Open fires and parrots.

[Grenage]

Greetings,

I can appreciate there may be differences of opinion on this.

Our new home has a functioning open fire in the living-room, and the living-room is also the bird's room. Now assuming that the bird is not out and about, and the fire is drawing correctly - is anyone aware of any danger to birds?

I'm not talking about hysterical suspicions that anything other than filtered mountain air will be the death of our feathered joy, but real-world experience of parrots being negatively affected.

We don't use PTFE/PTOA cookware etc, because that is a known danger, but I am struggling to find reliable information that isn't hysterical or blasé.

Russell.

 

[Flboy]

Question, glass front? Or screen? Also, very low levels of carbon monoxide is death to your fid!

 

[Grenage]

Hi Flboy;

It would be a standard fire-guard in front of the fire, but in theory any and all emissions should go straight up the chimney. I appreciate the CO risks and will be fitting a detector - however birds are more sensitive than humans.

I wondered if having the parrot out of the room while the fire gets going, then bringing him back to his cage was viable.

 

[BeatriceC]

Oh, this is a perfect question for me. I was just wondering about that. Our fireplace is open into both living room and the dining room. Until this summer, the birds were one room over and there was never a problem, but now the birds are in the living room, so I was wondering if it was safe. Thanks for posting this!

 

[SailBoat]

Hi Flboy;

It would be a standard fire-guard in front of the fire, but in theory any and all emissions should go straight up the chimney. I appreciate the CO risks and will be fitting a detector - however birds are more sensitive than humans.

I wondered if having the parrot out of the room while the fire gets going, then bringing him back to his cage was viable.

It sounds like you have what we have. A gas-fired, fireplace with 'required' glass separation from the room and the open flame. The new systems draw outside air into the fire chamber and routes it back outside. Unless, some fool removed that glass panel, the unit is 98% safe. The 2% is based on either incorrect installation or operation, which the manufacturer cannot control.

So, assuming that it is installed and operated correctly, your Parrot will be safe during its operation. WARNING: Unless your unit was manufactured in 2016, it does not have a double glass separation panel. This is a concern for everyone, since the standard glass separation panel does become very hot! Hot enough to cause a burn to exposed skin. So, if your unit was manufactured prior to 2016, the Hot Glass panel is a serious risk to your Parrot!

In most all areas of the North America (Canada and USA) Building Code requests the use of one or more CO detector with any 'open flame' devise. It is highly recommended!

 

[BeatriceC]

Sailboat, what about an older fireplace with just a chainmail screen? Our house, and both fireplaces (the double sided one in the living room and dining room, and the single sided one in the rec room) were built in 1965, so they're not updated. The upward draw is really strong, and we never had a problem when the birds were one room over from the double sided one, but like I said previously, I'm more than a little concerned now that the birds are actually in the living room.

 

[Grenage]

HI Sailboat,

Oh no, it's an old school open fire for logs; no gas or stove involved. It's literally just the traditional stone hearth and burning wood.

 

[Anansi]

When you say standard fire-guard, do you mean the old school stuff that is placed in front of the fire that leaves space at the top for something bird-sized to fit through? Or something fitted?

And are we talking something automated that draws the air upward and out through the chimney? Or does it go up through the chimney due to the natural tendency of heat to rise?

 

[BeatriceC]

In my case it's a chain mail "curtain" that's exactly the size of the opening, attached to the top of the opening, and overlaps a few inches in the middle. It's actually kind of a pain to open and close because it drags along the bottom to make sure there's no gap.

 

[Grenage]

Old-school mesh guard that stops spitting embers getting to the carpet - the bird wouldn't be out and about when the fire was burning.

When a chimney gets warm it has a draw which very effectively pulls the air up and out of the house.

 

[SailBoat]

Sailboat, what about an older fireplace with just a chainmail screen? Our house, and both fireplaces (the double sided one in the living room and dining room, and the single sided one in the rec room) were built in 1965, so they're not updated. The upward draw is really strong, and we never had a problem when the birds were one room over from the double sided one, but like I said previously, I'm more than a little concerned now that the birds are actually in the living room.

You are not going to be at all happy with me!

The open double-side fireplaces of that time sickened and/or burnt more than their fair share of people over the years. The only way that they could get those things to draw safely was to install an oversized flue. That would draw huge volumes of air out of the house. And, that would drive the cost of heating the home way up. In addition, for their even somewhat safe operation, they required an inspection and cleaning of the entire fireplace at least every three years, since the heavy draw commonly resulted in higher /faster /hotter burning fires. They are so bad, that most people just bricked them closed.

