Pellet Intolerance

[Teddscau]

Hey everyone. I was wondering if anyone else had issues with their birds suffering from some sort of "pellet intolerance." Years ago, I only fed my birds seeds, sprouts, veggies, and Nekton-S (bird vitamin). Then a number of vets guilted me into feeding a pellet-based diet. Long story short, I've come to the conclusion that budgies are sensitive to pellets. It's not necessarily the ingredients in the pellets, but the fact that they're extremely dry, dense little pieces of highly processed food. Prior to feeding pellets, my budgies always lived for a long time (8+ years), were energetic, had no obvious signs of illness or malnutrition, and had healthy digestive tracts.

After I started feeding pellets, they'd often look like they were in pain, were nauseous, had issues digesting food (there would sometimes be bits of undigested food in their feces), would gag, get pasting of the vent, and would vomit fairly regularly. Then they started getting tummy troubles after eating birdie bread. Some are affected worse than others, especially the older budgies. Some just feel a bit uncomfortable after eating pellets, while others look completely miserable.

I never had any overweight, weak, or budgies suffering from liver disease when their diet was seed-based (with veggies and sprouted seeds, grains, and pulses), but the avian vets I saw and all the websites I go on insist my birds will die from malnutrition and clogged arteries if I don't give them pellets. And the fact that so many vets and websites say budgies should barely have any seeds in their diet. I know from experience that my budgies become extremely distressed and antsy if they don't have enough seeds in their diet. It's not them just wanting to eat "junk food". It's like they desperately need it in order to function properly.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced these issues with their budgies. I've adjusted the composition of their dry mix so that oats, millet, and Nutriberries make up a larger percentage of their diet compared to before (the mix consists of millet, oats, Nutriberries, Harrison's, Roudybush, TOPs, and Goldn'obles III), and they're doing better.

 

[Scott]

I have fed a variety of pellets over the years and have not noticed intolerance. Many brands are not liked and therefore ignored or tossed. Have switched types to more nutritious types, less loaded with sugars or filler ingredients.

 

[SailBoat]

I think that it is important to state that Parrot Diet has always been a hot button topic with several different sides, all stating the strength of their diet and the weakness of all the others.

What you are describing does not sound like 'Intolerance' but more an issue with the size, type, ingredient, and/or manufacturer of the pellet. It is important to remember that like any dry food source, it should be properly stored to assure its freshness!

I tend to look first at assuring that the Parrot (In My Case Amazons) have a healthy cross-section of the Natural Wet and Dry Foods that are available in their Natural Home Range. To this base, we have added 'some' pellets as a means of assure a solid diet.

IMHO, and fully acknowledging that others have differing view points, pellets represent the smallest percentage of the diet, an the amount that adjusts after our Amazons yearly blood tests.

The term 'Seed Diet" has come to mean near all Sunflower Seed, which can be problematic for some Parrots and a boring diet for all.

There are thousands of different types of Seeds, and the vast over-use of cheap sunflower seed has become the norm with some providing 100% sunflower seed. Vets and yes Avian Vets have come to see a 'Seed' diet as a Sunflower Seed Diet and as a result, if they push pellets it is better for the Bird and if they sell the pellets, better for them.

With the exception of your adding Vitamin additive, you have a good base diet. It needs to have a higher presentation of Wet fresh Veggies (dark green to light green) and then expanding widely to those most common in your Birds Natural Range. To that base is added a Wide Spectrum, Healthy Mix of Seeds, grains, tiny amounts of nuts, dry pasta, freeze dried Veggies, etc... Note the lack of Fruits! Fruits should be more of a treat as a means of not overfeeding them.

 

[Laurasea]

Budgies are a seed eat parakeet in the wild, tho tgdy gir sure eat vegetation and otger stuff as well.

My budgies have seed mix at all times, tgey aldo hsve daily veggies wide variety, leafy lettuces, and pellets. On the pellet front the current favorite is oven baked tgey eT tge crubs tge other parrots leave, or I grind some up for them.

Its possible you have s virus in your collection , or thst mega yeast/ bacteria.

 

[Laurasea]

Budgies Avian Gastric Yeast (AGY) infection

Also known as macrorhabdiosis, or megabacteriosis, this highly contagious infection is frustratingly difficult to spot in the early stages. The AGY incubates and proliferates in the bird with no outward sign of trouble. The first thing you might notice is that your budgie loses weight, in spite of eating with his usual gusto. This is because the AGY impedes digestion. You may then spot undigested food in his droppings, or the bird may vomit food and mucus. He will also become listless.

Until 2004 the cause of the disease was thought to be a bacteria, but it has now been identified as a yeast, Latin name Macrorhabdus ornithogaster. The misdiagnosis came about due to bacteria, including Streptococcus, taking advantage of the budgie’s hammered immune system and spreading secondary infection. The combination of the yeast and bacteria attack leads to a condition called wasting disease (sometimes called “going light”).

Your vet will be able to administer a drug to combat the AGY, and will recommend a healthy diet to aid recovery. This usually involves omitting all yeast-feeding sugary foodstuffs.

You will still need to keep a close eye on your birds, as AGY has the horrible habit of lying fallow and then blooming again a few weeks later.

