Problem with Gus's beak?

[Kentuckienne]

Gus snaps his beak against the flat metal of his cage top. Makes a snapping sound. He already chipped his lower beak bad - big U shaped notch so the vet trimmed the two fragile "horns" off, leaving it pretty short. But look what he's doing. I think it's from the snapping. The outside layer is chipping off. Is there a way to reinforce it? I don't know how to make him not snap it without making him stay on off the top...and that's the only place he wants to be. These are the best pictures I could get - he hates the iPad. What would you do?

 

[Flboy]

Wow, of zero help, but same issue with a human nail biter!

 

[SailBoat]

There is a dental material (kind of like an epoxy) that can be applied that will create a stable bridge. That bridge will allow the Beak to grow under it while Gus is practicing different methods of removing the bars from the cage top.

 

[Kentuckienne]

It's not even the bars - the top is a flat metal pan. He puts his beak down on the surface and snaps his beak shut making a big noise. And sometimes when he's ripping up paper he snaps the base up against the inside of the top. Maybe I'll email the vet with the photos and see what he thinks about the dental stuff. Thanks for the tip.

 

[SailBoat]

It's not even the bars - the top is a flat metal pan. He puts his beak down on the surface and snaps his beak shut making a big noise. And sometimes when he's ripping up paper he snaps the base up against the inside of the top. Maybe I'll email the vet with the photos and see what he thinks about the dental stuff. Thanks for the tip.

My mind is slow tonight, I'm not seeing what you are describing. He is snapping his beak 'against' the flat surface or setting an edge between the upper and the lower? It really doesn't matter, the bridging material works regardless of what he is doing. If you Vet needs more information let me know by PM.

 

[wrench13]

I see the chips, but I would hesitate in removing any material. After all it does not grow on trees!

 

[Kentuckienne]

No, he's had enough removed already. I just don't know if it can wait for his checkup in June, or if it should be reinforced right away.

 

[plumsmum2005]

I think I would explore with your AV to see if there are any dietary deficiencies which could be making his beak a little less strong than it should be thus prone to damage. May be worth exploring B Vitamins especially. It is clearly bothering you so make that appointment.

Would some thick cardboard be better than paper for him to rip through? Maybe line the cage top with it also as some protection? There are usually cardboard manufacturers in most towns with industry.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I think I would explore with your AV to see if there are any dietary deficiencies which could be making his beak a little less strong than it should be thus prone to damage. May be worth exploring B Vitamins especially. It is clearly bothering you so make that appointment.

Would some thick cardboard be better than paper for him to rip through? Maybe line the cage top with it also as some protection? There are usually cardboard manufacturers in most towns with industry.

BRILLIANT! I never though of lining the cage top with cardboard! That would cushion it...it would be warmer than the cold metal...he never poops up there so it would be easy to keep clean...I'm ON it! Thank you!

What would I do without Parrotforums?

 

[Scott]

Great idea, K!!!

It may be Gus enjoys either the tapping sound or coldness of the metal to the detriment of his beak.

 

[Kentuckienne]

What a massive undertaking....I decided to clean the cage well and clear off the old paper scraps from the top. He didn't mind the cleaning too much, but he didn't like the paper theft. I swept up a garbage bag full of shreds. Kindling. But you know, in all that shredded paper an all the paper lining the inside of his cage there was no poop. I thought maybe he wouldn't poop in the cage because he hasn't been in it, but there's no poop on the top or off the sides. Maybe one on the papers on the floor in front. He seems to hold it for the perch across the room. That can't be healthy. Need something near he's cache he can go over to maybe. Maybe it's from living eight years with a steadily growing pile of parrot crap creeping up toward him...now he doesn't want to go in the cage if he can help it.

Anyway, since he doesn't poop on top I lined it with a piece of bookbinder's board. Way too expensive but it's all I have that's clean. He doesn't poop or eat messy food so it should last, and I'll find some corrugated board to put on top of that. He hated the installation! I had to fend him off with a half-chewed shoebox to do a final sweep and get it in. Gave him his chewed box back, he was still mad, gave him a cashew which seemed to help, gave him some phone book and he's working on that. Seems all is mostly forgiven. He's making the same snapping sound even with the cardboard. He must be snapping the lower beak against the inside of the upper, like someone snapping their fingers.

