New conure!! Need some help!

[Jobiness]

So!
I’ve bought a green cheeked conure names Bobbie! He is one years old.

The problem is, when I bought him from from this family they said he loved everyone, woman and man... he is silly tame and that he only likes going on his back for their son. He doesn’t like hands either.

I’ve brought him home and from the minute he was home is happily sits on my hand, lays on his back and absolutely loves me. He will happily sit on my sisters when they come round too... then my dad came round and he just kept flying to him to bite him and attack my dad.
Then my partner came home, and Bobbie would literally fly on him to bite and attack. Which actually drew blood this time.

What’s going on?
I watched the young boy handle him and he loved him from this family but it just seems that his bonded with me alone?

Any tips?

 

[Flboy]

A GCC is a watchdog! He is protecting the flock, and will give up his life to do so! Discipline will only make this worse! For now, when they come into the house, room, make sure he is in his cage! Important—And they give him a treat! Try to avoid clipping him, if you can!
For some reason, he is associating these two folks with something distasteful, and he feels the need to lash out! Their job is to re-associate this relationship!
Ya, they are that smart!

 

[Ana_]

My GCC is very much as described by Flboy. The most effective Watchdog one can have. He goes with my husband and me equally but when it comes to others it appears random who he loves, tolerates or has to destroy.
One when he first joined our family my oldest son came to visit and was a bit to excited approaching me to hug/kiss me, pajarito went nuts. 7 years later he tolerates my son. Granted my son doesn't have the patience or desired to deal with him and as long s there's distance between them there's peace.
Patience is the key I think. My pajarito got used to the postman in a couple of months, it helped that our guy speaks softly n we always have a great ready for him to give it to pajarito.

Good luck.

 

[Flboy]

Wanted to add this,
http://www.parrotforums.com/training/57935-brainstorming-biting-parrots.html

A real great study!

 

[EllenD]

First of all, you've only had him a very short time, right? So everything is new, everyone is new, and it can take months and months for a new bird to settle-in and actually establish the dynamics within their Flock, which now consists of you and anyone else who lives in the home. So take a breath and do the things you need to do to make sure that he doesn't hurt anyone in the short-term.

You've learned a very good lesson while adopting him from his previous owners, and that's to NEVER trust everything you're told by the people trying to sell you a pet!!! They're going to paint you a wonderful picture of a loving, cuddly animal who loves everyone and who has no behavioral issues, simply because they want you to buy the bird. For all you know, there was a man or men in his prior home who abused him in some way, whether it be by constantly tormenting him or even by physically abusing him. So that could be the reason why he's immediately attacking all the men he sees. So you have to realize that whatever he's doing right now after just being re-homed, it's not his fault, there are good reasons for him acting this way, and you just need to give him time and have patience with him.

Don't be surprised if the people/person he immediately loved and was friendly with and allowed to handled him changes in the future, after he settles-in and learns this new "Flock Dynamic". He may never like any men again due to some past trauma, or he may realize that the men in this Flock are good people that he can trust, and then he might actually decide to choose one of them as "his person", or he may just stop biting them...You just don't know yet...

The other thing that may happen, and what was already mentioned above by the other members, is that he has chosen you as "his person", and as such he may feel like it's his job to protect you. This is extremely common with all parrots, especially ones who are very bonded to their person or people. The typical result of this is that whenever your significant other touches you, say gives you a hug or kisses you, he may automatically try to attack him, because he's trying to protect you. And he may do this when ANYONE touches you if you are chosen as "his person". My own Green Cheek, Bowie, is unfortunately like this to any man or women that tries to touch me in any way at all, and he has lived his entire life alone with only me, a woman. So he has no reason to fear or be angry with men, nor does he have any reason to dislike other women...HOWEVER, Bowie only attacks other people who touch me when we are all in my house. When I take Bowie out and about on his harness, he doesn't attack anyone at all, and he will actually step-up for total strangers and has allowed all strangers to touch/pet him and has never even made a peep about it (against my wishes of course, when you're out in public, some people have no idea about birds and they just walk up and start touching him when he's on my shoulder, just like they'll stupidly just walk up and start petting someone's dog that they don't know)...So with Bowie, it's like he feels a need to protect me when anyone else is in OUR TERRITORY, but when we're not in our territory he's fine with people touching me. So it just comes down to the individual bird, as well as how they adapt to their new environment and Flock as more and more time goes on.

****As already mentioned, you NEVER want to ever punish or try to correct your bird with any Negative-Reinforcement, not for anything they do that you don't want them to do, because not only will they not ever respond to punishment/negative-reinforcement, but it will usually just make the behavior worse. Parrots have the intelligence of a 3 year-old human child, so they actually use logic and reasoning skills. So if you "spank" a bird, or you "flick" them or tap them on their beak (as a lot of people mistakenly do when they bite), or you yell at them or scold them, they'll often just bite you again on the spot. And you will also lose any of their trust that you've earned (which is probably what happened with the man or men in his prior household). So you never, ever want to yell or scold your bird, and you certainly never want to hit or spank your bird, or flick/tap/hit them on their beak when they bite or do anything else. No punishment in-general at all...

