Newly Adopted Green Cheek, Bongo

[Squeeing_Onion]

Heya!

I'll start things off with some cute photos of the two birds that have blessed my life:

"Chicken" - Estimated 17-18 years old when he passed on August 21st, 2018. I adopted him late August of 2015. He blessed my life in so many ways, and will always be dearly loved and missed.

"Bongo" - Adopted on October 8th, 2018

Fair warning: Try as I might, I just can't seem to pare down a forum post to be B R I E F. I highlighted the important questions I have in bold, everything else is mostly just excited parront chatter!

New the forums here, and new to owning a Green Cheek Conure!
Previously I cared for my late Sun Conure, Chicken - after his ear-splitting screeEEEES, I have to fight very hard not to laugh at Bongo's little squeaks. Her loudest call reminds me of a rubber chicken's squeak.

A bit of info on Bongo:

• Adopted on Oct. 8th from a family who cared for her a lot, but a member of the household was very uncomfortable around birds, and so they rehomed her to me.
• 4 years old, and I have her breeder's certificate and original bill of sale as proof to back that up. Very strange for me, as my first parrot was a rescue bird from a shelter, and we only had the word of the previous owner to judge his age by!
• Fully flighted and as far as I know has never experienced her wings being clipped. She's not the most skilled of flyers yet, but she is very capable.
• Was fed on an all-seed diet and only occasionally (to my understanding) was offered fruit, and very rarely vegetables.
• Is entirely addicted to sunflower seeds.
• Her beak is very flaky, I suspect from poor nutrition or a dry household
• Is so far proving to be very friendly and curious!
• As I was expecting for such a young bird, she's very flighty when introduced to NEW and SCARY things.

A disclaimer: Yes, I have done months and months of research on parrots, particularly on species-specific information for the ones I was interested in adopting, and the ones I ended up adopting. While adopting my first bird Chicken was technically an impulse-buy as far as making the final decision went (a long story I'll save for later!) it was backed by lots of research prior. And I am still researching! Always, always more to learn.

Avian knowledge is still growing and new discoveries are being made. The methods and techniques used even as little as twenty-thirty years ago have wildly changed and evolved to what we know today.

That said - My choices for caring for my birds have been based on continuous research, and I am always willing to consider making changes... if I feel there's enough substantial research backing it, and makes common sense.

TL;DR: I try to be very open minded. Some people prefer seed-based diets for the same species other people swear by pellet-based diets. Some preach for clipped wings, some preach for flighted. Different things work for different people and birds.

That said, please do not bash me if my opinions and choices differ from yours - be constructive, positive, and know I am always all-ears for new reading material, especially if it's got sources and citations! ;D

Also... Nope, I definitely don't pretend to be an expert! I'm just a bookwork who loves critters and wants to provide my adoptive family with the best care I can provide.

~~

I'm a personal fan of providing a primarily quality pelleted diet supplemented by vegetables, seed, and fruit.

That said, my first goal with Bongo is to get her on a much healthier diet! She's not yet been in for her first vet appointment, but she seems, to my eye, to be a little on the chubby side. I'll be digging out an electric scale eventually to test her weight, but I didn't want to scare or overwhelm her with too much happening in the first few weeks of her adjusting to a new home.

The same goes for her nails... They need a trim soon, more for my comfort than hers, admittedly. Those little claws are needle sharp! After Chicken, I've decided not to let anyone else trim my bird's nails. One too many experiences with vets or bird groomers lopping the claws off to terrible blunted nubs they couldn't climb with - or worse, cut into their quick! Ouch!

I just take the very teeny tips off with a nail clippers to keep them sharp enough they can climb and land safely, but not so needle-pointed they prickle my own skin.


I've made amazing and unexpected progress with Bongo, so far. I was not expecting to do much direct interaction with her for the first few days to a week, while she settled in, but Bongo changed those plans by insisting on it! So long as we're in her comfort zone and going at her pace, I figure we're doing A-ok with progress.

