potential jealousy problems

[casaloco]

I got 'Jenna' my YC amazon 2 weeks ago today. i'm glad to say she has bonded with me very well, she is getting on very well with her flying/landing. we had a lovely 2 hours cuddle and play sat on my bed yesterday while the house was quiet.

we have had a bit of a problem this morning, Jenna bit my 5 year old son Zak on the arm (luckily no blood) as he came near me. i put her in her cage for a few minutes. when i brought her out again i got Zak to give her a peanut, but when she dropped it, she sunk her beak into my finger (lots of blood), i think she was going for Zaks hand.. Zak is a calm, quiet boy who handles a cockatiel and Ring-neck parrot.

Now i dont want to make any mistakes and ruin this bird, so can anyone offer any ideas and advice on how i can get her to bond better with my son.

kind regards
Terrie

 

[henpecked]

Get you out of the picture more.Too much Mommy only time. Someone else needs to spend time with the bird when your not around. 2 hours of cuddle time is too much at one time for a new bird that you want to socialize. Jenna gets all the attention she wants from you, why would she need anyone else? Don't "smother" a new zon with too much attention from one person. Spread the lovin around.

 

[casaloco]

good points. obviously Zak is now afraid of getting any where near her, i have suggested he feeds her her veggies every morning. but what else can he do with her without getting too close.

I had 3 older girls come over yesterday to help with something and Jenna sat on 1 of them with no problem. My eldest son (21) can hold her but he is only here on sundays, My partner speaks to her but she just ignores him, she seems to like my smallest son (nearly 4) but now i'm a bit afraid of her biting him.

her cage is in my living room where i work all morning. if i move rooms she flies to follow me sometimes.

i was thinking about getting a low play stand for her to go in the boys room as she likes watching their TV. and its where zak will be doing his schooling from next week, maybe she will learn her ABC's.

i have heard that males bond more with females and visa versa, is this true?

 

[henpecked]

IMO, the male ,female thing is rubbish. Female human seem to get along better at first,but i think it's because of the higher pitched voice is more appealling. Sometimes kids are too active ,quick moving, unpredictable and birds shy away from that. Other birds love the loud ,rowdy atmosphere. If the bird seems to prefer you then try to stay out of the picture when others are interacting. can Zak read to her,sing songs, offer favorite treats that no one else can give ? You need to avoid her feeling like she dominates Zak or he'll never gain status in her eyes. He needs to learn to "read" her and avoid bites and situations that bring it on. If she's not lunging at him when in her cage then it should be an easier fix with you not coming between them. Tell Zak to be cautious but not afraid, if she says NO with her actions then respect that and then act like she's missing out on something really fun.At this point and time she's still trying to find her place in the new flock and the higher at the top of the pecking order is where she's aiming. She has no problem with not being the leader but nature's way is for her to test things so that the strongest bird leads the flock.

 

[melissasparrots]

I think 5 years old is pretty young to be trusting a bird that size with little hands. I'm not sure I'd let even my perfect bird(female yellow nape) be held by someone else's small child. What you're describing is a fairly typical bite situation for an amazon. If I had a child, I would not be trying to get them to physically interact unless it was extremely obvious that the bird was in a very calm mood(no eye pinning or tail flaring) and that it had a history of being friendly around kids. On the same note, I would not let it get to me if my bird wanted to eat my child. That sort of behavior goes with the territory of bringing home a non-domesticated pet. You can't turn it into a puppy where it loves everyone and will be trustworthy with everyone. If you want that, I'd say get a dog.

Otherwise, I'd give her a break from your son for a while. Let her get the recent interaction out of her head. Then maybe once in a while while she's showing very calm body language, let your son approach and drop a treat in her bowl and maybe stand nearby and talk to her. Not giving the treat to her directly because that puts him in range for a bite and all the resentment, pain and protective mommy feelings that go with it. IMO expecting an amazon to behave nicely around kids and getting all upset when it doesn't is a recipe for someone rehoming their amazon when it doesn't live up to their lofty expectations. Before I sell one of my baby amazons, I make sure if the person has kids or other people in the house, that they have realistic expectations about what life is likely to be like. They bond strongly with thier people and sometimes less favored people can make progress toward a civil(although not usually super affectionate relationship.) However that is adults. I would not risk my childs fingers or face the way an adult might when handling a large bird with sketchy intentions. The odd amazon will take a major shine toward children, but far more often they'd rather the kid stay away from the bird itself and the bird's favorite person. If I were you, I would be very careful about holding this bird when your son or other people that might be percieved as competition are around. The bird is likely to bite you first because your available and then if the other person is range, they will get them to. I handle my more aggressive amazons when my house is calm, my other pets are sleeping or in their cages and I know that no one else is going to come walking and set off that aggressive response so many amazons have.

 

[Jottlebot]

Hi,

Very new to this myself, but I have read that when a parrot is bonded to a person and thinks of them as their mate they can hurt them or bite them if someone else comes close while the bird and their mate are together. They do this so that the mate flies off and does not get the opportunity to notice this new bird and be tempted to cheat on them!...The article might not have said "cheat on", I think that's a bit human...I know you felt your parrot was trying to get to your son and you got in the way, but I wonder if there was a bit of this going on?

 

[henpecked]

hey Jottlebot, welcome to the forum. They would bite their perch,cage bars or anything close by if they couldn't get to what they wanted to bite. If they happen to be on your arm, it's your arm that get's bit, just cause it there, nothing more to it than that.

 

[Gshepdog]

Henpecked and Melissasparrots, I think you gave the correct answers.

My son is now 13 years old and starting to work with the new parrrot. My older parrot is too shy and won't accept anyone but me. My son is filling their food bowls and water bowls. He is hesitant to hand them a treat. They won't take a treat from his hand yet. And he has been around one of these birds for years. It will take patience and he has been very good about trying to build their trust of him.