***Instead, whenever your bird is displaying a behavior that you don't want them to do and that you want to change, you need to use "Positive-Reinforcement", which basically means that instead of punishing him when he does a behavior that you don't want him to do, you instead need to show him that this behavior is not going to be tolerated at all by taking away something that is dear to him, and then you're going to reward him both with a special "Training-Treat" and lots of verbal praise whenever he displays the behavior that you want him to do.

I'll post below about the absolute best way to stop a Green Cheek Conure from biting at all. If you actually stick to the plan that I type up below and everyone in your household does it every single time he bites anyone, you can actually stop his biting completely within a very short period of time.

 

[EllenD]

So first of all, you need to figure out what your bird's very special "Training Treat" is going to be. This is going to be a food/treat that he loves more than any other treat, and most-importantly is that it's a treat that he ONLY GETS WHEN BEING REWARDED FOR GOOD BEHAVIOR AND THAT'S IT!!! This is extremely important if you want him to actually want to display good behaviors that you want him to do, because he's going to be "working" for that special Training-Treat. That's how smart they are, he will quickly realize that he'll get one of these treats if he does what you want him to do, and that's exactly why Positive-Reinforcement works so well with parrots, because of their high level of intelligence. It's like rewarding a human kid, or even a human adult, by giving them something when they bring home a good report card, such as a toy or video game they've been wanting. That's the best way to get your child to study and do their homework, tell them that if their report card is all A's, then the day they bring it home you'll take them out and buy them the new video game they wanted. And if they can get all A's or an overall GPA over 3.5 or something similar for the entire school year, the day they come home with their last report card for the year you'll take them and buy them something huge that they've been wanting forever, like the puppy they've been wanting for years and years, or the new mountain bike or playstation 4, etc. It's no different for parrots displaying the behaviors that you want them to display, or stop doing the behaviors that you don't want them to display. The only difference between humans and birds is that birds think that the best thing in the world is food, that's what motivates them...And they are a lot cheaper, lol...

So if you already know what his favorite treat in the world is, then that's what you need to make his Training-Treat, and he can no longer get that specific treat at any other time other than when he's being rewarded for behaving well. For example, if your significant other gives you a hug when he's on your shoulder, and he doesn't react at all to him and doesn't bite him or be aggressive with him in any other way, then you give him a Training-Treat. Very important is that whatever you choose as his Training-Treat is small and something that he can eat pretty quickly. You don't want to choose something that he has to hold in his foot and sit and work at eating over the span of minutes, because this is the same treat that you're going to use to work with him on stepping-up with your significant other, and any other things you want to train him to do, like "Recall-Training", which means training him to come to you whenever you call for him. So whatever the Training-Treat is needs to be something you can give him and have him eat quickly so he can move on to the next thing. Good Training-Treats for Green Cheek Conures include Sunflower Seeds that are already unshelled (or Sunflower Kernels), which you can buy at any grocery store or Walmart in bags, because you don't want him to have to sit and take the shell off, you just want him to eat it and move on. I used Sunflower Seed Kernels when I trained my Green Cheek, and they worked great...However, if your bird already eats a seed-mix as his regular diet that contains Sunflower Seeds in it, then you can't choose them to be his Training-Treat (he absolutely shouldn't be eating a seed-mix that contains any Sunflower Seeds, any Nuts (especially Peanuts), or any Dried Corn Kernels or Dried Cracked Corn, as they are absolutely loaded with fat and the #1 reason that they develop Fatty-Liver Disease and die young; there are plenty of high-quality, healthy, low-fat seed-mixes that don't contain any of these things and that are actually high in Protein, Vitamins, Minerals, Amino Acids, etc., and varied so that they don't get bored with their food, such as Tropimix, Higgins California Blend, Zupreem Smart Selects, etc.)...Other great Training-Treats are little pieces/slivers of healthier Nuts that he likes (NO PEANUTS EVER), such as little bits of UNSALTED Almonds, Filberts, Brazil Nuts, Walnuts, etc. Little bits of unsalted Almonds work great. Or, if he really likes a particular fruit, then the dried version of that fruit cut into tiny little bits work well, such as little bits of Banana Chips, Dried Mango, Dried Pineapple, Dried Papaya, Dried Coconut, or any of the fruit "chips", like little bits of Apple Chips/Crisps, as long as they don't have any added sugar or salt on them...

The other really healthy treat for your bird are the cans of "puffs" that are made for human infants/toddlers as snacks. They are all whole-wheat/whole-grain, and none of them contain any added sugar or salt at all, they are simply whole-wheat flour and fresh fruit/water. That's it. I buy multiple cans of these and all of my birds just love them. I buy the Walmart generic brand, and a can of them only costs like $1.50, and they have multiple flavors for you to try to see what he likes best, such as Apple, Apple-Strawberry, Blueberry, Strawberry Banana, Banana, Sweet Potato, etc. My guys love them all. If you were to use one of these as your bird's Training-Treat, you'd need to cut one puff into little bits that he can eat quickly. I'd check them out anyway because they really are a very healthy snack that they love, and what I do is give them one or two of these to munch on whenever I'm eating a snack that I don't want them to have, or that they really shouldn't have, like chips, cookies, etc.

