New black capped conure - Biting

[Deydrissa]

Hi everybody!
This is my first time to this forum, I just found the website on google . I'm hoping you could help me out a little.

My roommates bought a 3 month old BC conure in September and a couple weeks ago decided they just didn't have the time for it - they are very irresponsible pet owners. 9 cats, a dog, a chinchilla, and a hamster. none really get the attention they need.- this bird was bought from a breeder that handfed and she was very sweet in the beginning. well because they didn't think about the fact that they have NINE cats, poor bird was never out of her cage. maybe once a week for just 5 mins.

I decided to take her under my wing and try to make this work but I'm getting to the end. She bites all the time. its not really aggressive from what I can tell. she'll be nibbling your finger then CHOMP!! she's drawn blood a few times now. I've been working with her and it has improved -I blow in her face if she doesn't react to me sucking in sharply. for the most part she backs off before the force of wind comes. - I have tried the roll but she just bites harder. she also wont let you put her on the floor which is understandable. I read to put her back in the cage but I also read that's not a good idea because she'll either bite to be brought back or not view it as a safe place.

This is my first conure but I had a cockatiel like 10 years ago. they are so different its kind of crazy. he was a breeze lol

she's a really sweet bird and we are both getting attached to each other. I Leave her cage open all day unless I go upstairs to cook and she never sits at the cage. the second my back goes to her she flies right over and hangs out on my shoulder. the only problem is the biting because she nibbles ALOT and it always turned into a chomp. my husband is saying she's gonna have to go and my hearts breaking a bit. I know she can be a good bird. we have 2 children under 5 and this is why he's being so stern in it.

also, tricks on teaching her to step up? everytime I attempt she just bites me. I've tried bribing with food, she LOVES sweet peppers. makes it hard to get her off the back of my neck when she starts getting to nippy.

 

[MonicaMc]

Although the methods you have learned about "work", it can lead to more aggressive bites, unpredictable biting or even learned helplessness. That is, they have no say in the final outcome and simply give up.


Please read this thread.
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html


Using Positive Reinforcement Training techniques and similar ones (often under the guise of clicker training) can help you achieve the results you desire.

Check out this video for some guidance ($1 to view but worth it!)

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/rescuedparrot



And some other ideas and ponderings....

http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/36419-dealing-aggression-parrots.html

 

[LordTriggs]

the main thing right now is building a bond and boundaries.

Your BC most likely doesn't understand that they're hurting you, when you say they don't allow you to put them on the floor what do you mean? More biting or flying off? IMO anywhere can be used as a timeout, it just has to be not on you. Agree 100% in not using the cage, the cage is meant to be fun not a punishment. Before my conure was okay with my picking him up I would try laddering (stepping up multiple times) whilst looking away from me.

Also try to figure out if there is a trigger for biting, it's never their fault, something made them bite. The trick is finding out what, though like I say in this case I think it's not knowing their own strength being so young

 

[Deydrissa]

I really think she just doesn't know her own strength. I've been trying to read her body language but its not quite as simple as just seeing a crest go up!. She doesn't put her head down, wings back, or try to puff up at me. I can't tell if her eyes are pinning or not because of their color. the main time she bites is when say she's sitting on my hand. she nibbles around and pulls at my hairs - which I'm fine with because I can barely even feel her do it- , then finds a soft spot and just latches on. I wont be doing anything in particular. either watching her or whistling or going about my daily routine.

Ive been trying to praise whenever she doesn't bite. I completely understand the whole she's a baby angle. Hell ive been bit numerous times by my two children, but my husband he's not so convinced. he thinks she's just a bad bird. I tried telling him its probably like teething in a way. sort of what it seems like to me because she just slowly bites harder. like a kid whose gumming.

The whole floor thing is she just tries climbing up my arm or will fly away. Timeouts are also hard because if I try to get her off she just attacks my hand. which is why I started blowing at her. I made a makeshift perch for her that I can move around and try to put her on that, except she flies back the second I start moving away. She's being a little brat. I love that she wants to hang out and sit with me all day but for crying out loud! :56::56: she makes me too nervous to let her because she starts biting my ears and neck.