It could be said that resulting from the huge volumes of air being drawn that the exchange of the home's air is so great that pockets of CO would not occur. It can also be said that with just the opening of an exterior door, just for those couple of minutes, can and does effect that draw of the fireplace enough that the fireplace does not draw at all.

So, is your concern valid, YES!

FYI: Based solely on the effect of your fireplace drawing heated air from within your home, even when not in use and the flue closed, (those flues leak air all the time). You could recoup the cost of up-grading to a new design. Prior to taking this any further, you really need to have the complete unit inspected from its foundation to its very top above your home by a professional. Lots of options available, but if you have a structural problem, you really need to know it before you put any additional time or money into it.

 

[BeatriceC]

Thanks, Sailboat.

The upward draw is actually really strong, and I've wondered if the flue is oversized. I use it mainly for ambiance, and only once or twice a year. This is San Diego. It doesn't get consistently cold enough to use it, really, but I like the ambiance of a fire going while I'm putting up the Christmas tree, or playing Santa Claus on Christmas Eve. Come to think of it, that's pretty much the only time I use the fireplace.

We do have a CO detector, but I'm wondering if it would be sensitive enough to alert for levels that are problematic for birds but not humans. Also, what about that set up with just the gas fire under the fake stone logs?

 

[SailBoat]

OK, lots of additional questions.

Open Wood or Gas Fireplaces: Are by their very nature dangerous to Parrots and Children alike. The risk is falling or flying into the Fireplace! Concerns regarding CO gas, there is a false belief that with enough draw, no CO gas will pool in the house. Very minor changes in the flow of air within the home can /does cause reverse flow back into the home. This is very common anytime an exterior door is opened and closed.

Gas Fired, Fireplaces - Prior to 2016 but after 2005: Are required to have a sealing Glass Panel that separates the burning chamber from the room. At the start of manufacturing in 2016, the Glass Panel is required to have first the sealed piece and than an off-set second piece that reduces the heat of that second panel, greatly reducing the likelihood of skin being burnt. If your Gas Fired Fireplace does not have a Glass panel, see above.

OK, I will check and address each additional question!

 

[wrench13]

Just my opinion, but free flighted birds and any kind of fireplace dont mix... well, duh. Caged birds in the same room as an old school log stone hearth type fireplaces really dont mix - I've had too many experiences with the the fireplace blowing back due to wind or not drawing correctly when being lit - both resulted in mega amount of smoke being in the room.

As i said, just my opinion, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[SailBoat]

When you say standard fire-guard, do you mean the old school stuff that is placed in front of the fire that leaves space at the top for something bird-sized to fit through? Or something fitted?

And are we talking something automated that draws the air upward and out through the chimney? Or does it go up through the chimney due to the natural tendency of heat to rise?

OK, with only Gas-Fired Fireplaces: The recent and current designs separate the burning chamber from the interior of the home with a Sealed Glass Panel. This 'greatly reduces' any exchange of air between the two areas. When installed and operated to manufacturers specifications its near 100% separation. The burning chamber receives outside air and after burning that air flows back outside. This is the same that is happening with new design furnaces. Totally Separated!

The flow of air and the venting needed for this recent and current designs can look like the plastic pipes you see for new Technology Furnaces on the side of the home. Others will use a special Vent Panel that is commonly make of Aluminum and mounts to the side of the home and incorporating both flows. The last and quickly become rare is what looks like a traditional chimney but has two pipes in it with one connected to a fan that is drawing fresh are down and into the burning chamber.

Hopes this address your questions.

 

[Kiwibird]

Great thread topic with cooler weather approaching! We also have a wood burning fireplace in our new home with the chain mail screen. I've never had a wood burning type before and we don't plan to ever use it, but since it sounds like we have some fireplace-knowledgeable people on here I have another question about them (hope no one minds me asking):

Is it ok to put a fabric cover over the front of the fireplace? I don't really like how the whole thing looks and have a feeling all our warm air will be going up it. Will it damage it in any way to not use it and just cover it up?

 

[SailBoat]

Thanks, Sailboat.

The upward draw is actually really strong, and I've wondered if the flue is oversized. I use it mainly for ambiance, and only once or twice a year. This is San Diego. It doesn't get consistently cold enough to use it, really, but I like the ambiance of a fire going while I'm putting up the Christmas tree, or playing Santa Claus on Christmas Eve. Come to think of it, that's pretty much the only time I use the fireplace.