Whatever you choose as his Training-Treat needs to be always ready to give him, so if it's something like unsalted, raw Almonds or anything else that need to be cut-up into little bits, make sure you have plenty of them already cut-up and ready to go...And it's best that you have some in your pocket whenever you're at home, so you're prepared to reward his good behaviors and reinforce them so that he keeps doing them...

*****Now, onto biting....The absolute best way to stop your bird from biting anyone at all is by using something called "The Shunning Method"...There are many, many posts on this forum that explain The Shunning Method in-detail, but I'll go over it briefly here...

The Shunning Method works so well to stop parrots from biting because it immediately takes away what most tame, bonded parrots love most, and that's your attention and acknowledgement. I've seen this method stop a Green Cheek from biting completely within 2 days of using it...However, the key to The Shunning Method working is that every single person who lives in your house must do it and participate in it every single time the bird bites anyone if they are present in the room when he does it. Now I'll be honest with you, the first day of using The Shunning Method is going to be a long day, because you have to do it every single time he bites anyone, and it usually takes them between 5-10 times of doing it for them to realize "Oh, so when I bite anyone this is going to happen to me"...So that means that typically you end-up doing it 5-10 times right in a row, once right after the other after the next, until it clicks. For this reason it's best to start using The Shunning Method on a day where everyone who lives in your house is at home, like a Saturday, and then continue using it on Sunday and from then on...Usually after the first day people find the biting has subsided by about 50%, and as long as you keep doing it every single time he bites anyone from that point forward, it won't be very long at all that the bites stop. You will occasionally have to remind him, but typically what happens is that once the bird stops being aggressive towards certain people, they actually will start opening-up and accepting the person as a Flock-mate. They may never give their complete trust to those people like he will with you or 'his person", but usually will ultimately accept them as a fellow Flock-mate...

I'll write-up a short description of how to use The Shunning Method below, and you can choose to try it or not, but at least you'll have it in your arsenal as something to try if his biting of people in your house continues or gets worse. It's not unusual for parrots to cause stress in people's relationships with their significant other or their spouse, either because the parrot is aggressive with and constantly biting one of them and trying to protect the other who is their person, or even worse is when someone brings home a parrot because they want a bird that they can bond very closely with and have be their best friend who they will care for solely on their own, while the other spouse wants nothing at all to do with the bird, and once the bird is home it ends-up choosing the spouse that wants nothing at all to do with them as "their person", while the spouse who wanted the bird in the first place and who does everything for the bird like feeding them, cleaning their cages, giving them treats, etc.is the spouse who the bird wants nothing at all to do with and may even become aggressive with...This situation has actually broken-up marriages, as they are like human children, especially if we're talking about one of the large Cockatoos, Macaws, African Greys, etc. So hopefully using The Shunning Method will help you significant other to at the very least be able to be with you when the bird is out of their cage without the bird attacking him or being aggressive with him...And maybe he may even start to accept him as a Flock-mate in the future...

 

[noodles123]

This is going to sound dramatic, but stick with me. You are dealing with an animal with the intelligence of a 3 year-old (roughly). Imagine if a 3-year-old human was taken away from the only home it had ever known. No one would expect that child to treat ever woman as though she were his/her mother and no one would expect him/her to treat every man as though he was his/her father...In fact, most people would expect that child to be upset and scared and distant for many months.

I have no doubt that this is a sweet bird, but birds are very very emotional and they take a long time to build trust. A bird that is nice to all people usually is anchored/grounded by someone nearby who they love/trust (but not overly bonded---that is important too). My cockatoo is great with others as long as I am around (because she trusts me). The issue is, that person that your bird trusted is now gone.

I know your bird isn't a human, but adult birds move in SLLLLLOOOOOOOWWWW motion. So whatever adjustment period you have in your head, multiply it by at least 5 (often more like 10) and you will have a closer understanding of the time it takes for some birds to process changes (including a new flock). There is usually a period of apprehension, followed by a honey-moon, followed by some limit-testing... Get good at reading your bird's cues so that you can anticipate behavior and prevent bites etc. I didn't catch your bird's age, but that will also make a huge difference. Babies tend to be nice and then around puberty, they undergo a personality change (just like human teens).

It sounds like your bird really does like you, but you need to slow way down and get back to basics. For now, your family and your dad should stick with doing quiet things near the cage, interacting passively, talking near the bird, and, if all appears to be going well, feeding it (handing food to it--especially your dad). If it won't take food from his hand, let it see him place the treat in its dish and move on. Allow the bird to step up if you are willing and it shows interest etc, but if stepping up means attacking your dad, plan ahead and do not allow that to happen.
***Important-- birds mate for life and if your bird likes you too much, you could be sexually stimulating it----make sure that you are only petting it on its head and that your aren't allowing it in your shirt, under furniture etc etc*** If a bird picks a mate, they will defend that person and sometimes even turn on that person if their sexual advances are not reciprocated.
Please note: any sort of cuddle huts/boxes/tents/blankets etc can increase hormonal aggression, so I would strongly advise removing any shadowy places and/or nesting materials (such as shredded paper, fabrics, bedding) from the cage ASAP.