 

[MonicaMc]

Nibbling on your hands - don't let her. Instead, *GIVE* her something to do. Teach her to play with toys, or train new behaviors.

If you are having difficulties with that, then try having her on a play stand and give her things to do on the stand, but keep her close to you. Ambient attention can be just as good as physical attention.



She doesn't have any guidance, and blowing in her face, punishing her, or anything to try to directly stop the behavior doesn't tell her what *TO DO*, only what *NOT* to do.


I realize that it's difficult to avoid all bites, but if you can work on learning to read her, redirect unwanted attention, and start a basis of communication, it will get better. This is where training comes into play.

Target training is a great first behavior to teach. In fact, I even recommend training it while she's in her cage and the door is shut! If need be, place a special dish in the cage for her rewards.

Start by figuring out what you want to use as a target. This could be a knitting needle, a chopstick, or an empty pen case. Then figure out what her favorite treats are and use these as her rewards.


If she looks at the target, reward, repeat. If she moves her head towards the target, reward, repeat. If she takes a step towards the target, reward, repeat. If she takes another step towards the target, reward, repeat. Etc. She does not need to physically touch the target to be target trained - we just want her to orientate her beak towards it.

Teach her to target all around the inside of her cage for rewards - without opening the door. Once she's good at that, then open the door and start target training through the cage door. Then around the outside of her cage. Then start working on target training away from the cage.

With target training, you can teach her to step up, turn around or even climb down your shoulder.

 

[Deydrissa]

Thank you! I will try to do that. She seems a little nervous having things in her cage so it may be difficult. like I said earlier, she didn't have the best owners before. they use to spray her with water from across the room when she was in the cage squaking to much. they threw a few soft cat toys at it. she seems to trust me to a point right now and comes over. but even when I try to put treats in there, she hides in the corner. I feel so bad for her but I'm patient and will take the time.

I hope she will improve in the time I have. I love this cute little bugger. soon I hope I can trust her on my shoulder without having to pry my ear out of her beak.

Also, anybody know a good site or forum topic that has a good list of what I should and should not feed her. I found a complete list but theres every food under the sun on it and its hard to remember all that. i'm looking for more of the common foods that can and should not be fed as treats. Oh and is there a limit of how much fresh veggies I should feed? I know I read somewhere that some veggies they should be limited on.

 

[LordTriggs]

your analogy of teething is pretty close to what it is. My conure found spots he though imperfect and would get a bit rough trying to clean me but he learnt. Mine at the start was very much like yours, instantly flying back. What I did out of desperation was point him away from my and keep my hand cupped over his back so he couldn't fly off. It may be an idea to try?

Definitely give her things to do when out of the cage, conures are second only to lorikeets in terms of hyper. She may well just need stuff to do. Also make sure she's getting 12 hours dark cage time as they can and do get cranky

 

[MonicaMc]

She seems a little nervous having things in her cage so it may be difficult.

If she's afraid of the target - there is a work-around! If you can stand 10' away from her and show her the target and she doesn't respond, great! However, if you are 5' and she becomes terrified of the target, you are too close. This "game" can help teach her to not be afraid of the target.

Stand however many feet away from her that she doesn't really respond to seeing the target. Have the target in one hand and her rewards in the other, but keep your hands behind your back. Slowly show her the target (aka don't whip it out behind your back and startle her!), and if she remains calm, said good (or, if you have a clicker, click it!) and walk up to her and reward. Go back to where you were and repeat a few times.

Then take a step forward. Show, calm behavior, reward, repeat.

Any time she shows any indication of fear (freezes up or looks for an escape route), take a step back.


With time and repetition, you will be able to get close enough to her that she wont freak out. You can then move on to teaching her to come to the target.

even when I try to put treats in there, she hides in the corner.
You might try changing your approach to the cage. Maybe try approaching slower? Announcing yourself before you come by? Any time you *do* walk by, drop a treat into the cage and keep walking.

Another training technique, if she shows any fear when you approach, stop for a moment, allow her to calm down, then back off for a bit. Then try getting closer and stop again if she shows any sign of fear. Back off again, then approach.