She steps up onto my hand without fuss unless she's on my shoulder, which takes a bit of convincing, but already she has improved from running back and forth to stepping up so long as I can get my hand right in front of her.

It has been quickly established that her favorite place to be is snuggled up to my neck.

Chicken was not a cuddly bird at all - it would not be inaccurate to describe him as a crotchety old man xD He would tolerate being pet on the head occasionally by me, and by my mother only after she gave him an almond, and liked to nap on my shoulder and be near me. I loved him dearly and he was a very strictly one-person bird, and I was totally fine with not having a cuddler.

So... Needless to say, I am a little drunk on the cuteness and novelty of feathery snuggles!

Should I have any concerns about her mistaking me for a potential mate with the contact? I only pet her head and touch her feet, though I wish to train her to accept being touched elsewhere for vet trips and harness training, if she'll allow it. She likes to snuggle up under my hair, so naturally that means it's draped over her back, and the side of my neck is against her wing.

She's also been nibbling on her veggies and pellets! Nothing totally eaten yet, but I consider it a major victory. I never was able to get Chicken to eat any vegetables. I tried everything from hiding it in his favorite foods to finely chopped up, or eating it myself to encourage him to want Mom's Food. (Chicken was 14-15 years old when I adopted him, compared to Bongo, who is still very young) I was ecstatic when I got him to eat orange bellpeppers. He adored them.

For one day, and one day only. After that, he'd fling them away or ignore them >.> Silly birds!

That said, I am hoping Bongo will be much easier to train to accept a wider variety of foods, as she is much younger.

I'm very comfortable at handling her and working with and around her. I live with my cousin, who is a little nervous around birds by nature of not being very familiar with them. I am nervous on training Bongo to be well socialized with other people, by nature of having little personal experience with it. Chicken was a decidedly one-person bird and after three years the most progress we made with other people, was he decided to allow my mother to soooometimes pet the top of his head after being given a treat, and he would let her pick him up if he found himself in an unhappy spot, and I was not immediately near him. He would also accept treats from anyone very politely.

For all others situations, he'd bite anyone who was not me. And - ouch! Boy, did he know how to bite. Right on the cuticles!

I get so worried that someone will get nipped by Bongo - and make a big reaction out of it that would encourage the behavior, and backfire. Any suggestions or advice on how to go about this in a safe way, for both Bongo, and the other humans involved? I know very few people who live near me who are familiar with birds.

There's several people at the rescue I work at, so that might be a weekly start, but I confess I'm a little nervous about bringing her into an environment filled with so many parrots who don't get quarantined. After Chicken's unexpected passing, I'm a little paranoid about possible disease transfer.

 

[noodles123]

ADORABLE PICTURES! You two look so cute together!

Yes, all parrot owners need to be aware of their parrots potential to see them as possible mates. This misconception by the bird is often erroneously encouraged by humans and it can lead to aggression (towards the object of the bird's affection, aggression towards other people, screaming, egg-laying (egg-binding=BAD) and plucking/anxiety). Basically, you are smart to only touch the head etc. Within the context of harness training, I would train with harness in-hand...My bird lets me touch her whenever, but not if I have the harness in-hand (she bites it and it is a work in progress...I love harnesses and I wish my bird took to hers with greater ease). It is a very slow process of desensitization and rewards etc. Don't try to force to harness all at once...especially on an older bird.

Anyway, my point is, within the context of putting on a harness, you should be okay if you have to quickly grab a wing gently (assuming you two are close at that point), but I wouldn't get the bird used to you touching him/her all over without the harness (unless the touching was in VERY short/infrequent stints), as that would likely send the wrong signal and probably won't translate to the harness scenario.

The more you expose her to other people, the better off you will be. For starters, you could try finding some people who have experience with birds and watch how she interacts with them. NOTE: If they have birds of their own, I wouldn't want them wearing the clothes they wore around theirs when handling mine (and vice-versa) UNLESS they (and I) had repeatedly tested both birds for diseases etc...paranoid, yes, but rightly so.