If you can do so safely, consider opening the cage and allowing your bird to sit on top and enter/exit of his own accord....(preferably while your dad isn't in the room---you aren't really at the point where you can intervene appropriately if the bird flies at him), then that will be a good start to getting him comfortable with the inside and outside of the cage.

I agree with everything Ellen said above, and I haven't read the rest of the replied you have gotten, but I am sure they are full of solid information.

 

[EllenD]

The Shunning Method

The key to using The Shunning Method to stop a parrot from biting people is having everyone who lives in the household totally on-board with the plan, and also totally willing to participate in using The Shunning Method every single time the bird bites ANYONE, and this includes visitors to your home that are strangers too; the ultimate goal of The Shunning Method is to stop the bird from biting as a defense mechanism, a protective mechanism, an outward display of jealousy, etc. So it's not meant to simply stop the bird from biting only your spouse, though that is what is most-important since he does live in the household. So we want your bird to not only stop biting him, but to also eventually accept him as a Flock-Mate.

The first step of using The Shunning Method is the bird biting someone. So the very first day that you choose to implement The Shunning Method you need to all be ready to start using it first thing in the morning. So let's say that your bird bites your significant other first thing in the morning. Regardless of where you are in the house, you are going to use The Shunning Method right then and there where the bird bit him. So the first thing that you want to do is say whatever "Verbal Directive" you're going to use immediately after every time he bites anyone. It needs to be short and to the point, and you need to say it immediately after he bites anyone. Usually the Verbal-Directive for correcting biting is "No Bites!", or something similar. It's extremely important that you never yell or scream the Verbal-Directive at your bird, because once again, punishment/negative-reinforcement does not work with birds, and you'll only end-up scaring him or making him even more aggressive. So when you say the Verbal-Directive to him, you just want to say it firmly in a way that he'll know you're not praising him or talking to him in a soft or gentle way.

So your bird bites someone, and everyone in the room needs to stop whatever it is that they're doing and participate in The Shunning Method. Since you are the one who the bird has chosen as "his person" and you're able to handle him, and because you're the one that he wants to be with and wants to stay bonded with, you should be the one to say the Verbal-Directive to him and be the one who executes The Shunning Method, if you are present in the room when it happens. If you're not present when it happens, then the person who he bites should do it. So he bites someone, you immediately say "No Bites!" to him in a firm tone of voice (but not scolding or yelling at him), and then you immediately need to pick him up or have him step-up on your finger, and you immediately need to put him right down on the floor where all of you in the room are standing. Birds absolutely HATE to be on the floor/ground, because they are suddenly the lowest thing in the room, it removes any sense of dominance and/or confidence that he has in that moment where he's biting someone, and it makes them feel very vulnerable. If your bird's wings are clipped then this part of The Shunning Method goes a lot more easily, though even if your bird is flighted you'll usually find that they don't just immediately fly from the floor, because once again, it makes them feel very vulnerable and submissive.

The nest step is after you say "No Bites!" firmly to him and you put him right down on the floor, then everyone who is in the room needs to LITERALLY turn their backs to the bird right where they're standing. By turning your backs to the bird, it's a visual "shunning" of him, and that's exactly how they understand it, that you are all "shunning" him. What's very important, probably the most important step to the Shunning Method, is that after you all literally turn your backs to the bird, that you all also totally ignore him and keep your backs turned to him for a full 5 minutes. This means no talking to him, no looking at him or making eye-contact with him, totally ignoring any and all sounds he might make, and essentially pretending that he no longer exists for a full 5 minutes. Any shorter than 5 minutes and the "shunning" won't make an impact on him, and any longer than 5 minutes and he'll lose interest and pretty-much forget the reason why you're "shunning" him to begin with. So the gist of The Shunning Method as a whole is that everyone in the room when the bite occurs immediately turns their backs to the bird after he is put on the floor and is the lowest thing in the room, and they all totally ignore his existence for a full 5 minutes.

Now, he's not going to just stand there on the floor like a statue, he's going to walk around, he's going to do things like fly up to your shoulder or climb-up your leg, he's going to fly up onto furniture or his cage, etc. So for everyone else in the room besides you, because you're the one who can currently handle him, they are going to continue to completely ignore his existence, and they are also going to have to keep turning their backs to him if he happens to get in front of them. So for everyone else (and you) in the room, they basically just need to make sure that their backs are always to the bird, and that they are completely silent and totally ignoring anything and everything that the bird does. What you need to do in addition to also keeping your back turned to him no matter where he goes in the room, is to also try your best to keep putting him back on the floor if and when he leaves it. You don't want to ever say anything to him when he leaves the floor, you want to remain completely silent and just go and get him if and when he leaves the floor, pick him up/stick your finger out for him to step-up, put him right back down on the floor wherever you're standing when you pick him up or have him step-up, and then immediately turn your back to him again. So for example, if he starts climbing up your leg or he flies to your shoulder, you're going to silently just put him right back down on the floor and then turn your back to him again, with everyone else in the room also keeping their backs always turned to him, and then continue to "shun" him for the rest of the 5 minutes. If he flies up onto a piece of furniture or his cage, you are going to silently walk over to him, pick him up or have him step-up, put him right back down on the floor, and then everyone makes sure their backs are to him, and continue for the rest of the 5 minutes. That's basically it, that's The Shunning Method.

