Losing Budgie’s Trust

[erlabella]

I decided to first get one budgie, so it would be easier to tame and train it, but later on when he was tame I felt sad for him cause he was so lonely, so I brought another budgie, a female, into our home. Now, at the time I brought her in, my budgie showed symptoms of some sort of respiratory issue. I had to force feed him his medicine, and in doing so I started losing his trust. He wasn’t 100% tame when I brought the female budgie home and because of that, he’s chosing to bond with her instead. Eventually, my female budgie got infected too and I started losing her trust too. I don’t care if they’re tame or not, as long as they’re happy, but of course it would be nice to have great trustworthy bond with both of them. They’re currently kept in the same cage.

I was just wondering if anyone here has any tips on how to regain their trust again. Should I seperate them for now and bond with them individually or should I go for the hard way by trying to bond with both of them at the same time in the same cage? Would it be cruel to seperate them into different rooms or could I keep them in the same one? For the taming and training, I figured I’d just try all over again from the start. First trustbuilding, then stepping up, and then I’d like to go for clicker training. Feel free to give me any advice, experience or tips, as I’m completely lost on what I should be doing. I guess the timing was pretty bad

 

[Owlet]

First I would figure out what in the environment was causing these infections and eliminate it if you havent already. Two birds getting an infection around the same time makes me believe there is something environmental.

Are they in the same cage? I would get them in separate cages and just allow them to hang out outside of the cages. Birds are more likely to bond with each other rather than the human, especially if housed together.

But really I think you're on a good path.

 

[erlabella]

The birds were never diagnosed since I went to a traditional vet. Unfortunately there are no avian vets in my country, so proper diagnosis and treatment is limited. I was told that it was possibly a fungal infection, it was hard to get rid of and was given itraconazole to treat the birds, which would help them temporarily . Without a diagnosis, it’s tricky to know exactly what’s causing it unfortunately

I’ve been thinking about seperating them but have never gotten to it. I’m wondering if it’s acceptable to seperate them into different rooms. I tried it before when my male budgie showed signs of the infection. I seperated them, cause I was worried it was something contagious, for maybe a month or two, and the bond grew stronger eventually.

 

[Owlet]

Do you have any zoos, avian rescues / sanctuaries, poultry vets that you could contact for medical suggestions?

 

[erlabella]

Sadly no. No avian experts here. Only one pet shop and one animal rescue (mostly dogs and cats).

 

[EllenD]

Do you have any poultry vets, like a livestock vet who treats the poultry birds? This is better than a traditional or general vet, as a chicken is very close in anatomy/physiology to any parrot...Although, I also don't understand why any vet at all can't do a culture and sensitivity on both your birds???? All they do is take a swab of their nostrils/throat and to a normal culture/sensitivity, the same as they would on any dog or cat who has an infection...This would diagnose the exact microbe that is causing the infection, either the specific bacteria or fungi, and would also tell them exactly what antibiotic and/or anti-fungal medicine the microbe would be sensitive to...They do this on dogs and cats every day, and it's no different...They should also do a Fecal culture on their droppings as well..

As far as your relationship with your birds...This is exactly why you should never, ever bring home a second bird for your first bird, because you think it's "lonely" or it "needs a friend"...Your first Budgie did not lose trust in you at all, nor did his relationship deteriorating have anything at all to do with the fact that he wasn't fully-tamed when you brought the new bird home...

Regardless of what type of bird you have, how long you've had them, or how close your bond is with them (you could have a Macaw that you've had since it was hatched, hand-fed it yourself, and have the closest bond with the bird possible for years and years, and this could happen), whenever you bring-home another bird, specifically a bird of the same species and of the opposite sex, you run the risk of completely losing your bond/relationship with your bird...They may absolutely hate each other and attach/hurt each other, they may simply tolerate each other but not really like each other, they may like each other a lot but not bond closely enough to mate, or they may bond extremely closely and if of the opposite sex may start mating...These are the possibilities, and there's absolutely no way to know what will happen until you put them together..So it seems that when you brought home the second Budgies, they bonded very closely with each other...And when two birds bond very closely with each other, they tend to dissolve any close bonds/relationships with human beings. It has nothing at all to do with "earning his trust back" at all, and nothing to do with the fact that he wasn't fully hand-tamed when you brought the second bird home, as I said, you could have been spending every moment of every day with him attached to you and cuddly with you, and still when you brought that second Budgie home he would have totally bailed on you and wanted nothing to do with you...

Why does this happen? Well, it's pretty simple actually, because they much prefer a close bond/relationship with one of their own species over a human...You said that you thought your first Budgie was "lonely" and "needed a friend", which was why you brought the second Budgie home, but you were supposed to be his "friend" and keep him from being lonely. If you form a close bond with a bird as "it's person", and you spend a good amount of time with them every day, then they don't need another bird to be their friend...And you see what can possibly happen and usually does happen if you do bring home another bird for them...

