My 2.7 ounces fierce aviator!

[Luciana]

So I got a crimson-belllied from a breeder, and the wings that been clipped already. Except that little Lucca still takes short flights, and if he's somewhere high, he'll glide in 45 degrees. The thing is, he is TOO young to be flying, you can't tell me that Nature was wise to make him like this. That's because he's a beginner, and then he flies aimlessly and hits a door head first. He can't land well, and he should learn it some day. But for that I need a parrot I can train, one that will sit and wait instead of plotting his next fly at all times. Should I work on reprimending him when he takes off from the table where I feed
him? And how am I ever going to train him on anything if he refuses to stay put?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/aXdkJajsGkfDjGaZA

Let's hop the picture works.

 

[charmedbyekkie]

A few things to hopefully help you..

Please read this link: https://www.exoticdirect.co.uk/news/how-train-bird-using-positive-reinforcement

Now, he is a bird. Birds fly - that is natural; however, his wings are clipped which means his ability to fledge properly is a bit stunted. That being said, his desire to fly is healthy and natural. If he can fly, it’ll improve his respiratory and cardio systems. Yes, babies do crash land, and that’s why baby feathers are terribly damaged (and why they have a big molt near the end of their baby days).

Next, I strongly encourage you to read the link above. In addition, start from the understanding that he is NOT a mammal. Things don’t work the same in the avian world. You can’t expected that intelligent brain to just sit and wait for you to train him. You’re expecting him to show up to school without him understanding why he has to sit in a chair and what he has to do.

However, you can work together to figure out how to make it beneficial for him to work with you. How can you make ‘school' to be the playgroup or arcade instead? There are still rules of the game that he will learn, but he’ll enjoy it and learn what you’re asking for.


On a very superficial level (I won’t get into the deeper level because I hope I’m misreading things), what you’re asking for is stationary training. Stationary training means giving them a reason to stay at a station, effectively. That means, for parrots, positive association with the space. So a treat for going to the perch, a treat after a few second (or minutes) for staying on the perch, etc.

On top of that, what other incentive does he have for staying put there? Does he understand trick training? Does he even know the basics of stepping up (and that stepping up gets him a reward of a treat)? If you haven’t established the rules, you can’t expect him to follow something you haven’t clearly communicated to him about. And you can’t expect him to understand your human language when you aren’t speaking his parrot language.

Our little guy is fully-flighted, and it’s unbelievably easy to train him once you’ve done a quick demo of how he benefits from training. He is incredibly food-oriented, and once I actually spent time on positive association - he’s pretty good about stationary training, but then again, I’m not insistent on stationary training like I am on recall (and he recalls 99.99% of the time).


Remember training a bird is more about training the human. Instead of “And how am I ever going to train him on anything if he refuses to stay put?”, think “How can I incentivise him to stay?” “How can I teach him in a way he understands?”

 

[Laurasea]

He has a biological urge to fledge!!! It programed into them at this life stage. You can not train it out of him at this stage of his young Life, he is going through fledging. Also ist a huge developmental milestone. Birds that aren't allowed to fledge usually have life long physiological problems, lack of confidence, more prone to plucking, and don't reach peak body development.

Birds only have this urgge to fledge that drives them past their fear of falling at this one time in their life. And should be allowed to learn to fly well before clipping ( if you must ) wings. Do not further clip his wings! Adult birds who didn't fledge and learn to fly, almost never do!!! They also usually don't have the confidence to leap from perch to perch.

Help him learn to fly, provide soft landings. This is a critical time. After he learns to fly ,
and right now that's all his brain can think about,
nature is driving this. Then you work on other training, and he won't be prone to flights after he past fledging.

I keep all my birds flighted . They come to me, hang out on their play stands, and get lots of exercise.

 

[wrench13]

Just an aside comment - parrots do not respond well to reprimand type training, unlike most mammals. They do better if you can get the parrot to think the idea was theirs. Look up "target training', you can try to incoporate that in his flight training. Also a nice big soft bed is a great place to train on landings, maybe to a proffered treat.

 

[Luciana]

A few things to hopefully help you..

Please read this link: https://www.exoticdirect.co.uk/news/how-train-bird-using-positive-reinforcement

Thanks for that! Skimmed through it, will certainly read it more carefully.

My only experience is with heavily clipped birds (two Amazons when I was a child/teenager), and I want things to be better this time. I did not have the resources back then to make informed decisions. One was eventually re-homed (and I regret that), another died at 19 years of age - it could and should have lived longer, and the culprit might have been a very poor diet. I've been really focusing on giving the best diet possible for a growing parrot.

On a very superficial level (I won’t get into the deeper level because I hope I’m misreading things), what you’re asking for is stationary training. Stationary training means giving them a reason to stay at a station, effectively. That means, for parrots, positive association with the space. So a treat for going to the perch, a treat after a few second (or minutes) for staying on the perch, etc.

You're right, that's what I was thinking and lacked the terminology for it.

On top of that, what other incentive does he have for staying put there? Does he understand trick training? Does he even know the basics of stepping up (and that stepping up gets him a reward of a treat)? If you haven’t established the rules, you can’t expect him to follow something you haven’t clearly communicated to him about. And you can’t expect him to understand your human language when you aren’t speaking his parrot language.

He's stepping up willingly without any treats. I use only one word "Pé" (rhyme with "meh" ) and he steps up. His reward is that I take him somewhere.