***Something that is very important is how you handle it when the 5 minutes is up. What you don't want to do is immediately go and pick him up or give him attention right after the 5 minutes is up, as that will undo what you just did. The best thing you all can do when the 5 minutes is up is to NOT ACKNOWLEDGE HIM AT ALL, but rather just all sit back down, walk away, just continuing whatever it was that you were doing when the bite first occurred. Because you are probably the person he is going to go to immediately, the best thing you or whomever he does go to is to ALLOW HIM TO COME TO YOU, AND DON'T SAY ANYTHING TO HIM UNTIL HE DOES COME TO YOU. So if the 5 minutes is over and everyone just goes back to doing what they were doing and no one says anything to him, and you go and sit down in the same room and he flies or walks over to you, let him come to you, let him fly to your shoulder or walk up onto you, and then just pretend like nothing every really happened, but don't "coddle" him at all right after, meaning don't start "baby-talking" to him or anything. Just let him come to you and continue watching TV or whatever you were doing without really saying much to him right away. He may not go to anyone right after, he may fly to his cage or play-stand, and that's fine too, just let him.

***Frequently the bird will bite the person again right away after you first use The Shunning Method. That's what I meant by "the first day is going to be a long day", because you're going to have to do The Shunning Method exactly the same way every single time he bites. So that means if you do The Shunning Method, the 5 minutes is over, and right away he flies to your significant other and bites him again, that means that you all have to do exactly the same thing over again right away...So again you say "No Bites!", you put him right down on the floor, you all turn your backs to him for a full 5 minutes, and you continue to keep putting him back down on the floor if he leaves it.

I went through this with a friend's Green Cheek, who he adopted from the bird's first owners from a Craiglist ad that he found. The bird was almost 5 years-old at the time, and he absolutely HATED my friend's wife, and every time she even came anywhere near my friend the bird would literally dive-bomb her and go for her eyes. So I came over on a Sunday morning and we let him out of his cage, and I had my friend pick him up while the 3 of us were in their living room, and I then had his wife come over and wrap her arms around him, and sure enough the bird went right for her face...So we started using The Shunning Method right away, and I think we did it at least 10 times, somewhere in that area that day, most of them all in a row. And after the 10 or so times of doing The Shunning Method, I swear to you that his wife could not only touch my friend without the bird biting or attacking her, but he actually ended-up spending that evening sitting on my friend's shoulder while we all were watching a movie, and my friend had the bird on one shoulder and his opposite are around his wife, and the bird was fine and never once even squawked at his wife. It really does work if you're willing to stick to it and get through the first day or two of using it...

 

[clark_conure]

I was going to read this thread but G** D***. I glanced over it and yeah everyone hit anything I would say anyways....yeah shunning method or time out method.....

My word......some of you need to leave some paragraphs for the rest of us....(EllenD) & (noodles123).

(you know I love you both)

 

[Jobiness]

Okay, thankyou everyone for the comments and the things I need to do.
Would it still work though if Bobbie likes the floor? As he will happily run and play on the floor most of the time, he will happily follow me too.
I’ve had a few little nibbles today but I think that’s due to him not getting my full attention as I was reading these comments and he decided to bite me due to being on my phone ��

My partner tried last night with him, giving him treats whilst I was out the room and he seemed a little more settled with him but still bit him but no where near as bad as he was when I was in the room!

To comments above, I watched the young boy and man handle him and he was absolutely fine with them so it’s a little mystery. But like again it’s early days and he could just still be nervous in my home (it’s just me and my partner here... we have 2 cats and 2 dogs but they aren’t allowed in the frontroom with Bobbie as I don’t want them scaring him)
So when I go out aswell I put the radio on for him so he can listen to something, plus plenty of toys.

I’m going to start trying thing method tomorrow with him. So hopefully he starts getting the idea of no biting.

Thanks again!

 

[Laurasea]

Bobbie was great with his last flock because he knew them. It's early days for you guys. Plus Birds aren't dogs, or like other pets. They pick and make their own friendships based on their unique likes and dislikes and personality of people involved. They are masters of reading body language and anyone nervous or unsure makes them nervous too. They especially dislikes if you put your hand out then draw it back because you think you will be bit, this actually bmakes them bite..