So the answer to your question is quite simple, as Owlet already explained..If you want to have a close bond or relationship with either of your Budgies at this point, the only way to have that happen is to completely separate them into their own cages, with lots of their own toys, their own food/water, etc. And you'll also most-likely have to keep them in separate rooms too, as if you have them in separate cages but in the same room so that they can see each other, they will most-likely just cry all day long to be with each other...The other issue you're going to run-into here if they are an opposite-sex pair with such a close bond and living in the same cage is that they will most-likely start mating eventually, and the last thing you want are baby birds in an environment that is making them sick...So you essentially need to break the bond between the two birds...

However, if you're going to do this, then you really need to make a commitment to spending a large amount of time each and every day with both birds separately, as first of all you'll not be able to bond closely with either of them if you don't do this, and it's going to take time for a bond to develop with each of them, so you must have patience as well, because it could take months and months...Plus, it's not fair to either of them at this point if you separate them and then don't commit to spending a large amount of time with each of them on a daily basis. But if you're willing to make that large a commitment to each of them, then that's what you need to do..

Something else that you might want to consider, and obviously this is totally up to you, but you may want to think about re-homing the second bird to another responsible, loving home that will spend ample daily time with her. This will ensure that both birds will get lots and lots of time and affection every day, and that each can form strong bonds with their "people" or "person"...And if you want to have that type of relationship with your male bird that you've had the longest, then this might be the best thing you can do, for both the birds and for yourself...Just a suggestion.

 

[MonicaMc]

If both are healthy now, I'd recommend keeping them caged together. I do not believe that you need to separate them in order to tame them, nor do I believe that you must clip them or remove them from their cage.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUx81WHTUwk"]1 Bird in hand Leads to Many - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlSm4uFZzVU"]More Budgies!!!! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[EllenD]

If both are healthy now, I'd recommend keeping them caged together. I do not believe that you need to separate them in order to tame them, nor do I believe that you must clip them or remove them from their cage.


1 Bird in hand Leads to Many - YouTube


More Budgies!!!! - YouTube

I'll respectfully disagree with Monica, as we're talking about Budgies here, and over my 32 years of owning, breeding, and raising Budgies, it's extremely difficult to have a close relationship with two Budgies of the opposite sex that are living together...Extremely difficult. And this is forgetting the entire mating/breeding issue as well, as if two Budgies of the opposite sex bond this closely to one another, they almost always start mating and laying continuous clutches of fertile eggs...and female Budgies are extremely prone to laying clutch after clutch after clutch in this situation, and unlike a lot of other species of birds, the average clutch size is around 6 eggs, with a lot of females laying up in the teens each clutch! Obviously this is horribly dangerous for the female, and a lot of female Budgies become egg-bound due to them continually laying large clutches.

Forgetting the mating/breeding issue, again, it will be extremely difficult for you to bond closely with either bird if you leave them living the same cage together...At the very least, i would put them in their own cage and maybe keep them in the same room so they can see and speak to each other, but even this arrangement can make it extremely difficult to bond with either Budgie again. And Budgies are sneaky little birds, so if you have a closely-bonded, opposite-sex pair of budgies, even if you separate them into their own cages yet keep them in the same room together (meaning that they usually will stay very closely bonded to one another) and you only allow them to be together out-of-cage while you are supervising them, they often find a way to quickly mate/breed anyway, if you're not watching them every minute that they are out together...But the main issue here is that you want to get your relationship with your bird back, or with both birds, and in my own personal Budgie experience, which is long and involved extensive breeding (both my mother and grandmother bred both American and English Budgies for decades as well), it is just so difficult to get an opposite-sex pair of Budgies who are already so closely-bonded to one another to open-up and also want to bond with a person, that you could literally spend hours each day working with each of them and get no where...It's just the reality of the situation...

You need to decide what your goal is in-regard to what type of relationship you really want to have with each bird, what your expectations are, and what you will ultimately be happy with and be alright with in-terms of your closeness to your bird, or birds, and then make a decision from there. And please keep the entire mating/breeding issue in the front of your mind when you are making this decision, as if you are not an experienced bird-breeder or if you don't want to have baby birds, then this is also going to have to be a large part of your decision...for this reason alone I think you need to at the very least separate them into their own cages with their own toys, dishes, etc., and maybe try keeping them in the same room this way, in separate cages, and start working with each of them, one-on-one, in a room separate from where the other bird is at while you're doing it, and do this each day with each bird for between 30-60 minutes, and after a couple of months of doing this, see how it's going...remember that this process is a marathon, not a sprint, and even if you have only a single bird, taming it can take months and months, so it require patience...

 

[GaleriaGila]

For more reading, here's a thread citation from our wonderful reeb...
http://www.parrotforums.com/budgies-parakeets/72068-taming-bonding-budgerigars-tips-beginners.html
Thanks, reebsie!