Lee

 

[headfeathermistress]

I would not let him near the bird. No reason for there to be a chance for your son to be bitten again. He could put a treat in the bowl if the bird is locked in the cage and on the other side of the cage. Your child's safety is of utmost importance!

 

[henpecked]

Henpecked and Melissasparrots, I think you gave the correct answers.

My son is now 13 years old and starting to work with the new parrrot. My older parrot is too shy and won't accept anyone but me. My son is filling their food bowls and water bowls. He is hesitant to hand them a treat. They won't take a treat from his hand yet. And he has been around one of these birds for years. It will take patience and he has been very good about trying to build their trust of him.

Lee

Hey lee, that melissa is golden, she and i think alike. She's great for remembering things i forget. That and a house full of hen amazons will train you quick.

 

[casaloco]

thank you all for the replies, they are duly noted. I may seem like a bit of an idiot asking silly questions, but i would rather that i got information on a species i am new to, from the people with first hand knowledge, than just rely on the research i have done on the internet.

can i please state that Zak was not intentionally handling the bird when he was bitten, i was sat with her and he came and stood beside me. (which is obviously a situation we will now avoid), he has also been giving her treats by hand since we got her (now through the bars!!!)

I was thinking on a practical side of things and taking into account the longevity of the Amazons, if anything was to happen to me, Zak is the one in line to look after her. ( you wouldnt believe the patience he showed to a cage bound (2 yrs) cockatiel, who was frightened of everything)

i am now a bit confused, do i try and increase his status with her or keep him away from her? as both have been mentioned.

kind regards
Terrie

 

[henpecked]

I guess the jist of that is, a child that age needs to be supervised when around the bird, BUT the closer, more involved, you are the greater the risk of getting bit. At least until the bird accepts more people and not just you. All of this will take time and patience ,it's great your willing to do it.

 

[melissasparrots]

No need to feel like an idiot. Big birds are a different world than little ones. I think you can foster a relationship while keeping everyone safe. I would not try to keep them apart completely. She needs to be socialized to accept having him around. I would just have him start out putting treats in her bowl and talking to her. If that goes well for a period of several weeks with no growling, lunging at cage bars or other aggressive behavior, you might be able to move up to having him give her large treats where the size of the treat keeps his fingers from getting in easy range.

Be careful when allowing him near. You might be able to experiment, first just having him across the room while she's out. Then moving closer. See what she can handle. You might find there is a certain distance he can get to without having an aggressive response. For now, I would not have any major plans of sitting on the couch together having family time with the bird and the kid near you. That is just asking for trouble.

If as time goes on, she settles in a little more, you learn her moods and what things set her off, you might be able to do some very structured handling. Possibly in neutral territory(a room away from her cage that she isn't used to being in) and only for a few moments to step up, maybe get a treat and then put back down. You will really have to just watch your bird and see what she allows. Some spicy little hens will start getting nasty just having him in the same room. For other birds its more of a defensive thing and as long as he doesn't get close its not a problem. It may also just be that she needs time to learn about kids and get used to having your son around. I have very laid back female amazons that could probably do okay with brief handling from familiar kids. I also have female amazons that no way would I let a kid within 6 feet of them. All of those birds are great with their favorite person. They get a little sketchy when the activity level in the house goes up, or there is a lot of noise or stimulation in general, or another person or pet gets too close. Then they bite first, think later.

 

[casaloco]

thanks for the replies.

my eldest son always wanted a parrot and only now after 10 years and now that i work from home i felt it was the right time, as i will have the time to put into her.

Jenna is now 18 weeks old, she doesn't show any aggressive behavior when the boys are near her cage. thats why it threw me when she just leaned over and bit Zak. all animals usually take to Zak. I'm glad to say that Zak has shook off the incident and treats Jenna like nothing has happened. i thinks he's learnt from getting his time outs, once over, all is forgiven,

my youngest Laszlo is the hyper one and i limit his interaction with her (as NO animals seem to like him!!! apart from my dogs) but she seems to like him. probably because he's squeeky.

I am trying to come up with a schedule where everyone does a job for her every day. so far i've come up with,

Zak, uncovers her in the morning and gives her her veggies,
I do her water and clean her cage, when the boys go out to play we do 10 minutes of training time, then she has free time out of her cage.
Laszlo puts her small seed in in at lunch time, before nap. (her cage is the type where the food bowls go in through little doors)
Adrian covers her up before bed (as i'm usually out working at bedtime)

Does this sound like too much for her to cope with?

 

[henpecked]

I'm the guy who preaches , early socialization is the key to a well behaved amazon. Anything you can do to involve the family is great. The effort you put in now will pay huge dividends later. Good job.

 

[KBEquine]

Henpecked & Melissa are generally my go-tos on parrot questions. I just want to offer a quick story about my late great Pionus, Beaker.

He was a one-person parrot. In his prior house, he loved the woman, hated the man, and at first, hated (and bit) the child. However Beaker lived to eat & green grapes were one of his all-time favorites. So the son always had grapes on him & would offer them (supervised) to Beaker, who learned to associate the toddler with food. They two became great friends and I have pictures of them at the little boy's play table, sharing a breakfast of Cheerios and fruit.

It might be at first, you want to use some of the training time, getting the parrot used to taking treats off the end of a wooden spoon? Maybe eventually the kids can "help" train & safely offer treats from afar?

Our cockatoo is settling in slowly, but learned that the wooden spoon was a treat-machine awful darned quick!

 

[casaloco]

great info thanks, will have to get a wooden spoon

my 21 year old came home for sunday night and Jenna went straight to him, i thought that was surprising as she hasnt seen him for a week.

I have decided to get her DNA sex tested so we know for sure.