 

[noodles123]

Be patient:
"I have no doubt that this is a sweet bird, but birds are very very emotional and they take a long time to build trust. A bird that is nice to all people usually is anchored/grounded by someone nearby who they love/trust (but not overly bonded---that is important too). My cockatoo is great with others as long as I am around (because she trusts me). The issue is, that person that your bird trusted is now gone. "

 

[Jobiness]

I recently posted on here last week about Bobbie.

Everything was great and I was doing the training of ignoring him when he bit... well suddenly now he is aggressively biting all the time.
He was perfect with me but now...
If I go to get him out the cage, he bites me.
I go to pick him up, he bites me.
Even trying to get him to step on my other arm... he bites me and it isn’t a small bite either now. He is drawing blood every time and even when he gets a grip of my skin he is pulling it back and forth so it hurts more.

Now, I’ve been doing the training... ignoring him on the floor, even when he bites me I don’t let him see that it’s actually hurting me as apparently they can get the attention they want from that. I’ve tried treats...
When he bites now, I’ve started putting him back in his cage for 5 mins, then going back to see if his calmed down. (Which sometimes he won’t bite, but sometimes he will)

I used to be able to stroke him, well now it’s like he will charge at me instead if I even try too.
His still the same way towards my partner, so his stopped trying now as he is getting attacked every time and his tried his best.
For me, I’ve still put my all into this... everyday training with the no biting, still getting him out and still I get bit
I literally have bite marks all over my hand, my arm and my neck from him.

Any advice... I don’t want to get rid of him but I’m feeling like maybe he actually doesn’t like me anymore?
Or would you say it’s suited for him to go to a better home?
I don’t want it where I can’t get him out anymore because all he does is bite and attack.. he was so loving when I first got him.

 

[noodles123]

You haven't had your bird long enough to make any judgements. You are really moving too fast. Getting a bird is like marrying a stranger and it is going to take more than a few weeks for that bird to trust you. I know he seemed sweet early on, but birds often have a weird sort of honeymoon period with new people (plus, he was younger then, and babies are always sweeter). New birds will also sometimes initially cling to someone in a new place because everything else is super scary....

Expecting to be able to interact with your bird without road-bumps so early is like going on a first-date and asking them where they want to have their honeymoon and why they hadn't gotten you a ring LOL. It is going to backfire, but there is hope for you and your bird...I didn't pick my bird up for 3 whole months (and it was frustrating, but worth it)... Not because I couldn't have forced it, but because I wanted her to want to be picked up...I tried to keep interaction positive and trust-building without pushing her comfort zone too far, and this honestly the best way to go early on.

You need to go back to building trust...This is so much more complicated than just inflicting your will on a creature the way we would with a dog. If I were you, I would stop trying to train so hard so early. You need to read his body language because the more he bites, the more comfortable he gets with biting (and you don't want that). Don't put him in situations where he will bite you, but if he does, make sure that your reactions don't encourage further biting...Avoid the biting situations as well as you can by reading signals, but if you find yourself in a biting situation, be able to determine what the bird was trying to get out of the bite and make sure you don't give it to him.

Note: You should know that birds will often hold grudges or get moody for longer spans..as in months when hormonal etc. You can't doubt your relationship over stuff like this, but I know it is hard. Again, right now, you need to build a relationship before fretting about it, and even then you will have off weeks. They don't last forever.

The shunning only works when the behavior is attention seeking and the bird knows/trusts you enough to desire that contact. If you don't have a solid enough foundation of a relationship, then, while your bird may prefer you to other people, putting him down isn't going to help because ultimately, he still probably prefers not to be touched by you or anyone in your home (which is TOTALLY normal this early on)...especially if he can fly and especially if you only take him out of his cage when he steps up etc...He may not like the floor, but if he REALLY doesn't want to be touched, then the floor might be his preference when compared to human contact or being shut in his cage. If he can fly, then he doesn't even have to stay there, plus, he gets out of the contact he was likely avoiding, while remaining out and about to do as he pleases.
Also--- it doesn't sound like you are going away...he seems to want to be near you, so you could try leaving the room in the future instead (but not yet).

If you are holding your bird and it bites, so you put it down on the ground, and over time, the biting increases, then you need to stop falling into this pattern. It may know that, while it wants to be near you and out of its cage, it doesn't want to be touched. If it bites and you put it down, it is possible that that is exactly what the bird wants--once the bird is down, it can do what it wants (assuming it just wants to be out of the cage and away from physical contact).

Most behaviors fall into 4 categories 1. escape, 2. attention (eye contact, proximity, reactions of any kind, any sound), 3. tangibles, 4. sensory/automatic (things like eating when hungry, scratching when itchy etc)

Figure out the reason for the biting (attention, sensory, escape, tangibles) by looking at what happens immediately after the bite. Chart it (look up ABC charting on Google---it is a component of applied behavior analysis). You want to make sure that after a bite, you are not gratifying/giving into the function. You also want to know your bird well enough ahead of time that you can avoid putting yourself in situations that will hurt trust and lead to biting practice.

If behavior increases measurably over a period of time (not just like a day or 2, but over a week+), then you are reinforcing it somehow. Somehow, his biting is being reinforced.