Keep in mind that birds tend to pick up on the fears and nervousness of those around them, so a bird will respond better to a calm/confident person than to a hesitant/scared person. That having been said, she will need to be exposed to a variety of people (even non-bird people).

You will have to become the expert on reading you bird...You may have friends/family get bitten...Just make sure they are they types of people who won't slam your bird down or make a big scene....Talk to them ahead of time about how to respond to various behaviors, and if your bird is with a new person, it is smart to keep your bird off of their shoulders and it also may help if they wear a coat or long sleeves (assuming your bird is cool with coats etc). Before you let people pick your bird up, encourage people to spend time around your bird and give your bird special treats etc (so that your bird associates new people with good things).

Certain common diseases (many deadly) can survive on surfaces for months and years. If "Chicken" inhabited the same home as your current bird, I really hope you purchased some of the YELLOW F10 SC (as it is second-best to Bleach as a general cleaner, kills parrots diseases better and is avian safe)- It is fabric safe etc...I would spray most things, such as carpet, drapes, cages etc and let it dry before allowing contact with the bird (I wouldn't spray the whole house in one day because that might be overload on anything- even an "avian safe" product...it does have bit of a scent)...That having been said, things like vinegar+water will not take care of the nastier viruses and bacteria (dilution ratios must be adjusted based on what you are trying to kill, so for something like PDD, higher concentrations are needed, but you can find this all online)...F10 can be used around the bird IN PROPER/DILUTED CONCENTRATIONS and it is WAY cheaper than standard cleaners once diluted (it lasts forever and is stable for up to 6 months AFTER mixing with water...prior to that, it lasts much longer). It also doesn't have to be wiped off, as long as it is allowed to dry.

Some viruses are shed in feather dust (airborne). You are VERY right to be worried. I would definitely avoid bringing my bird into contact with other birds (unless absolutely unavoidable)...ABV (Avian Borna Virus) is the precursor to DEADLY PDD and it is shed via dander/feather particles (as well as fecal matter etc). To make things worse, a bird that is infected with the disease can remain asymptomatic (meaning, they show no signs of illness while readily infecting others) and it has been estimated (based on numerous studies) that over 40% of the captive bird population in the USA carries it. On top of that, while testing is available, it only will produce a positive result if a bird is actively shedding the virus when tested. This means, that a positive is always positive, but a negative is NOT always a true negative. Additionally, just because one bird has it and shows no symptoms does not mean that a bird that becomes infected from "bird zero" will be asymptomatic as well...There are tons of other bad ones as well. I would NEVER bring my bird to a bird rescue unless absolutely essential for survival and I would ALWAYS change clothes and shower directly after work...I am not exaggerating....FEATHER DUST from an infected bird can be spread on a sleeve. When a student in my proximity had a bedbug problem last year, I had to take similar precautions (which included storing used work clothes AND SHOES +work totes in a trash-bag inside of a high-walled storage container until they could be dried in the dryer or taken back to school (per recommendation of the school nurse)...Yes, it sucked, but that is life, right? Never got them, but others did....and precautions save money and heart-ache.

In many parrots, a flaky beak is healthy. Consult your CAV. My cockatoo's beak is always a bit grey and flaky, but if it weren't that would signal a problem.

Avoid sunflower seeds and peanuts. If you must, wean her off...Sunflower seeds are like "birdy crack" and they can lead to problems like fatty liver...That having been said, a stubborn/picky bird can starve if it is totally cut off from foods it will eat (not all are so willful, but some will hunger strike). Never stop offering fresh foods- a hated fruit/veg could be discovered with enough attempts. PARROTS ARE SOOOOO SLOW when it comes to anything different/new.

