Polyuria in whiteface lutino cockatiel - please help

TKP

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Mar 6, 2022
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Hello,

A couple of weeks ago, Celestin, my 6 year old whiteface lutino cockatiel suddenly developed polyuria overnight. He and my other pet cockatiel, Gilbert (heavy pied mutation, 12 yrs old), have been on a diet of dry food (nutriberries + Intune pellets + Caitec Ovenfresh + TOPS pellets) and fresh veggies (spinach, kale, peas, carrot, corn) all their life. Several days per week, I also sprinkle a small amount of organic spices/health supplement (turmeric power, ginger powder, cayenne powder, dandelion powder, milk thistle powder, dried herb salad mix, and brewer's yeast) on their dry food. They are flighted and live in a 7' x 5' aviary. Playtime outside the aviary is carefully monitored and they have access to only bird-safe toys without any lead-based paint.

I took him to an avian vet once the polyuria started. I am concerned he has renal failure but the vet believes it is a bacterial infection and prescribed an antibiotic (0.06 ml baytril twice a day) for 10 days. I am almost done with the treatment now, but there has been marginal to no improvement in his polyuria. The 1st picture is fresh poop that he drops first thing in the morning (The whited-out part is poop from my other pet, so I erased it to avoid confusion). The urine is hard to see in the picture, but the wet stain on the paper towel is abnormally huge compared to his previous 6 years of pooping. The 2nd picture shows 1-day old dried poop that he dropped midday. This has been a repeating pattern the past 2 weeks; the feces part of his very first morning poop seems marginally okay (but still lots of urine), while all other droppings for the rest of the day have very thin and fragmented feces with little urate and lots of urine (after a few hours, they dry into almost nothing, like in the 2nd pic).

He is still active and eats well and has no weight loss. My other cockatiel is hale and healthy, which is another reason I think this isn't a bacterial infection that can spread. But I very concerned that Celestin has kidney issues, and the polyuria was exactly how the renal failure started for my previous pet, Celina, whom I lost 7 years ago. I didn't know better back then, and by the time I took her to the vet, it was too late. An autopsy revealed her kidneys were half the size of what they should have been. I don't want to experience that painful memory again with my current pet.

There are very, very few avian vets in my area and the one I took him to has 30+ years of experience with birds. There is one other highly reputed avian vet in my area but she is booked solid for 2 more weeks, so I'll have to wait a while to get a second opinion. Is there any other treatment for kidney issues? Herbal supplements? Or could this be some other ailment? White face lutinos are known to be more vulnerable with weakened immune systems, but my guy is from a 20+ yr reputed breeder who has been carefully breeding the lighter mutations without diluting the genetic diversity in his flock. So I don't think Celestin has any of the common hereditary issues known to plague white face lutinos. Please help, what else can I do to help my pet?

Thank you,
TKP
 

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Laurasea

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hello, sorry you joined because of a sick birdie.

I'm so glad to hear you already had a vet check. And that they have been on a great diet.

I'm not a vet, nor do i know all the reasons a bird can have increased urine.

But I know chlamydia pstici can cause it. Baytril is not effective against this bacteria. If your bird did have this infection it would need doxycline.

Increased warmth is helpful for sick birds. Also good nutrition support. But you said still eating great, wonderful to hear.

Until you can get a second opinion which never hurts. Call and let your current veterinarian know that there hasn't been improvement , and what do they advice? Veterinarian and human doctors often have to adjust based on response and changes. Life is complex, many conditions can have the same symptoms.....sometimes its trial and error
 

LaManuka

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Welcome to the forums, TKP, but I'm sorry for the worrying circumstances.

It's difficult to say what your Celestin's problem may be, but issues concerning kidney or liver function are best determined by running blood tests. I cannot see from your writings whether blood testing has been carried out just yet - my apologies if they have already been done and I'm just not seeing it property! If no testing has been done yet, I would recommend that that should be your next step, in order to more accurately diagnose whether those issues exist, or hopefully to rule them out.

I wish you the very best of luck 🙏
 
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TKP

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Thank you Laurasea and LaManuka for your valuable input, much appreciated.

I will call the vet to verify if he had tested for chlamydia pstici. The report states gram stain test and urine test were performed. There is no mention of a blood test. I need to call and verify the details (because of COVID restrictions, I had to wait outside the building while a nurse came up to my car and took Celestin inside for examination, so I wasn't sure of what exactly they did inside). I will call and get the details now and also update them on the progress. I will also request for a blood test to be performed and see if they prescribe doxycline. Thank you both so much.
 

HeatherG

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What if your bird had some reason to be drinking a large amount? That could be a health reason, too. But that’s another cause of very wet poops. Stress poops are also very wet.
 