Budgie Candidiasis

This is another yeast infection. Candida, the organism responsible, is a form of thrush (the virus, not the bird!), and can bloom anywhere in a budgie’s digestive system from the crop downwards. Some of the symptoms are similar to AGY infection – listlessness, vomiting and loose droppings. The vomit will have a nasty smell, and the bird’s crop may swell up, due to gases produced by the Candida yeast. In advanced cases the budgie will suffer loss of balance and shaking fits.

Candidiasis can only be cured with drugs that kill the bacteria, so a trip to the vet is essential. The cure takes about one week, during which the budgie’s diet should be closely controlled to avoid the ingestion of yeast-feeding sugars.

Budgie Sour Crop

This condition has more than one cause, but all the suspects are members of the yeast family. The symptoms are a swollen crop and sour-smelling vomit. Once again, it will take a targeted drug to kill the infection.

yellow-headed budgie feeding on ground
Candida lurks in the budgie’s digestive system

B

 

[fiddlejen]

Didn't you just post in another thread that your budgies live in an aviary? This is just speculation, but, I think the pellets-are-better concept may be more appropriate for birds living in smaller cages who get possibly less exercise than aviary birds. I mean, sure, an aviary bird get less exercise than a wild bird. But on the other hand they can still fly ARound inside the aviary whenever they like. My own budgies have a huge cage, and can do very short flights inside if-needed, but mostly climb or walk when inside their cage. And most inside-budgies have cage-homes that are much smaller than mine. On the other hand, when out of their cage, having access to the whole house, they tend to limit themselves to an area not that much larger than many aviaries might be.

So to me it makes sense that pellets, which are designed to prevent diseases of over-nutrition in budgies with limited flight-time-exercise, MIGHT potentially be quite incorrect for aviary budgies who can fly around whenever they want; and who are getting exercise much closer to what they are designed for, as compared with the limited-exercise budgies for whom the Pellets were designed.

(All that said, you definitely want to look into the issues Laurasea mentioned above!)

 

[Teddscau]

I always get my birds the smallest pellet size, and the next size up as well since I have the Green Devils (Noah and Rosie) who enjoy the larger size as well. I store my Harrison's in the freezer, and I keep the rest in a cupboard with as much of the air as possible squeezed out of the bags (I buy them "fresh" pellets every four months since I have to order their food in bulk since it's not available locally). Often if any of the food starts smelling stale (which only happens once in a blue moon), I'll dump it in with my hermit crabs for them to eat. I think they might be sensitive to Goldn'obles and sweet potato.

Speaking of foods available in their home range, I'm gonna make more of an effort to offer them grass seed that I've collected myself (collected away from pollution, chemicals, toxins, and washed and frozen). This summer I also planted a bunch of plants native to Ontario in my yard, and most of them are edible to birds and will start "producing" over the next few years. I've gotten lazy when it comes to giving them veggies (I quit after my kākāriki died because I became a bit depressed), but I guess I'll force myself to start making chop again for them. They prefer it when I cut the veggies by hand >_>. Most of my animals would benefit from chop (birds, dogs, hermit crabs), so I guess I'll be getting into that again. I also used to do mash for them. Guess I could do that too. My kids don't particularly like fruit, and I rarely give them any (I tend to only give the occasional slice of apple, berries, and wild fruits). I'm trying to teach them to eat fruit since I did buy a bunch of plants that produce low-sugar fruits edible to birds.

As for disease, we already looked into AGY, candida, and sour crop. I had an outbreak of AGY a few years back (not sure which of my birds it came in on), but only five of my birds had it, and all five ended up dying within two years of treatment. I've had several other birds tested over the years since then (I know it only sheds occasionally), but they were all clear as well, even the most immune compromised of my birds. It was such a pain in the butt disinfecting everything, and for several months following the outbreak I sprinkled their food with probiotics and citric acid, put apple cider vinegar in their water, and routinely disinfected everything with bird-safe cleaner and vinegar.

Oh, and worse. I realized this month that my kākāriki likely had avian bornavirus in addition to the AGY, which makes me absolutely ill. I guess when you tell the vets to test for absolutely everything, they only test for a few things. The only reason we discovered the AGY was because one of the lab techs accidentally performed a gram staining. The AGY was likely just a red herring. And since the kākāriki (and the three infected budgies with AGY) died, I don't think I've seen any symptoms of avian bornavirus. I know it can be asymptomatic for years, but I had a couple of necropsies performed since then, and none of them had signs of PDD. From now on I'm having full necropsies performed on my birds (and saltwater fish) for peace of mind.

Man, that ticks me off though. I specifically have to tell the vets the exact tests I want done, which means I have to have near vet-level knowledge of various illnesses. Like, if I have a bird with a mysterious illness, I want them to perform literally every non-lethal test known to man, using all the different techniques, even for the rarest and unlikeliest of illnesses. I WILL pay for them.

Fiddlejen, I agree with you on the whole pellet thing. Some of my birds have been a bit chunky or underweight when I got them, but within a few months of being introduced to the aviary (after quarantine), they become a good weight, become very muscular, and can zoom around the place for a few minutes before becoming winded (they're only this active when they escape the aviary and start flying wildly around the basement).