It is safe to say that ignoring biting is best (in general)...(acting unaffected by it at least). A bird biting for attention wants chaos, or yelling, or a reaction from a particular person; a bird biting for escape wants to be left alone; a bird biting out of fear is slightly different. The best thing is to avoid the bite by reading cues before the bite happens, but if a bird who generally wants to be with you bites, then I would put that bird down, walk away for at least 15 seconds (back turned or out of sight) and only return if the bird is quiet (the only talking I might do would be a VERY MONOTONE AND QUIET "NO"...and not even that with some birds). Yelling will likely be fun for most birds (unless they are too young to know that their "beakiness" is hurting you). Think "poker face" and do the opposite of whatever your bird is after following a bite.


In general, you don't want to show them that they can control you via biting (so if you yell, you may enter a dog vs. squeaky toy situation...and in this scenario, you are the "squeaky toy" lol. )

You also do not want to get them comfortable with biting via lots of practice lol..

NOTE: A bird who is territorial or fearful WANTS you to back off, so if bitten, I WOULD NOT WALK AWAY (or you are just proving that biting works to ward off undesired people). That is why it is important to know the cause of the bite and with no other information, ignore it..AND watch for warnings ahead of time (as long as it isn't bratty bluffing stuff--early on, fear and "bratty" behavior look pretty similar, BUT be cautious, as they must be handled differently)...

If you really want to delve into this more (which I would highly recommend for any parrot owner), look into ABC charting (part of Applied Behavior Analysis). If you do a forum search or look through my posts using key-words like "a-b-c chart", "Applied Behavior Analysis", "ABA", and/or "abc chart", you will see where I have talked about this in great detail. Also, again this last part comes down to knowing your bird, but if I put my hand out and my bird is irritated with me, she will do a "fake-out"/head-jerk towards me (like she is going to bite). The more I back off or jerk my hand, the more she does it...soooo yes, read their signals...but also know when to call their "bluff"...Much of this will just take time and bonding...

A-B-C stands for, antecedent, behavior and consequence (FYI-consequence is not a punishment, it is just whatever happens directly following the bird's behavior). By charting with this method, you can isolate the reason/function behind the bites, which allows you to respond in a way that is more appropriate to your particular situation (you do not want to reinforce/give the bird what he is after when biting, or you will make it worse).

Based on the fact that you said you have researched, I assume that you also know about how Teflon/PFOA/PTFE can hide in things like hair-dryers, curlers, microwave popcorn bags, space-heaters, bake-in-a-bag meals, irons, ironing board covers, humidifiers, drip-trays, rice-cookers, air poppers/fryers etc etc...And anything scented including household cleaners, scented candles (or non-scented candles), air fresheners, scented oils, Sharpie markers, smoke from grills or cigarettes, or fumes from nail polish, nail polish remover, paints etc are all very dangerous around birds...

 

[Squeeing_Onion]

Noodles123 - First off, I want to say thank you for such a thorough and helpful post! I'm definitely going to check out the A-B-C charting you mentioned.

I am indeed aware of the Teflon, though the PFOA and PTFE are new acronyms to me. Are they of the same nature as Teflon/found in it, or are they something different?

Fortunately I've never held attachment to purfumes, hairspray, or anything of the sort. I myself am very sensitive to fumes and chemical cleaners. My housemate does smoke - but only outside the house, and she is very conscious about changing clothes and washing up before coming into contact with Bongo to avoid transfering residue through the bird's feetsies.

Chicken did indeed use the cage prior to Bongo. I cleaned it the first day with elbow greese scrubbing and a thorough wash-down and soak with an advertised all natural cleaner, then rinsed and let dry. Wiped down surfaces with bleach on the next, vaccumed the room and have done laundry on all my clothes that came into contact with him, and pretty much cleaned house.

Now that you've mentioned the F10, which I only just heard about yesterday for the first time, I'm getting a little paranoid my go-to cleaner and bleach rinses weren't enough?