Next step will be to consult about the beak, see if he's lacking some nutrients. They are mostly keratin, right? Cant do anything about his bone structure but beaks grow all the time and there must be something to strengthen them.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Great idea, K!!!

It may be Gus enjoys either the tapping sound or coldness of the metal to the detriment of his beak.

Thanks Scott
Plum enjoys bashing his beak on metal, brick or tiles but it does not have an effect on his beaks condition.

 

[plumsmum2005]

Great idea, K!!!

It may be Gus enjoys either the tapping sound or coldness of the metal to the detriment of his beak.

What a massive undertaking....I decided to clean the cage well and clear off the old paper scraps from the top. He didn't mind the cleaning too much, but he didn't like the paper theft. I swept up a garbage bag full of shreds. Kindling. But you know, in all that shredded paper an all the paper lining the inside of his cage there was no poop. I thought maybe he wouldn't poop in the cage because he hasn't been in it, but there's no poop on the top or off the sides. Maybe one on the papers on the floor in front. He seems to hold it for the perch across the room. That can't be healthy. Need something near he's cache he can go over to maybe. Maybe it's from living eight years with a steadily growing pile of parrot crap creeping up toward him...now he doesn't want to go in the cage if he can help it.

Anyway, since he doesn't poop on top I lined it with a piece of bookbinder's board. Way too expensive but it's all I have that's clean. He doesn't poop or eat messy food so it should last, and I'll find some corrugated board to put on top of that. He hated the installation! I had to fend him off with a half-chewed shoebox to do a final sweep and get it in. Gave him his chewed box back, he was still mad, gave him a cashew which seemed to help, gave him some phone book and he's working on that. Seems all is mostly forgiven. He's making the same snapping sound even with the cardboard. He must be snapping the lower beak against the inside of the upper, like someone snapping their fingers.

Next step will be to consult about the beak, see if he's lacking some nutrients. They are mostly keratin, right? Cant do anything about his bone structure but beaks grow all the time and there must be something to strengthen them.

I think this is cause enough to ask for a blood test whilst at the AV's, take the guesswork away. Gus is lovely btw.

 

[SailBoat]

It's not even the bars - the top is a flat metal pan. He puts his beak down on the surface and snaps his beak shut making a big noise. And sometimes when he's ripping up paper he snaps the base up against the inside of the top. Maybe I'll email the vet with the photos and see what he thinks about the dental stuff. Thanks for the tip.

My mind is slow tonight, I'm not seeing what you are describing. He is snapping his beak 'against' the flat surface or setting an edge between the upper and the lower? It really doesn't matter, the bridging material works regardless of what he is doing. If you Vet needs more information let me know by PM.

Your latest Post made it through the fog and I think I understand what he is doing to cause that kind of carnage. It also makes sense from the stand point of a line of force, which line-up with the damage to the upper Beak. Interesting, leaves one to wonder if he is enjoying the vibration, sound, or both. Regardless, as he regaining his strength, he is likely creating increased force, which would explain why you are seeing this develop into physical damage.

The blood tests make sense to get a picture of his health and the needed energy to rebuild the Beak. And, what if any supplements he may need.

Your 100% correct: "They are mostly keratin, right?"

 

[Kentuckienne]

Your latest Post made it through the fog and I think I understand what he is doing to cause that kind of carnage. It also makes sense from the stand point of a line of force, which line-up with the damage to the upper Beak. Interesting, leaves one to wonder if he is enjoying the vibration, sound, or both. Regardless, as he regaining his strength, he is likely creating increased force, which would explain why you are seeing this develop into physical damage.

The blood tests make sense to get a picture of his health and the needed energy to rebuild the Beak. And, what if any supplements he may need.

Your 100% correct: "They are mostly keratin, right?"

It's true, he is getting stronger. When he first came it was a labor for him to climb from the food perch to the top of the cage, like eight inches. Now he's up and down, climbs the ladder on top to food bowls, doesn't fall off the perches any more (knock on wood). Maybe it was a habit he began while confined, perhaps there was nothing else to chew on. He still doesn't chew wood. There's a wood toy on his cage top and all he does is shake the plastic chain. He does chew paper and cardboard, so maybe he will keep getting stronger there, too.

But you know...I moved his bell because he was swinging it so hard he'd hit himself in the head with it and I was afraid he'd hurt himself. But maybe it is the loud noise he likes...I'll put it back up there somewhere and see if he makes noise with it, and if the beak snapping stops. Good idea, that didn't occur to me...