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TKP

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Heather- good point, thank you. The living environment has been pretty much the same for my birds for the past half decade. Same people around them, same aviary, same play-gym, same variety of food, same noise level from neighbors and their pets, etc. The only thing that has been changing every few months are the bird-safe enrichment toys in the aviary. We do have the rare night-frights when the noisy delivery truck unloads shipment in the middle of the night for the grocery store across the street, but that's something that has been happening since the time my pets hatched and they are more used to it now than before. I'm unable to identify any other stressor that could suddenly cause watery stress poop now.

Update: I took Celestin to the other avian vet in my area for a 2nd opinion. She found anaerobic bacteria in the gram stain and prescribed Clavamox (another antibiotic) for 10 days + Nystatin (antifungal) for 21 days. [So apparently, the previous Baytril wasn't enough].The was some improvement after this -the feces part was more solid- but the polyuria still persisted. The vet did another follow-up gram stain after the new antibiotic treatment was complete and found no yeast + a mild amount of anaerobic bacteria left that she felt was not due to an infection, but rather due to hormonal urges. She prescribed melatonin to be added in the drinking water for 30 days. It is now 20 days since the melatonin supplement was started, but no further improvement at all. Next vet visit in 10 days.
 
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TKP

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Hello everyone,

It has been a year and a half since I made this post and wanted to share some updates. Celestin's polyuria is still the same. The vet ran more tests and prescribed more medications, but nothing seemed to have helped. She also suggested adding some supplements like rehmannia extract to his diet. I've been sprinkling Sun Ten brand's rehmannia 8, milk thistle extract, dandelion root extract, turmeric & ginger powder on his pellets every day since last spring. While his polyuria hasn't gone away, he is still happy and active and is leading an otherwise normal life. And I'm planning to continue with all the herbal extracts.

If anyone else has feathered companions with chronic polyuria, please share your experience here and maybe tips on how you're making life more comfortable for them.
 

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hiriki

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My lutino cockatiel, Bitty, had a similar problem. All of her bloodwork came back normal and they confirmed she didn't have borna, which if I remember correctly my vet told me often causes watery poops, nor did she have psittacosis. She was constantly eating (Lafeber pellets and chop) and CONSTANTLY drinking. And for all her constant eating she was thin as a rail. But she was very active, and generally healthy... at least as far as clinical signs are concerned.

She did pass suddenly earlier this year. I was hoping that a necropsy would shed some light on what bloodwork and viral tests couldn't figure out but after the necropsy my vet told me that she looked healthy. I still have no idea what happened--or if her watery poops had anything to do with whatever eventually took her life. I will admit that I don't know how old she was when she passed, she wasn't a rescue in the strictest definition of the word but I found her neglected and abused at a pet shop. They told me she was less than a year old at the time (maybe 2015?) which was almost definitely not true... she could have very well been a senior... I don't know.
 
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TKP

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So sorry to hear your Bitty has passed away. Thoughts and prayers.

I'll check with my vet if she had tested Celestin for bornavirus and psittacosis earlier. I think she did, but I have to double-check. Thank you for sharing.
 

hiriki

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I think we also tested for yeast infection, I think they called that test a gram stain? Im not sure, but it was a swab of her vent and I think they took a swab from around her beak too. In my case every test we threw at her came back negative but if you haven't tried those tests it's worth checking.
 
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TKP

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Thank you, yes, a gram stain was done at the beginning and the vet prescribed some meds for both bacterial and yeast infection since the test came back positive. A follow-up test a month later came back negative for both, but the polyuria has continued to stay for the past year and a half. I'll call the vet's office once they open to double-check if they ever did the bornavirus and psittacosis tests you had mentioned.
 

4 way borbs

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What water do you use? My birds get on fine with tap and they never had any health issues.but maybe distilled or spring. im not a guru or anything but i don't mind alternative medicine a bit.
 
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4 way borbs

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What water do you use? My birds get on fine with tap and they never had any health issues.but maybe distilled or spring. im not a guru or anything but i don't mind alternative medicine a bit.
also IM NOT A WITCH ETHER
 
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TKP

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The past 4 years, my birds have been drinking filtered tap water (Britta filter cartridges that are attached to the kitchen sink faucet - I replace the cartridge every 4 months). I'll try bottled spring water, thank you for the suggestion.

May I please know what kind of alternative medicine you're thinking of? Accupressure, ayurveda, etc. are my go-to for my own healthcare as opposed to mainstream allopathic doctors, but I haven't yet found any avian vets practicing alternative medicine in my locality. In fact, I've found only 3 avian vet hospitals in my city and all of them follow mainstream medicine. But it was one of them who recommended rehmannia extract to be added to my bird's diet, so I'm guessing they embrace a mix of mainstream and alternative medicine.
 

4 way borbs

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The past 4 years, my birds have been drinking filtered tap water (Britta filter cartridges that are attached to the kitchen sink faucet - I replace the cartridge every 4 months). I'll try bottled spring water, thank you for the suggestion.