I removed all wood and plastic toys - porous surfaces and chewed up to heck - from the cage and just threw them out. I saved all the stainless steel hardware for santization and re-use. I took all the wooden perches and have them stored, because I was trying to find out if I can indeed santize them for re-use, but most things I'm reading say there is no fool-proof method. People recommend baking them at 400 degrees in the oven or doing a heavily diluted bleach soak and long-term drying. The same methods are cited in most the tutorials I have read for making DIY perches from wild branches (taken from trees not fed by fertilizers or sprayed by pesticides). I'm leaning towards throwing the whole bag out and being done with it since I couldn't find any truly reliable read-ups on it. Do you have any thoughts on the subject? (either sanitizing perches for re-use or ones collected from outside if a pesticide/fertilizer/pollutant-free grove is at disposal)



Chicken came to me as a complete perch potato, I had to teach him how to play with toys and how to fly, and in the three years I was with him he was still inclined to be lazy so it was always a conscious effort to get him to be active. To that end, he pretty much chose to stay in my room where his cage was, until I took him with me to get him out of the room and go interact in other areas of the house. His cage door was open almost 24/7, so he could choose to sit outside his cage, climb on it, or go inside, but he rarely liked to leave it unless it was to step-up onto my hand or hop up to my shoulder.

Again - thank you so much for your sharing of experience and advice! It's really helpful, and I appreciate it.

 

[Squeeing_Onion]

I hope you'll pardon the double-post, but I felt this deserved it's own slot, not tacked on to the above reply, and is relevant to discussion:

I did some google searching on ABC charts after reading your posts on it Noodles, and found a well-written explanation on it and thorough break-down of applying it specifically to birds, with a nice example of the author actually applying it to their own parakeet!

[Onion... I had to delete that link. Our Administration doesn't allow direct links to competing forums. Would you be kind enough to summarize? Thanks for your understanding.]

It always amazes me how after reading something like this, it just kind of 'clicks' in my head as "well, duh, common sense!" - But I hadn't neccessarily thought of the situation in that particular way or detail, before.

For a scatter-brained thinker like me, having an organized outline to channel trains of thought through is very helpful, I've found.

 

[Brittany0208]

She's very cute, and looks comfortable with you already!

 

[GaleriaGila]

Thank you, noodles, for all that great advice and support.

I concur about the cuteness assessment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[noodles123]

Thanks for reading my "novel"! PFOA, PTFE, and Teflon are all basically the same (if you ever call to inquire with a company, give all acronyms and full names, as the people answering may not know what to look for)...They may not be identical at a chemical level, but for our purposes...

Teflon manufacturers (not all labelled as Teflon, of course) have come up with many uses for their product (clear-coats, adhesives, non-stick pan surfaces, and amalgamations within metal items that aren't coated)...Some microwave popcorn bags are coated with it....Heck, It's even in a lot of waterproof mascara...but that isn't heated, soooo, don't fret too much there.

Bleach kills things, but should not be mixed with anything else and must be allowed to sit in the sun etc for days after use.

Note: Cleaners (including f10 should never be mixed)..

F10 cleans CERTAIN bird viruses with greater efficacy and is safer. That having been said, bleach is still quite strong, just not very safe around birds after use (unless dried etc, and controversy remains)....plus, you can't spray it all over your house.

I have sprayed (or spilled) diluted F10 (yellow(ish) type) on my skin and/or clothes/carpet MANY times with no ill-effects. I even read a post about a person who bathed in the diluted form after her kid brought home a stomach virus (haven't gone that far, but I might LOL).
I would NOT do the same with the bottle of concentrate . With bleach, the end result would be much less favorable, smelly and unsafe for the birds breathing the air around me (assuming it was still wet).

 

[Squeeing_Onion]

I will look into picking up some of this F10 - any recommendations on where to buy?

Bleach kills things, but should not be mixed with anything else and must be allowed to sit in the sun etc for days.
F10 cleans CERTAIN bird viruses with greater efficacy and is safer. That having been said, bleach is still quite strong, just not very safe around birds after use (unless dried etc, and controversy remains)....plus, you can't spray it all over your house.