He'll get all the blood tests when he goes, first week of June is his 6-month checkup. In the mean time I'll research what kind of food is good for hair and nails and see if he'll eat any of it.

 

[SilleIN]

To me Gus's beak looks like a untended beak in the process of being shaped to its "correct" shape. The flakes is due to the previous lack of vitamins and minerals in his former food.

Gus's beak looks very much like Tino's at the moment. The lower beak flakes due to the poor quality of the beak. The upper beak is slowly being worn to the optimal shape.

The snapping sound is his lower beak working at the edge on his upper beak. Once this edge is worn, the outer edge of the upper beak needs to be snapped of, which they usually do on stuff, where they can stick the end of the beak in some place and chew down hard to work at the unneeded edge.

I wouldn't be too worried. Just be sure Gus gets the vitamins and minerals he needs. I give Tino extra vitamins and minerals as he has to build up his levels to ensure healthy beak and feathers (both were in very poor shape, when I got him)

 

[plumsmum2005]

I have a question relating to the fact that Gus likes to feel vibrations through his beak and the bell bashing, how well does he hear? Goodness only knows how you test a parrot but maybe something to think about or ask you AV next visit?

 

[Kentuckienne]

To me Gus's beak looks like a untended beak in the process of being shaped to its "correct" shape. The flakes is due to the previous lack of vitamins and minerals in his former food.

Gus's beak looks very much like Tino's at the moment. The lower beak flakes due to the poor quality of the beak. The upper beak is slowly being worn to the optimal shape.

The snapping sound is his lower beak working at the edge on his upper beak. Once this edge is worn, the outer edge of the upper beak needs to be snapped of, which they usually do on stuff, where they can stick the end of the beak in some place and chew down hard to work at the unneeded edge.

I wouldn't be too worried. Just be sure Gus gets the vitamins and minerals he needs. I give Tino extra vitamins and minerals as he has to build up his levels to ensure healthy beak and feathers (both were in very poor shape, when I got him)

I forgot about time - that the beak reflects conditions at the time it was being formed. The part near his body does look better, so maybe it will grow out. Do you know how fast a macaw beak grows?

Gus is picky with food. He was on Harrison's at the rescuer's, then the rescue switched him to Roudybush, then his human fed him colored zupreem, then I got him some zupreem naturals. He has eaten them all, in fact he prefers them to veggies and most foods. I bought some Harrison's with pepper which is what his first rescuer (who works at the vet) says he ate and as soon as he finishes the last of the supreme he can start having that. What kind of supplements do you give Tino? I read that in humans, iron deficiency can cause peeling nails and biotin, a B vitamin, can strengthen hair and nails in humans so maybe it's good for hair and feathers.

Thanks for the explanation of what he's doing, it fits with what I observe.

 

[Kentuckienne]

I have a question relating to the fact that Gus likes to feel vibrations through his beak and the bell bashing, how well does he hear? Goodness only knows how you test a parrot but maybe something to think about or ask you AV next visit?

Good question...he seems to hear normal sounds. But he's very inactive for a big macaw, he sits up there like Snoopy pretending to be a vulture on his dog house. I can't know, but I theorize that if he was neglected in a cage, he may have only had toys that were indestructible. Maybe bashing them was a release, maybe having one now brings up a memory of that time and the memory of frustration, maybe it's like Rickeybird with the demon ball - he sees it a a threat because it makes a noise, who knows? I don't know if deafness is associated with the nutritional deficiencies that caused the rickets, oh Mr. Google...yes, there is a connection, the bones in the human ear can become demineralized but it improves with better nutrition. Gus can hear me say "want a nut?" in a normal voice across the room, but he might still have some degree of hearing loss. Interesting to speculate but difficult to test..

 

[SailBoat]

Regarding hearing. I would think that coming up behind him at different levels and distances of announcement would indicate how far away and how loud. I have not seen a references to that subject. With my Amazons, it tends to be more an issue of whether they are out in the AmaZone (sleeping with their eyes open), sleeping or just no interested in you at the moment. So it can takes months to determine if they have a hearing problem.

Beak grown with Amazon's can be between 1 & 3 mm per month, but heavily dependent on diet, health and availability of working stones, perches, etc...