Here are some scenarios. The reason listed for biting is the behaviors function, and whatever you do, you want to make sure that when he bites, you do not gratify that function. SEE BELOW (note- the scenarios below illustrate common reactions that people have which reinforce or meet the function/purpose a bird has for biting. These reactions (below) will reinforce the biting and cause it to increase. Anytime a reaction matches the function of a behavior, that behavior will increase over time:

EXP: You try to take your bird out and your bird bites you, so you put the bird back on the cage or remove your hand. Bird starts doing this more and more = biting to escape (from the situation) or out of fear...AKA doesn't want to hang out right now.

EXP: Bird bites and you make a sound (any sound) and then flail a bit =biting for attention/ your reaction (remember, it doesn't matter whether you think that attention is good (praise, petting) or bad (yelling, scolding, jerking, eye-contact, calling others to help)...it is all attention to the bird...

EXP: Bird bites you and you can't get it off your shoulder so you lure it down with a treat= seeking a tangible item (the food).

EXP: You are talking to someone other than the bird. Bird bites you and you stop talking to that person and look at the bird=biting for attention.

EXP: You try to put your bird back in the cage and it bites so it takes you longer to get it in the cage or you give up for a bit = biting for escape/avoidance of the cage.

EXP: The bird bites your dad so you run over and take the bird off of him= biting for attention (from you --because you run over, but also from him, if it enjoys the reaction/chaos).

EXP: You go to remove something from the cage and the bird bites you so you remove your hand and avoid that part of the cage...You notice that the bird only bites around that item (when you approach it) then that is territorial behavior that is closest to seeking to keep a tangible item.



I have a strong feeling that much of this current biting behavior is rooted in escape/fear (not that your bird hates you, it just hasn't been long enough!) Shunning will likely work in the future, but you can't shun someone who wants to be left alone.

Then there are layers of other behaviors that can relate to hormones etc. Again, never cuddle your bird or allow it in dark places. Don't let it in your shirt or in blankets/boxes. Pet on the head and neck only.

Never stroke a bird...
birds can easily think of you as a mate and since you can't have sex with your bird, he is going to get hormonal and aggressive if he feels led-on or jealous. Stroking a bird (outside of pets on the head and neck only) is like making out for a bird....They can't control the way their hormones react to that kind of contact. I can't remember your bird's age, but even if he isn't sexually mature yet, hormones are likely kicking in a bit..

 

[LordTriggs]

Jbiness, here is a two word piece of advice that will help you out.

Slow down!

The best thing I've ever been taught with birds is to never view them as aggressive as it's just not what they're like. There's a reason to biting, be it fear, frustration, upset, defense, rivalry, possessiveness, attention seeking, poor training, unawareness. I think here it's simply that this guy is scared. Imagine how he feels for a moment, he's been taken from his family by someone who his DNA is screaming at him to be afraid of and suddenly he's being poked prodded and carried around the joint. Kind of scary if you think about it. I know I'd probably bite in that situation.

Dial things right back, go to getting him comfortable with you being around the cage, with taking treats through the bars, comfortable with your hand in the cage and taking treats. Move at his pace which is going to be slow, glacial even. Allow him to come to you. He's got a good 30 years in him so a couple days or even weeks in the cage with you getting used to each other isn't going to kill him, and if he does come out use a perch from in the cage to move him around so he's more familiar with the perch

 

[T00tsyd]

Poor little chap and poor you. Start again and don't have expectations. It will take all your patience. Training for the moment can be left out just let him get used to everyone and see that he's loved. Soft talking, food by hand if he will. Keep routines the same and even wear the same colours. When Syd came here I suddenly realised that he panicked if I wore a different colour.

Syd will bite me if he's frightened, if he thinks I should be frightened or if he thinks I am misbehaving. I still love him and have learned how to behave around him.

 

[T00tsyd]

I have just thought - Syd was a nightmare at 1+ I was tearing my hair out. He had been with me then about 8 months and I thought we were doing really well. Now that he's just 2 he is different again and very affectionate when he wants to be, but still the Boss!

 

[Jobiness]

I have just thought - Syd was a nightmare at 1+ I was tearing my hair out. He had been with me then about 8 months and I thought we were doing really well. Now that he's just 2 he is different again and very affectionate when he wants to be, but still the Boss!

So do you think it’s because his one?
Like he really wants to be stroked by my slippers or my leg (when I’m sitting on the floor)
I’m just thinking maybe it could be hormones?

Today, I did what most of you suggested. I left the cage door open, I ended up fiddling about inside the cage (which he doesn’t care about - it’s just if my hand goes towards him I get a sharp bite if I’m wanting him to step up.)
So I left him to it, whilst sorting a few toys out etc in the cage and then left the door open, he cane out on his own accord... he actually got his wooden bead that he threw out onto the floor so he could play and ended up playing on the floor for about 30 mins With his bead, he even let me roll it a few times for him.

I completely left him to it, so he came to me when he wanted... (which was then he wanting to rub his back on my legs - I attempted slowly to stroke his head but he went to go for me. So I left him again. When I went to leave the room he flew onto my shoulder as he didn’t want me to leave then I managed to get him in his cage that way.