 

[noodles123]

There are many websites online...Check Amazon first but I may have bought their last 2 bottles a month ago lol (unless they re-stocked)...It cost about $20 bucks per TINY bottle, but it makes AN INSANE AMOUNT...SERIOUSLY, I did the math and it is cheap in comparison to any other cleaner (for the most part)...WAYYY cheaper than the gallon jugs of Windex etc---not that those are safe or effective for this type of thing, but just trying to give you an idea of how much a very small bottle can make...I want to say something like more than 13.4 gallons per 3.4 OZ....(THAT IS AT 2 ML PER 17 OZ OF WATER). It can be increased in concentration or decreased from there. Again, Goggle.


Just Google "f10 SC" and DO NOT get the soapy green kind because it is just a bigger hassle and must be washed off etc. The yellowish/clear is what you want. There are various dilution ratios-- I got a free 1 ml medicine syringe at the Wal-Mart pharmacy and I do 2ml per 17 oz of water in a chemically resistant (transparent/labeled) spray-bottle (also from Wal-Mart). That having been said, to kill the nastier stuff, you may have to increase the concentration slightly (but all of that is available online).


EDIT: I THOUGHT PRICE WENT UP (from my $20 ish), BUT IT HASN'T---THIS IS LITERALLY DOUBLE THE QUANTITY OF THE BOTTLES I was buying (just checked my cabinet)!!! (YAY) It will last you an INSANE amount of time..This really is a great deal compared to (unsafe) standard cleaners...perk= avian safe and doesn't have to be wiped off once dry...and it is so very cheap for the bulk produced.


LINK IS LISTED BELOW:


https://www.amazon.com/F10SC-Veteri...ocphy=9023812&hvtargid=pla-402123766553&psc=1


Here is a link to a smaller bottle (worse price) but if you read reviews, you get a better idea about the product:
https://www.amazon.com/F10SC-Veterinary-Disinfectant-F10-SC/dp/B00DR25TSG

 

[noodles123]

Funny side-note: I have forced my parents to use this when I visit, and my dad (who worked for YEARS in the chemical-side of the food industry LOL) finally confessed that,despite past doubts,he recognized the scent and that it was used frequently in food sanitation (he even knew the chemical name). After verifying that he wasn't just making things up lol, I proceeded to rant about why it isn't more widely used and his only thought was that it adds little in terms of scrubbing/break-down of grime. In his words, "you still have to remove the **quote*** SH*T, unless you want ***QUOTE**** "SANITIZED SH*T" lol..TRUE, but let anything soak long enough, and the "sh*t" will rub right off. At least, it works for me and I don't do much scrubbing.

 

[Squeeing_Onion]

Bwuahahaha, success is success!

Thank you so much for the link - next paycheck, I am getting some of this for my cleaning arsenal.

I totally forgot to mention, by the by - I am aware sunflower seed addiction is not a good thing! Day one I removed all of them from her seed food because she eats those first and tosses the rest out to get to them, thus wasting most her noms.

Instead... now she has to work for 'em I've started her on clicker training to then later progress into target+clicker training. She is so high energy, I think teaching her some tricks and games will be benefifcial to her, and her fellow humans!

It's already working out well! She's finicky about getting off my shoulder. I'm working on training her to step up immediately when asked, rather than me having to go through strange contortions to get my hand in front of her (which she will then happily step up), and she's already getting the hang of it after only her first few-minute long session.

 

[noodles123]

SIDE-NOTE: Birds/reptiles + other sensitive/special animals (exotics) tend to also tolerate this well, so it might serve a dual purpose (based on another post of yours that I saw--just wanted to mention it)

 

[Flboy]

Welcome to you!

 

[Squeeing_Onion]

Oooh, noted! Sanitization in my lizard's cage items has been pretty much restricted to rinsing with plain water and then baking in the oven, and the glass gets cleaned with bleach then left to dry for a few days while she stays in another cage settup (and very grumpy about it, too!)

I'm so excited to have been introduced to this cleaner, I've always been very concerned over the risk of any kind of residue being left behind; reptiles for their sensitive skin, and birds for they like to put their mouth and feet on eeeeeeeverything!

 

[TiredOldMan]

Anything around here that needs disinfecting gets 1 part F10SC to 250 parts RO water.