We do have a CO detector, but I'm wondering if it would be sensitive enough to alert for levels that are problematic for birds but not humans. Also, what about that set up with just the gas fire under the fake stone logs?

Oboy, I really need to find a way to get to your happy side, but this Thread will likely not be it. Sorry!

Sadly the two most dangerous old school fireplaces are the ones that burn lots of not properly dried wood at low temperatures and in your case the rarely used fireplaces. Since the latter applies to you, lets look just at your usage.

I fully understand the joy of the Season and a wood burning fire. And in those areas that do not have in your face clues as to it being Winter like being in the Great White North, I get it. To safely use your fireplace, you should have it professional clean and structurally inspected very 3 to 5 years.

CO Detectors, are they sensitive enough? First: Location, location, location. If your Parrot hates being on the floor, more than likely Yes. However, if you have a 'Walk-About' guy like we have, no way are they sensitive enough. That being said, if your CO Detector is on the ceiling; your Parrots and any Human with breathing problems will likely have passed before the alarm sounds. We use them in sets of three, one set between the furnace and hot water heater and one set in the living room near the Gas-fired Fireplace. Since we have a 'Open Floor Plan' this also covers the kitchen.

Set of Three: This is clearly over kill by anything I have read regarding they placement. However, having a little experience with dangerous gases and their common recommended configuration, the Set of Three. I have configured ours the same way: one at floor level, one at ceiling level and one between.

Converting from burning Wood to a Gas Fire under the fake stone /logs: Before you proceed, it is very important to have your current Fireplace structurally inspected. The last thing you want is to be deep into looking at a change only to find that the structure of your existing unit is moments away from failing. That said, the industry is rapidly walking away, OK, running away from straight conversions. When natural or LPG gas burns it release moisture that cause the existing structure to fail, so they need to install piping, etc. Cost go up rapidly and you know the story from that point. So unless you plan on using it at least a couple times a week, likely not worth the effort.

 

[SailBoat]

Great thread topic with cooler weather approaching! We also have a wood burning fireplace in our new home with the chain mail screen. I've never had a wood burning type before and we don't plan to ever use it, but since it sounds like we have some fireplace-knowledgeable people on here I have another question about them (hope no one minds me asking):

Is it ok to put a fabric cover over the front of the fireplace? I don't really like how the whole thing looks and have a feeling all our warm air will be going up it. Will it damage it in any way to not use it and just cover it up?

Great Question! And, one that will at least hold me in good stead.

There is no question that it is very likely that you are losing expensive heated air up it!

Knowing that you have already done this, lets say that I'm adding this for other member! -First, Clean the burning area and remove all ashes etc.. that maybe in there-.

Inspect the flue for operation and most importantly that it can fully close! Make any adjust that maybe needed to get the flue to fully close. Check the area around the flue for fit to assure that air cannot simply flow around the flue frame. Do not take the flue from its location or move it to a point that it could come lose. If you do, it will require a professional to reset the flue!

If the side walls or any other parts are metal (like the Flue), consider using a shaker can, spray paint to protect the metal from rusting (high-temperature would be preferred, but not required).

At this point, filling the burning chamber with a fiberglass insulation is a good idea. It will reduce heat loss even more and limit 'things' from taking up living in there. Check with friends and family, commonly someone has a half roll sitting around. FYI: REMOVE THE PAPER BACKING!

NOTE: Whatever is sitting in the burning chamber or in front of the Fireplace, which is part of it, place it in the burning chamber. This will allow you to remove the insulation and replace the exterior fireplace components when you elect to sell and move-on. Fireplaces still have value and having the fireplace 'Stuff' will let your take advantage of that value.

Now, finally to your question. At this point, you can place whatever you want in front of that opening! Just make sure that it is fairly easy to remove!

NOTE: It would be wise to check the very top of the chimney to assure that rain cannot easily get in. Nothing worst than getting all your efforts wet because the chimney top failed and allow rain to enter. That may require a professional.

With your tastes, it will look wonderful!

 

[Grenage]

So nobody has any experience of a bird being negatively affected by the presence of an open fire? Assuming the bird is in the cage, of course.

 

[Anansi]

So nobody has any experience of a bird being negatively affected by the presence of an open fire? Assuming the bird is in the cage, of course.

I don't have a fireplace, so I can't speak from personal experience, but I think the following quote from Al does cover some of the possible dangers.

...Caged birds in the same room as an old school log stone hearth type fireplaces really dont mix - I've had too many experiences with the the fireplace blowing back due to wind or not drawing correctly when being lit - both resulted in mega amount of smoke being in the room...

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