If required, find a toy large enough that she can physically hide behind so she can feel "safe".


It's all about giving her choice and listening to her.


I had a conure that showed conflicting behavior. I had heard about this before, but had never personally witnessed it myself. She was extremely eager for human affection and just wanted physical interaction, but at the same time, she was afraid of it. If you walked up to her, she'd scamper away in fear. If you walked away from her, she'd attempt to follow you - without leaving her cage.

Instead of forcing her away from her cage where she felt safe, I left her on or in her cage, but moved the cage around the house. This was a 32 long x 21 wide cage, so not exactly a small cage, nor necessarily easy to maneuver around either (particularly from the room it was kept in, the door is in a short/small hallway that's made up of 3 doors [West, North and East facing doors] and 1 wall [west side] - door was on the side without the wall [east side] and it wasn't easy pulling it out of the room or moving it back in). This allowed her to be "with" me without having to be *ON* me. She still had the safety of her cage. Shortly after starting this, I then placed a perch on the outside of the cage, which allowed her to come down and sit "with" me, but again, still having the safety of her cage.

One day, two weeks after having her, she chose to climb down to my shoulder. Watching her, you could tell this took a lot of guts! I was actually sitting on the floor (I don't remember why I was sitting on the floor) and she kept climbing down from the top of her cage, but she'd freak out over the slightest thing and scamper back up. She repeated this behavior *multiple* times! But eventually, she got the guts up to climb onto my shoulder from the cage. She was *SO* happy and ecstatic she couldn't contain herself! She kept making a bunch of conure noises, bobbing her head, talking in my ear, etc.

Although this was a *HUGE* step for her, she still needed her cage. From then on, if she wanted to be with me, she had to climb onto my shoulder. However, any time she became fearful (started doing the "I'm scared" noises and looking for her cage), I *ALWAYS* took her back to her cage. At first, she'd go back to her cage and she didn't want to come back to me, but over time, how long she spent on her cage during one of these episodes became less and less, to the point that she just wanted to touch her cage then she'd turn around and climb back on me. Because I gave her choice and I listened to her needs, I became her 'safety blanket' - instead of her cage. If she was feeling afraid, she came to me instead of wanting to go to her cage. She even started flying to me once her flights grew in.

Her foster parent who is a "conure nut" (cares for mainly conures and has started rescue and rehoming of conures - primarily green cheeks) had her for 6 months and never got as far as I did in 2 weeks. (her climbing onto my shoulder for the first time was 2 weeks after I got her) Although her foster mom was able to give her scritches and handle her a little (primarily vet visits), this conure absolutely refused to leave her cage! Maybe the other conures didn't help? But her foster mom was more "her type" than I ever was! (this conure preferred sweet older women - I'm younger - foster mom already has grand kids)


Also, anybody know a good site or forum topic that has a good list of what I should and should not feed her.
I do have this list, although it's not complete. I doubt there's any list out there that is, since foods can vary all around the world.

http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...afe-fresh-foods-toxic-food-lists-sprouts.html


I found a complete list but theres every food under the sun on it and its hard to remember all that. i'm looking for more of the common foods that can and should not be fed as treats.
I look at it this way... it's better to feed a large variety of a small amount of foods than it is to feed a small variety of a large amount of food.

That is, you really don't want to feed them just kale, carrots and broccoli all the time. Although healthy, it's not a variety... if you can create a chop/mash recipe, which has at least 3-6 vegetables in it and maybe 1 to 2 fruits, that'd be great! Heck, you could even throw in *healthy* grains and legumes!

My birds are currently getting a mash that has a base of sprouted seeds with vegetables and some fruit thrown in. This is in addition to pellets. (my smaller birds actually eat more of it than my large conure does...) Here's one that I made earlier this year....



Sprouts (China Prairie)

Mash

Here are the ingredients that I had added to the sprouts.

• Pomegranate Seeds
• Blueberries
• Bell Pepper
  • Green
  • Red
  • Orange
• Butternut Squash
• Broccoli Florets
• Brussels Sprouts
• Spinach
• Mustard Greens
• Green Beans
• Arugula
• Kale

Oh and is there a limit of how much fresh veggies I should feed? I know I read somewhere that some veggies they should be limited on.
If you feed a large variety, then you don't necessarily need to limit any vegetables. It's when you feed a small variety that you want to limit.