 

[erlabella]

Thank you guys I’ve seperated them into different cages now but still in the same room. It’s only day 2, so I have not made any progress yet on bonding. The thing you said about bringing a second bird into the home blew my mind haha. I’ve never heard nor read about it. I thought it was only smaller birds like budgies, parrotlets and lovebirds etc. who’d rather bond with each other than any human. I’ve been thinking a lot about what to do and honestly I’m still thinking.. What I meant when I said my bird was getting “lonely” was that I really didn’t have time to keep him company during the day as I have to go to school. I know, if I don’t have time for him why did I get him? I thought I had time, and I did, but eventually school got harder and stuff and I had lots of homework, and the fact that I have other animals to take care of too, which uses up a lot of my time. So I bought a second budgie, so he’d have some company. Honestly, I’d rather have them be happy and not lonely nor bonded, than having one lonely but bonded budgie. I have summer vacation right now, so I have plenty of time to bond with bond of them, but when school starts, not so much. I really need some advice here. I was able to bond with him really quickly, when I first got him (he was 3-4 months old when I got him). After only two months of having him, I got him to step on my finger. At this time he was my only budgie. I figured, if I was able to bond with him, was he really lonely? Could this work if I gibe him plenty of toys to play with and try to squeeze in some interacting time, or should I go for the safe way and keep both of them and continue on what I’m doing? I know a girl who would like to own a budgie. I was thinking about giving my female budgie to her temporarily, so she can figure out if she really want’s a budgie, and I could figure out if I’m capable of keeping my budgie alone. Or would it stress them out too much? What do you think? I’m really stuck on this.

 

[MonicaMc]

Because I was feeding 5 budgies by hand every day, a cockatiel that was living in a flock with other cockatiels and was previously tame but then ignored decided she also wanted that same interaction that the budgies were getting. It took me two weeks to figure it out, but once I did, she was much happier!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q88bN30qOjo"]Sunshine in the Morning - YouTube[/ame]


And because I was doing this behavior with that cockatiel, a second cockatiel that had at least 3 prior homes to mine and I know that the past two probably didn't even interact with her in any physical manner (her mate even died in the last one...) was watching the first cockatiel... and wanted that same behavior. I have "before" and "after" videos with her as well. This is the before.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9w9w8nMRmw"]Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]



Compared to the "after". A *huge* difference in my opinion! She was never clipped, never separated. She lived cage-free in a large room (~11' x 14'?) with the other cockatiels.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH9ZWxhCSAE"]Not So Hesitant Faye - YouTube[/ame]


And the following video... the normal grey male cockatiel? That's Sunshine's father. He and his mate were picked up at an animal shelter then used as breeders. Pistachio was *SO* skittish and scared of humans. I didn't separate him, I didn't clip him. He watched the other cockatiels interacting with me and he became even more trusting than any other cockatiel there (aside from Casey) when it came to this interaction. He (and his family) came out of a smoke filled home. I have no doubt that he was a parent raised bird. Also seen is Tomi Girl, who came out of a smoke filled home, ceiling stained yellow, house overrun with sick cats and kittens, no clue what her previous home was like, they kept her covered a lot of the time because she was "too noisy" and "simply forgot" to feed her so she was about on deaths bed when I picked her up.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjKmHswgiHs"]Cockatiel Feeding - April 24th - YouTube[/ame]



It's not impossible, nor does it need to be "extremely difficult" to form relationships with birds who are housed together.

 

[erlabella]

I have noticed a bit of the same behavior with my budgies too. When I got my female budgie I didn’t train her like I trained my first budgie. She saw that my male budgie stepped up on my finger so she did it too (not instantly, but after a few days). Now, when they’re seperated, I’ll have to train her the same way you train every other bird when you first bring them into your home, because she’s still nervous around me when she’s alone. You did an amazing job on rescuing those poor birds<3

 

[EllenD]

I'd suggest now that you have the separated that you "hit the reset button" and start completely over with both of them, like you just got each of them. Make your best effort to work with both of them every day for as long as you can...And do make sure that they both have lots and lots of toys for entertainment when you're not at home...

The other thing that can help this is to ensure, if you haven't done this already, that both their cages are located in the "room where the action is" in your home, meaning the room that you spend most of your time in when you're at home. Usually this is the living room, TV room, family room, etc. Wherever you relax and watch TV, read, do your school work, play video games, eat your meals, etc. A lot of people put their birds in a spare room/bedroom, or think of making a "bird room" for them...that's fine, but if you're trying to hand-tame them and bond with them, just being in the same room that you are, even if you're not directly interacting with them can do wonders for taming them, as they become very used to seeing you, hearing you, and just being around you. Plus, they are much more likely to entertain themselves inside of their cages if they are in your presence, as they feel comforted, more secure, etc. And also, when a bird can hear you in the house but can't see you, this can create a lot of issues for them...So just having them with you in the house and where others in your home usually spend their time can help tremendously...