain nameless...

I know they set up a warehouse for breeding. I don't know where exactly.

I only know about it, and was supposed to keep my mouth shut.

I can't even do that anymore!
 
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Birdman666

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San Antonio, TX
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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Another poster-case for "money is the root of all evil." The corollary is, of course, money responsibly used is nirvana!

.

Is money the root of this evil?! Or is it the complete absence of money...

If they had the funding they needed, it wouldn't be happening as much.

They don't. So they sell their souls, and the birds, and what ever else they can..

.
 

Birdman666

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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
After all these people would pay out huge amounts of money and not look after their "INVESTMENT"?. $40,000 is a lot to pay out for one bird.

.

40K wouldn't even buy you a spix macaw's molted tail feather! If you could find the guy who had the feather!

The relatives just wanted them out of there real quiet like... they knew what their uncle had, and they didn't want to answer any questions, or any trouble.

Show up with a truck, and get them out of here by Wednesday...

Which actually, was pretty incredibly generous of the family, if you ask me.

No one thought to say what do you think something like that is worth. They said we can't take care of them, we know he had some you're not supposed to have, so we can't sell them, can you help us?!

Rachel said yes.

Rachel always said yes.

She always took in strays...

I can't say for sure, but I think at one time, I was one of them...
 

Hawk

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And the Brasilian Government can't be trusted. We tried that already. What happened to those birds was exactly this post... Officially they died due to poor quarantine procedures. Unofficially?! They most likely ended up on the black market...

There is still hope...

I've been to Brazil, on company business before. They have people down there that hunt and trap Parrots and cook them up like cornish hens. To see them actually slaughter them in person made me sick to my stomach.

But the poor do strange things to survive down there. Like being on an Alien world actually....Hard to comprehend.
 

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