Now, if you have a small flock or even just one bird, I realize that making a mash diet may not be practical (and I do freeze mine!). If you eat healthy, then it might not be so bad... just save a little food from what you already eat (which is fine to feed), and give some to your bird.

Alternatively, if you can find anyone in the area who provides chop/mash to their birds, you could always ask if they would sell you some for your own bird, or at least help you make it or figure out some way to split it.

conures are second only to lorikeets in terms of hyper.

You must not have met a caique!

 

[Mindy]

Nibbling on your hands - don't let her. Instead, *GIVE* her something to do. Teach her to play with toys, or train new behaviors.

If you are having difficulties with that, then try having her on a play stand and give her things to do on the stand, but keep her close to you. Ambient attention can be just as good as physical attention.



She doesn't have any guidance, and blowing in her face, punishing her, or anything to try to directly stop the behavior doesn't tell her what *TO DO*, only what *NOT* to do.


I realize that it's difficult to avoid all bites, but if you can work on learning to read her, redirect unwanted attention, and start a basis of communication, it will get better. This is where training comes into play.

Target training is a great first behavior to teach. In fact, I even recommend training it while she's in her cage and the door is shut! If need be, place a special dish in the cage for her rewards.

Start by figuring out what you want to use as a target. This could be a knitting needle, a chopstick, or an empty pen case. Then figure out what her favorite treats are and use these as her rewards.


If she looks at the target, reward, repeat. If she moves her head towards the target, reward, repeat. If she takes a step towards the target, reward, repeat. If she takes another step towards the target, reward, repeat. Etc. She does not need to physically touch the target to be target trained - we just want her to orientate her beak towards it.

Teach her to target all around the inside of her cage for rewards - without opening the door. Once she's good at that, then open the door and start target training through the cage door. Then around the outside of her cage. Then start working on target training away from the cage.

With target training, you can teach her to step up, turn around or even climb down your shoulder.

I'm in no way an expert but this is the method I've used to communicate how much of a beak is ok for me: I hand feed little treats, a piece of nut or seed. First I offer it between two fingers with it visible. Bird takes it without biting the fingers around it, 'niiiiccce biiiiiiird' If there is some beaking that doesn't hurt I don't say anything. If there is too much beaking say 'nooo' or make a sound of dislike (softly) and hold the treat firmly. If the beaking doesn't stop I retract the hand with the treat slowly. Wait a second and repeat. Once this is going well and I feel there is a good understanding I will make the treat more difficult to find over several sessions. My goal is to actually have her beak me gently and nudge around my fingers to find the treat. I repeat about a billion times to let her know beaking is ok as long as it doesn't hurt me. This won't work when she's super excited or already annoyed so I mostly work on it in the evening.

 

[LordTriggs]

You must not have met a caique!

I haven't though I would love to. They seem hilarious

 

[MonicaMc]

I'm in no way an expert but this is the method I've used to communicate how much of a beak is ok for me: I hand feed little treats, a piece of nut or seed. First I offer it between two fingers with it visible. Bird takes it without biting the fingers around it, 'niiiiccce biiiiiiird' If there is some beaking that doesn't hurt I don't say anything. If there is too much beaking say 'nooo' or make a sound of dislike (softly) and hold the treat firmly. If the beaking doesn't stop I retract the hand with the treat slowly. Wait a second and repeat. Once this is going well and I feel there is a good understanding I will make the treat more difficult to find over several sessions. My goal is to actually have her beak me gently and nudge around my fingers to find the treat. I repeat about a billion times to let her know beaking is ok as long as it doesn't hurt me. This won't work when she's super excited or already annoyed so I mostly work on it in the evening.

You definitely need to be careful here as you may be confusing her by allowing a behavior, then attempting to punish her for it.

I haven't though I would love to. They seem hilarious

Videos of lorikeets playing is very similar to caiques playing. I've been wanting to see a video of the two species together! (that is, as long as they don't attempt to kill each other!)