He was handreared aswell, so that’s why I was thinking maybe I’m doing something wrong?


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[noodles123]

He was hand-reared, but he doesn't know you and he is growing up. Would you expect a teen to act like a 1-year-old forever?

Let him do his thing (within reason) and stop trying to touch him all of the time (sounds like things were going well with the bead thing, but if you couldn't touch him the first time, you didn't need to try again that 2nd time...) Bond with your bird by following his lead and showing him you mean no harm. You keep going for physical contact and that is not what you need to be doing right now. Get your bird comfortable with you before moving in like that....

Honestly, I know you WANT your bird to let you touch him. No amount of wanting is going to change the fact that you need to respect the boundaries that your bird has set. Those boundaries will change as he gets to know you over a period of weeks and months.

Hormones could definitely be part of it, but you need to go back to square one and build trust.

How old is he again?

When you say your bird was trying to "rub his back on your legs", what do you mean? When you say back, do you mean the underside of his tail? If so, that is VERY sexual and he cannot be allowed to do that. If he does, redirect him in some way....or walk away. If he is rubbing any part of himself on you (other than his head), I would be very cautious because you do not want to be petting him if he is trying to mate with you...Then you are just going to make him more hormonal and he will get mad when he feels like you have lead him on...If you have been leading him on by mistake, and he sees you as his mate (or wants to mate with you) that could also explain why he is biting your partner and now you. Pet him on his head and neck only and do not allow him to behave sexually towards you. Also, remove all access to shadowy places like boxes, tents, paper piles, blankets etc. No stroking, no cuddles....You may need to work on reestablishing the nature of your relationship...

Another thing-- if you try to pet him and he rears his head etc, try not to let him jerk your arm back. You want to get so good at reading his cues that you don't have to wait for him to show obvious aggression in order to know that now is not a good time to pet him. You shouldn't pet him when he doesn't want to be petted, but you also don't want to show him that he can make you jumpy/nervous... YES---BACK OFF if you see those signals, but calmly/slowly. It would be best if he didn't know that you were obviously backing down because of his behavior...Does that make sense...Don't react to it in a way that makes him think you are easily intimidated, but do respect his boundaries.

Finally-- he absolutely should not be on your neck and shoulders because he hasn't earned this. If he cannot be trusted to follow directions and stay safe, it is not a wise choice to allow him up there. This has nothing to do with dominance and everything to do with safety and your ability to control/react to the situation. You shouldn't be allowing him near your face etc until he proves that he can handle it safely.

 

[Jobiness]

He was hand-reared, but he doesn't know you and he is growing up. Would you expect a teen to act like a 1-year-old forever?

Let him do his thing (within reason) and stop trying to touch him all of the time (sounds like things were going well with the bead thing, but if you couldn't touch him the first time, you didn't need to try again that 2nd time...) Bond with your bird by following his lead and showing him you mean no harm. You keep going for physical contact and that is not what you need to be doing right now. Get your bird comfortable with you before moving in like that....

Honestly, I know you WANT your bird to let you touch him. No amount of wanting is going to change the fact that you need to respect the boundaries that your bird has set. Those boundaries will change as he gets to know you over a period of weeks and months.

Hormones could definitely be part of it, but you need to go back to square one and build trust. Building trust does not involve attempting to force your bird to do things. It is all about reading cues and associating yourself with things your bird trusts and enjoys.

When you say your bird was trying to "rub his back on your legs", what do you mean? When you say back, do you mean the underside of his tail? If so, that is VERY sexual and he cannot be allowed to do that. If he does, redirect him in some way....or walk away. If he is rubbing any part of himself on you (other than his head), I would be very cautious because you do not want to be petting him if he is trying to mate with you...Then you are just going to make him more hormonal and he will get mad when he feels like you have lead him on...

Another thing-- if you try to pet him and he rears his head etc, try not to let him jerk your arm back. You want to get so good at reading his cues that you don't have to wait for him to show obvious aggression in order to know that now is not a good time to pet him. You shouldn't pet him when he doesn't want to be petted, but you also don't want to show him that he can make you jumpy/nervous... YES---BACK OFF if you see those signals, but calmly/slowly. It would be best if he didn't know that you were obviously backing down because of his behavior...Does that make sense...Don't react to it in a way that makes him think you are easily intimidated, but do respect his boundaries.

Ah right okay, I get what you mean.

That’s what I did this morning, I didn’t touch him in the cage I let him come out on his own accord, I was just fiddling inside the cage so he knew I was busy doing something else if thag makes sense.
It was only when he was on the floor that he went to bite me.

He would rub all his side on me, or if my foot is a little off the floor he will go under my foot to rub the back of his wings on me. Same with my leg. So I try to move away for instance this morning I got his bead and rolled it again and he went off to grab it.

Okay, will do. I’ve learnt when his going to bite as he puffs all his chest out and his head goes really outstretched. I’ll just keep my hands away from him now.


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