May I please know what kind of alternative medicine you're thinking of? Accupressure, ayurveda, etc. are my go-to for my own healthcare as opposed to mainstream allopathic doctors, but I haven't yet found any avian vets practicing alternative medicine in my locality. In fact, I've found only 3 avian vet hospitals in my city and all of them follow mainstream medicine. But it was one of them who recommended rehmannia extract to be added to my bird's diet, so I'm guessing they embrace a mix of mainstream and alternative medicine.
crystals mainly, i would do Reiki if i could afford it. and i love a sound bath.just remember that ALTERNATIVE MED IS NOT APPROVED BY THE FDA. i looked it up. try herbal therapy
 

DonnaBudgie

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Hello,

A couple of weeks ago, Celestin, my 6 year old whiteface lutino cockatiel suddenly developed polyuria overnight. He and my other pet cockatiel, Gilbert (heavy pied mutation, 12 yrs old), have been on a diet of dry food (nutriberries + Intune pellets + Caitec Ovenfresh + TOPS pellets) and fresh veggies (spinach, kale, peas, carrot, corn) all their life. Several days per week, I also sprinkle a small amount of organic spices/health supplement (turmeric power, ginger powder, cayenne powder, dandelion powder, milk thistle powder, dried herb salad mix, and brewer's yeast) on their dry food. They are flighted and live in a 7' x 5' aviary. Playtime outside the aviary is carefully monitored and they have access to only bird-safe toys without any lead-based paint.

I took him to an avian vet once the polyuria started. I am concerned he has renal failure but the vet believes it is a bacterial infection and prescribed an antibiotic (0.06 ml baytril twice a day) for 10 days. I am almost done with the treatment now, but there has been marginal to no improvement in his polyuria. The 1st picture is fresh poop that he drops first thing in the morning (The whited-out part is poop from my other pet, so I erased it to avoid confusion). The urine is hard to see in the picture, but the wet stain on the paper towel is abnormally huge compared to his previous 6 years of pooping. The 2nd picture shows 1-day old dried poop that he dropped midday. This has been a repeating pattern the past 2 weeks; the feces part of his very first morning poop seems marginally okay (but still lots of urine), while all other droppings for the rest of the day have very thin and fragmented feces with little urate and lots of urine (after a few hours, they dry into almost nothing, like in the 2nd pic).

He is still active and eats well and has no weight loss. My other cockatiel is hale and healthy, which is another reason I think this isn't a bacterial infection that can spread. But I very concerned that Celestin has kidney issues, and the polyuria was exactly how the renal failure started for my previous pet, Celina, whom I lost 7 years ago. I didn't know better back then, and by the time I took her to the vet, it was too late. An autopsy revealed her kidneys were half the size of what they should have been. I don't want to experience that painful memory again with my current pet.

There are very, very few avian vets in my area and the one I took him to has 30+ years of experience with birds. There is one other highly reputed avian vet in my area but she is booked solid for 2 more weeks, so I'll have to wait a while to get a second opinion. Is there any other treatment for kidney issues? Herbal supplements? Or could this be some other ailment? White face lutinos are known to be more vulnerable with weakened immune systems, but my guy is from a 20+ yr reputed breeder who has been carefully breeding the lighter mutations without diluting the genetic diversity in his flock. So I don't think Celestin has any of the common hereditary issues known to plague white face lutinos. Please help, what else can I do to help my pet?

Thank you,
TKP
I would make sure she has plenty of water to drink so she doesn't get dehydrated. Put white paper towels on the floor of her cage so you can get a better idea of whether the urine is discolored at all and an idea of the urine volume by the size of the urine ring. It should be colorless. Green or yellow urine isn't good. Save and date/time the paper towels and bring them to your next vet appointment. I had a budgie die of kidney failure at 13 and he had it for a couple years before he died from it and at the end he was very sick. A young bird shouldn't get it.
 

DonnaBudgie

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I would make sure she has plenty of water to drink so she doesn't get dehydrated. Put white paper towels on the floor of her cage so you can get a better idea of whether the urine is discolored at all and an idea of the urine volume by the size of the urine ring. It should be colorless. Green or yellow urine isn't good. Save and date/time the paper towels and bring them to your next vet appointment. I had a budgie die of kidney failure at 13 and he had it for a couple years before he died from it and at the end he was very sick. A young bird shouldn't get it.
I would also stop the powdered supplement in case something in it is causing the polyuria.
 

4 way borbs

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Fun fact! oregino is a anti bononic for birds and its VERY healthy for them.
 

hiriki

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I've heard that yeast infections are super hard to wipe out, you can treat it but they might catch it again right after treatment because of how easily contagious it is from toys, bowls, and cage liners. Just a thought--another gram stain might not hurt.

My vet does a lot of homeopathic medicine, but they didn't suggest any supplements for the watery poops--I think we just kind of concluded that she was drinking too much, and therefore her poops had higher urine content. My vet suggested that some birds will drink more when stressed, and Bitty was a perpetually stressed soul, bless her heart.
 

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