My hands are covered in blood

ravvlet

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Opie's a Quaker and he's still super young, so it's been really easy to shape his behavior so far.

Where I volunteer, I actually just walk away from the Amazons if they don't want to step up or if they turn to face me directly. I've only been there six months and they don't trust me fully yet. I'm the one doing things in the wrong order ;) where they've been doing it the same way for years and years.

I think you had meant to quote Cotton and not me haha! She’s right on the money about Amazons. If they aren’t cooperating you walk away and try again later.

I realize quoting Cotton here was a confusing move and my only explanation is that I’ve just finished my coffee and my brain isn’t firing on all cylinders. o_O
 

ravvlet

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Kirby - OWA, 33yrs old (2019-)
Sammy - YNA, 45 yrs old (2022-)
RIP Cricket - Cockatiel (2019-2022)
She has a vet appointment coming up. But why would she rip my flesh off one minute and then act sweet as pie the next?

Hormone season! They really can’t control themselves. They get a little kick of hormones and just lose it. Think about humans and involuntary behavioral changes due to things like blood sugar spikes or hot flashes.
 
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FieryPhoenix

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Hormone season! They really can’t control themselves. They get a little kick of hormones and just lose it. Think about humans and involuntary behavioral changes due to things like blood sugar spikes or hot flashes.

I am sure not even treats could distract her. I believe she is triggered by Nikki when they are in the cage. I planned to get them a larger cage, but I don't know if that would solve the problem.

My Sun laid eggs last year and was highly bitey. I have scars.

I won't lie, I am tempted to try Lupron to prevent the egg-laying, at least.
 

HeatherG

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Maybe you touched something that hurt? I’m just guessing. Like if her leg hurt and you touched it she might bite. I’ve certainly seen this behavior in other animals.
 
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FieryPhoenix

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Maybe you touched something that hurt? I’m just guessing. Like if her leg hurt and you touched it she might bite. I’ve certainly seen this behavior in other animals.

No, I didn't touch anything, just offered my hand in certain situations. If anything was hurting her, I wouldn't be able to pet her. I can still pet her and she will step up onto my hand from a handheld perch.
 

Cottonoid

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So does it work every time to let your Quaker out first and then have your Sun step up on a perch?

If it does, I would just do that consistently.
 
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FieryPhoenix

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So does it work every time to let your Quaker out first and then have your Sun step up on a perch?

If it does, I would just do that consistently.
Yeah I may stick with that.

I got off the phone with someone who is like a second mother to me.

She said to ket nature be and to not impose my will on them.

I think maybe that’s one reason why Sunny has been biting me. Maybe she can tell when she’s being asked vs me imposing on her. I Aldi think she could be hormonal.

I think the real root of the issue is that I have these two birds and one bird rarely draws blood and other to be more lord that.

Then I think about the future. If Quaher dies and Sun is the sole survivor will she bite me even more because her buddy is gone. I would expect a grieving period but I think over time I would be able to handle her.

I just worry.

And I do feel like I failed her because I had her all these years and yet she still bites me.

Birds are not supposed to biters right ? They don’t do that in the wild.
 

HeatherG

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I know Willow bites me if I “make” him step up when he doesn’t feel like it or is ready for bed. Same thing, I guess.
 

wrench13

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What happens with Amazons? With Salty, a non-hot 3 Amazon, if he is in a good mood, ie; not mating season, he usually takes finger or hand into his mouth and politely pushes you away. During mating season, he is way more likely to bite for no good reason, so I take full assesment of his body language before offering my hand or finger for a step up. Note I said no good reason; he gets insulted way more easily, if a meal is not on time, or I skip a training session because I am out or not feeling well. Insulted Salty is more likely to bite. However his bites are rather minor, drawing a pinprick amount of blood. Our friend Jim, with his BFA Amy and Salty and I had playdates, and Amy, 2X as large as Salty, would nail me every time, and his bite was WAY more signifficant. Not even in the same ballpark.
 
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FieryPhoenix

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I know Willow bites me if I “make” him step up when he doesn’t feel like it or is ready for bed. Same thing, I guess.

Yeah, I was imposing my will on her, clearly. Looking back, I was trying to control her. Not good, I know. I am just going to let them step up how they normally do.

For 17 years, they both stepped up on a perch together - Quaker, then Sun. Now it's the same thing but with my hand. If they go all over the place, I just have them step on a perch.

If these were two lions, I know I would mess with the way they due things, so I am guessing it's the same thing with birds.

In times when Sunny did step up on me first, it just happened. I never really initiated it.

Another problem is social media, seeing how people are so good with their birds and how there are so many "bird experts" out there. I always worry I am doing something wrong.
 
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FieryPhoenix

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UPDATE:

So far, so good. I got them both out of the cage first. I just moved my hand toward Quaker, and they both came on - Quaker first, immediately followed by the sun. I will keep going that route.

When they are out, I can pick up Sun with no problem. She likes attention (she does a few tricks). If I pick up Quaker, I give Sun a treat to reward her for staying there. I can pick up Quaker but not for too long because Sun starts to lightly move her wings as to say, "pick me up too." She wants to join in.

I train them together, but Sun enjoys it when I work with her more, hahaha! She loves doing flight recall.

I guess you got different flock dynamics with a human and two birds.

I am looking back on my progress over this past year. I wasn't always able to pick up Sun conure by herself. Only when I would pick up Quaker. Now I can pick her up, and she likes to make kiss sounds at me. She can fly and land on my hand instead of my shoulder. I can get her off my shoulder by having her step up onto my hand. She can do some tricks. She can follow a target around really well, much better than my Quaker. I can place that target anywhere, and she will go there whether she has to climb or step down from something.

She is a good girl. It was my fault for imposing my will on her. No more forcing a step up. If she says "no", even if there is a treat, I will either back off or use a handheld perch. Right now, Quaker is the best reinforcer LOL!
 

ravvlet

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Jun 25, 2019
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Kirby - OWA, 33yrs old (2019-)
Sammy - YNA, 45 yrs old (2022-)
RIP Cricket - Cockatiel (2019-2022)
What happens with Amazons? With Salty, a non-hot 3 Amazon, if he is in a good mood, ie; not mating season, he usually takes finger or hand into his mouth and politely pushes you away. During mating season, he is way more likely to bite for no good reason, so I take full assesment of his body language before offering my hand or finger for a step up. Note I said no good reason; he gets insulted way more easily, if a meal is not on time, or I skip a training session because I am out or not feeling well. Insulted Salty is more likely to bite. However his bites are rather minor, drawing a pinprick amount of blood. Our friend Jim, with his BFA Amy and Salty and I had playdates, and Amy, 2X as large as Salty, would nail me every time, and his bite was WAY more signifficant. Not even in the same ballpark.

The difference between Kirby’s bite (which is a lot like Salty) and Sammy (also a hot 3)- is unreal and by FAR the hardest thing for us to adjust to. She’s also more likely to bite, and I’ve never had a gentle bite from her - it’s her way or the highway. We pretty much don’t force her to do anything unless it’s a safety issue, and even then we try really hard to find a way that she’s comfortable with!

I think some birds are just more stubborn than others too. Sammy is really strong willed and it sounds like this Sun is too.
 

Shoegoo

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I use the towel if Squeaky acts aggressive. I read somewhere that they blame it on the towel. Anyway that's what the vet uses. No way do I use gloves. If she sees gloves it automatically alerts her that something bad is about to happen.
 

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