Remember training a bird is more about training the human. Instead of “And how am I ever going to train him on anything if he refuses to stay put?”, think “How can I incentivise him to stay?” “How can I teach him in a way he understands?”

Got it, thanks. Will work on identifying what Lucca thinks a treat is. I'm still working on building diversity, that is, getting him to eat all kinds of fruits I put in front of him. Want my parrot to be a true flexitarian.

 

[Luciana]

Help him learn to fly, provide soft landings. This is a critical time. After he learns to fly ,
and right now that's all his brain can think about,
nature is driving this. Then you work on other training, and he won't be prone to flights after he past fledging.

He was clipped at the breeder, that is, some two weeks ago, and he can lift already. I mean, he lifts his body enough to fly about a foot from the floor. That is fine. It's when he's on the kitchen table and sets out to FLY, which means doing a 45 degree angle into ANYTHING, that gets me scared. Because it's obvious that the little thing still has poor planning skills, and then he lands HARD and I'm heartbroken. I always observe to see if his behavior is withdrawn afterwards, which is never the case, he's as playful as ever. Still... When he flew from my shoulder into the kitchen table - understandable, there was a banana there. Perhaps the poor planning skill was mine.

I keep all my birds flighted . They come to me, hang out on their play stands, and get lots of exercise.

Could anyone point out a good reference for the whole flying thing? I'm still deciding whether this will be a fully flighted or a clipped-wing bird. Want to weigh the pros and cons, etc.

 

[Luciana]

Just an aside comment - parrots do not respond well to reprimand type training, unlike most mammals. They do better if you can get the parrot to think the idea was theirs. Look up "target training', you can try to incoporate that in his flight training. Also a nice big soft bed is a great place to train on landings, maybe to a proffered treat.

I'm trying him not to nibble on my earlobes, at least not. too. hard. Don't tell me this won't be possible.

 

[Laurasea]

Here is one article , I look for some others
https://blogpamelaclarkonline.com/tag/letting-birds-fly/
My bird was clipped by breeder before he learned to fly /fledge I got him very young at 6 weeks. His mind would only focus on trying to fly, and he would launch into the air to crash into the ground. I worked with him in my carpeted bedroom and let him land on my bed. While waited for feathers to grow in. Some people will go do far as to get a vet to do a feather implant because this is such an important life stage. He actually was able to learn to fly even he got two flight feathers, an amazing guy. I can't look now, but will later for some more articles. I think Sailboat I love Amazon's the blue thread at top of Amazon forum talks about this at some point, he certainly talks about the life long damage never learning to fly at this critical age has on adult birds. It extremely hard for a post fledging bird to ever learn to fly. I strongly recommend that you let the feathers grow out, let him learn to fly well. Then if you decide clipping is what you need to do then clip. Because once he has learned to fly, he can again anytime you decide letting the feathers grow out is better.

A great article, touches on force weaning and the chronic stress of not being allowed to fledge, but mostly how to eliminate stress in the daily life of a parrot. https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/stress-reduction-for-parrot-companions/

 

[Laurasea]

Ok found one. Importance of learning to fly in every aspect of parrot life, thinking on the wing. Excerpt: Learning to fly well is the most complicated and important task a parrot can learn. Flighted parrots are healthier, more active, more coordinated, and have much better vision. Flying promotes higher intelligence, self-confidence, self-esteem and ultimately makes a more social long-term companion.

Read more: https://www.windycityparrot.com/blog/2010/04/13/flight-important-parrots/#ixzz62HloSvKV
Follow us: @windycityparrot on Twitter
https://www.windycityparrot.com/blog/2010/04/13/flight-important-parrots/

Follow up article on pro flight for you to read.
https://www.parrots.org/ask-an-expert/wing-clipping-vs-flighted-companion-parrots

 

[charmedbyekkie]

Treats can come in all shapes and sizes, but they're treats - not part of the main diet.

So while your diet may be veggies and some fruits, a treat would be either a very special fruit that he doesn't normally get (a pomegranate seed) or a nut. Our guy loves almonds, and he gets a tiny piece (maybe 2mmx2mm at most) for doing a trick. Not too much, but just enough that he feels incentivised.

While being moved somewhere else could be a positive thing in his mind, it could also be a negative thing if he wanted to stay on a space. Just think of it from your perspective - you're sitting or playing somewhere, and your parent comes by and says, "ey, let's go now." Either you are excited to go to wherever (if you know where you're going or if you're bored where you're currently at) or you don't want to go (the infamous "but mooooooooom, I don't wanna gooooooo").

I encourage you to find a special, special treat that you only use for training, so it's quite clear to him that doing something (the trick) gets him a clear reward (the treat).

 

[Luciana]

Still ongoing story... so his wings were mildly clipped some 5 weeks ago, and I've had him for 3 weeks. AND OH MY GOD HE FLIES! All the time, with gusto, and a bit clumsy, but you cannot beat his enthusiasm!!

He can't fly into my shoulder yet, but from the floor he can reach up to my waist. Also it's a thing of beauty to see him calculating how he will reach me. So he flies to the sofa, then to the sofa's arm, then into a chair's back, then into my shoulder . How SMART is that? He's not even 10 weeks old!

@Laurasea: I will have a full flighted bird, there is no doubt. No way I can clip his wings, seeing how delighted he is to go to places. If he had never learned... but he's a natural, a little beast, the fiercest tiny conure...